Senao - EnGenius ESR-9855G

[tipstir]

They're getting ready to release the ESR-9855G it's already out in Asian, I guess soon it's going to be release in USA.


CPU - Ubicom IP7K
RF - RT2860+RT2820 (11N 2X3)
Transmitter Power - 100mW
ANT - 3dBi External x 2 + PIFA x 1
AP / Router / WDS / Repeater

JR Music World in NYC has it posted already for $99 bucks. After Tim does a review which I hope he does and if it's positive one I'll buy one and test it out myself.

http://www.jr.com/engenius/pe/EGN_ESR9855G/

 

[tipstir]

Cpu

IP7K
IP7550 500 MHz 256 PBGA
http://www.ubicom.com/images/multimedia_processors_IP7500_big.png

 

[bigpapae35]

IP7K
IP7550 500 MHz 256 PBGA
http://www.ubicom.com/images/multimedia_processors_IP7500_big.png

Wow, this should be the mother of all routers, and it will be my next purchase, this Atheros AR9223 is the same wireless chip as the DIR-825 B1 and Netgear WNDR3700, but it will have the new Ubicom ip7k 500mhz chip. I cannot wait till this gets reviewed. This is the combo I have been waiting patiently for, Ubicom and atheros chips!!!!!

Tipstir,
the engenius datasheet show its going to be an Atheros AR9223 chip, not the RT2860, the jr website has the wrong info.

Ideally this would have been a three stream 450Mbps device, but I am not holding my breath for it.

http://www.engeniustech.com/resources/05_ESR-9855G%20DataSheet_lwrs.pdf

 

[tipstir]

Wow, this should be the mother of all routers, and it will be my next purchase, this Atheros AR9223 is the same wireless chip as the DIR-825 B1 and Netgear WNDR3700, but it will have the new Ubicom ip7k 500mhz chip. I cannot wait till this gets reviewed. This is the combo I have been waiting patiently for, Ubicom and atheros chips!!!!!

Tipstir,
the engenius datasheet show its going to be an Atheros AR9223 chip, not the RT2860, the jr website has the wrong info.

Ideally this would have been a three stream 450Mbps device, but I am not holding my breath for it.

http://www.engeniustech.com/resources/05_ESR-9855G%20DataSheet_lwrs.pdf

Data sheet on the second page reads subject to changes. My info came from Senao. But I've contacted them for more info about the processor, RAM an etc..

 

[tipstir]

It's Out!

Senao EnGenius email lll

As for ESR9855G, it is now in the market. You can buy from TigerDirect, Buy.com, J&R, and etc.

Thank you for your inputs.

Of course I can't find it. I've told them that? I should get answer tomorrow?
I would still wait for Tim to test.

 

[jemz0r]

Ubicom IP7K CPU 500Mhz with StreamEngine
4MB Flash
32MB SDRAM
AR9223 2T2R 300Mbps b/g/n Wireless Module
2x 3dBi dipole antenna

18dBm + 3dBi = ~~21dB EIRP
so slightly over 100mW RF power.

Very similar hardware to DIR-655 B1

But it does not have Hardware NAT engine that is on the ESR9850.

 

[bigpapae35]

Ubicom IP7K CPU 500Mhz with StreamEngine
4MB Flash
32MB SDRAM
AR9223 2T2R 300Mbps b/g/n Wireless Module
2x 3dBi dipole antenna

18dBm + 3dBi = ~~21dB EIRP
so slightly over 100mW RF power.

Very similar hardware to DIR-655 B1

But it does not have Hardware NAT engine that is on the ESR9850.

Im not sure what you mean by hardware nat engine (isn't this a variable based on the performance of the cpu?)

Cause the three year old ubicom ip5160 clocked at 275mhz handled more connections than the ESR9850, so I have little doubt that the new ubicom ip7k clocked at 500mhz will not hit the 40,000 max connection limit of the matrix21 test.

Plus the power of this ubicom chip should help push the throughput of the ar9223 better than the netgear WNDR3700 cpu could.

 

[jemz0r]

Hardware NAT engine on the ESR9850 is responsible for the blazing fast WAN to LAN throughput, not the session count.

Disable the Hardware NAT engine on 9850, and use software NAT and it'll drop down to 200~400Mbps. Software NAT is required for the connection monitor and QoS as those functions needs software to inspect the packets as it passes through (WAN to LAN). This explains the difference between FW 1.0.9 and 1.1.0. 1.1.0, H/W NAT is enabled by default. 1.0.9, user needs to manually enable it to achieve the high speed routing.

Anyways, back onto the ESR9855G. There is no Hardware NAT engine so WAN to LAN will be around 300~400Mbps. The advantage of the Ubicom CPU is the StreamEngine QoS. It prioritizes Gaming, VoIP and Media traffic (in that order) automatically so your downloading will not disrupt the time sensitive data. Hence the marketing as a "Gaming" router. You don't want your Counter Strike or Quake to suddenly lag when your wife starts to watch YouTube.

 

[bigpapae35]

You don't want your Counter Strike or Quake to suddenly lag when your wife starts to watch YouTube.

cool, thanks for explaining that to me, im not even sure if qos applies to me, I have a 35/35 connection from fios, and I just want a router that can handle more connections for torrents.

The only other thing I do on my network is stream 1080p mkv's using ps3mediaserver over wireless n from my laptop (Intel 5300) with a gigabit connection to the ps3 without any hiccups. My little brother does some light XBL gaming, but he never complained about lag.

I have been using a DIR-655 A2, and I have been waiting for an upgrade to the ubicom chipset for years now.

 

[tipstir]

Hardware Network Engine is good for WAN to LAN but from LAN to LAN it starts to bog down. Not has as fast as Belkin N+ LAN to LAN throughput. I've started measuring both here again. Something is not right in though-put. Firmware 1.09 and firmware 1.10 still a bug in both. But as for this ESR-9855G replace the prior 300,000 session Game Router they only sold over seas. But again these extra sessions if the ISP is throttle back I not seeing these extra benefits. I am lucky to have a good connection and private P2P site where seeders out way leechers. The video I had made to show how the ESR-9850 and HNE feature perform. I am seeing a different picture these last couple of days though.

Anyway VPN issues, wireless signal not as strong as I wish and network media boxes not turning off. I know I can stress routers to the max but they should stand-up more. Will the ESR-9855G do any better than ESR-9855G?

But this ESR-9855G again they drop the HNE feature for QOS hardware Stream Engine. You can't have both features. So you got to choose which router to buy.

Senao EnGenius reports another week before the ESR-9855G shows up.

 

[tipstir]

Hardware NAT engine on the ESR9850 is responsible for the blazing fast WAN to LAN throughput, not the session count.

Disable the Hardware NAT engine on 9850, and use software NAT and it'll drop down to 200~400Mbps. Software NAT is required for the connection monitor and QoS as those functions needs software to inspect the packets as it passes through (WAN to LAN). This explains the difference between FW 1.0.9 and 1.1.0. 1.1.0, H/W NAT is enabled by default. 1.0.9, user needs to manually enable it to achieve the high speed routing.

Anyways, back onto the ESR9855G. There is no Hardware NAT engine so WAN to LAN will be around 300~400Mbps. The advantage of the Ubicom CPU is the StreamEngine QoS. It prioritizes Gaming, VoIP and Media traffic (in that order) automatically so your downloading will not disrupt the time sensitive data. Hence the marketing as a "Gaming" router. You don't want your Counter Strike or Quake to suddenly lag when your wife starts to watch YouTube.

NAT in these router is hardware based. Code in firmware gets stored on chips. I how to you get software NAT. Smart NAT is for P2P, Hardware Network Engine HNE is for WAN to LAN, LAN to LAN and LAN to WAN. Under firmware 1.09 that HNE is not enabled. Under 1.10 it's enabled. Spike Burst in speed. But with all spikes it can bog down. I was wondering while and sure enough the unit is starting to get warm to the touch. Since the Realtek Gig Controller doesn't have heatsink. Heat will degrade performance.

 

[bigpapae35]

Hardware Network Engine is good for WAN to LAN but from LAN to LAN it starts to bog down. Not has as fast as Belkin N+ LAN to LAN throughput. I've started measuring both here again. Something is not right in though-put. Firmware 1.09 and firmware 1.10 still a bug in both. But as for this ESR-9855G replace the prior 300,000 session Game Router they only sold over seas. But again these extra sessions if the ISP is throttle back I not seeing these extra benefits. I am lucky to have a good connection and private P2P site where seeders out way leechers. The video I had made to show how the ESR-9850 and HNE feature perform. I am seeing a different picture these last couple of days though.

I am not really worrying that much about wan to lan, there are no major consumer isp's offering 600-700mbps anyways. I think less than 1% of consumers will care about HNE. More concurrent sessions, maximum wireless throughput and range and smarter qos have much more importance imho.

 

[tipstir]

I am not really worrying that much about wan to lan, there are no major consumer isp's offering 600-700mbps anyways. I think less than 1% of consumers will care about HNE. More concurrent sessions, maximum wireless throughput and range and smarter qos have much more importance imho.

I personally don't use QOS features just leave it alone in DIR-655, ESR-9850 disabled. HNE good selling point though it's feature they offer. Not norm. USA Government it cracking down on P2P so all these extra concurrent sessions not going to be a real deal for most. Though you never know. My WAN is close to 50mbps still 10/100 router is more than enough for that. 10/100/1000 selling point is LAN to LAN transfers. Router should be quick to connect to other LAN systems. There shouldn't be any delay on PCI-E Dual Direction Gig compared to a Signal direction PCI Gig. HNE just a boost in throughput. It does work, but my concerns is LAN to LAN starting to Bog.

My Documents it kept on a server. Prior with Belkin N+ it could connect quick.
Now under ESR-9850 it takes time to connect and that's with HNE enabled.

 

[jemz0r]

NAT = Network Address Translation
It is routing WAN to LAN or WAN to LAN.

There is no NAT for LAN to LAN so the HNE has no relation here.

The HNE engine on the ESR9850 is done by the "Hardware' so it is done by the RT3052 CPU.

The Ubicom IP7k CPU does not feature Hardware NAT at this time.

Also, P2P such as BitTorrent is not really a very good test of WAN to LAN as variables in the seeds/peers and changes in the Internet links can affect the test results.

 

[tipstir]

NAT = Network Address Translation
It is routing WAN to LAN or WAN to LAN.

There is no NAT for LAN to LAN so the HNE has no relation here.

The HNE engine on the ESR9850 is done by the "Hardware' so it is done by the RT3052 CPU.

The Ubicom IP7k CPU does not feature Hardware NAT at this time.

Also, P2P such as BitTorrent is not really a very good test of WAN to LAN as variables in the seeds/peers and changes in the Internet links can affect the test results.

NAT is for WAN to LAN no telling it other wise. Still HNE has to be additional feature on the Router. Then if that's the case then Buffalo WZR-300N, Belkin N+ V2 an etc.. that uses such a chipset would also have this HNE. But isn't a feature offered by Senao on their PCB. Just can't be a embedded feature on the SoC. P2P is also one of the feature perks on the ESR-9850 with 19000 sessions. Seeders can be 400 and leecher can be 1 still there are other factors at work to give you overhaul through-put in MB/s With the ESR-9850 P2P downloading starts out faster than other routers. I've tested them all listed below. The best one out of the bunch was WZR2-300N that didn't have 10/100/1000mbps it was 802.11n with 10/100 ports. Still I was able to manage 3.63mb/s out of that Marvel NPU rated at 500MHz. Really fast throughput. ESR-9850 I was able to reach 3.39mb/s. There is video showing it.

Anyway most users will buy the ESR-9850 for HNE, P2P and LAN to LAN to WAN to LAN throughput out the 10/100/1000mbps is not restrictive as the other brands. That's another selling point for Senao EnGenius.

Even though I got my ESR-9850 the second one has hardwired AP, I also figured out had to use HNE in AP mode which is usually disabled. Actually I am on that AP right now typing this out. Testing it with 4 AP active here. The 5th would be the other ESR-9850. That I'll keep out of the testing.

I need to solve some issues with ESR-9850 used as DHCP Server. Taking way to long to open RDP connection, my server docs, dwl, and image builds. Under the Belkin N+ with the most current firmware it opens quick.

So LAN to LAN transfers have slowed down on wired and wireless, VPN on the ALG layer is not working drops the signal causes disconnections on Cisco VPN client v5.xx Latest one.

My network media players 5 of them have issues disconnecting from the ESR-9850. Power light won't shutdown. Issue is gone when using Belkin N+ as DHCP. Belkin I have uses RT2880/RT2800 chipsets on the wireless it's 16kb/16kb I/D where as the ESR-9850 it's 32kb/16kb.

ESR-9855 prior had 3 ANT, I did post that a while back. But the ESR-9855G has caught my eye, but I don't think going to be as good as the ESR-9850. For Senao to drop some features to make it more QOS friendly than ESR-9850 was.

 

[jemz0r]

As mentioned, there are many routers in the market using the Ralink RT3052 as the CPU.

However, Senao is the only maker to be able to modify the SDK code to tune the performance and stability of the H/W NAT Engine.

It seems no other maker has achieved it yet.

 

[bigpapae35]

. I've tested them all listed below. The best one out of the bunch was WZR2-300N that didn't have 10/100/1000mbps it was 802.11n with 10/100 ports. Still I was able to manage 3.63mb/s out of that Marvel NPU rated at 500MHz. Really fast throughput. ESR-9850 I was able to reach 3.39mb/s. There is video showing it..

maybe you are limited by your connection, because my DIR-655 A2 1.11 easily maxes my connection with torrent with 4.35MB/s up and down simultaneously for a total of 8.7MB/s of throughput. My only issue is that while my upload ratchets up to that number super quickly, the download will take longer to get there. But I have not tried it on a torrent that has more seeders than leachers.

 

[tipstir]

maybe you are limited by your connection, because my DIR-655 A2 1.11 easily maxes my connection with torrent with 4.35MB/s up and down simultaneously for a total of 8.7MB/s of throughput. My only issue is that while my upload ratchets up to that number super quickly, the download will take longer to get there. But I have not tried it on a torrent that has more seeders than leachers.

Never seen the DIR-655 A3 1.11 give no more than 2.63MB/s. No I am not limited nothing has changed except Router, Switches and new download speeds.

Prior plan: Cable 15mb down 1mb up / current plan 25mb down & 2mb up
Prior and current plans now have power boost just a kick in the bucket. Max down was 47mb on the Belkin N+, 43mb on DIR-655. Most I can get out of ESR-9855 was 30mb. Wireless max out 27mb.

Video that I had made wasn't directly on the P2P System it was via LAN to LAN over RDP plus the noise in the backgroup was from CW/FB running. Still managed 3.39mb/s not bad.

Issues with ESR-9850 are LAN to LAN base. Belkin N+ LAN to LAN no issues.
Everything is setup so I can quickly switch out either router for this test. Frankly I do prefer using ESR-9850 non-block port speed over WAN to LAN and LAN to WAN. I'll keep at it.. I need to get a grip on 802.11n and 802.11g. Right now there is 4 AP runnings 2x each for 802.11n and 2x each for 802.11g.

 

[tipstir]

As mentioned, there are many routers in the market using the Ralink RT3052 as the CPU.

However, Senao is the only maker to be able to modify the SDK code to tune the performance and stability of the H/W NAT Engine.

It seems no other maker has achieved it yet.

That all in one SoC is really be pushed. But you know what ever works and sells the product. I just hope they had really did some Model Testing with UAT before releasing such a feature to the patrons.

So that chip RT3052 has ceramic heat reflect shield. But not on the Realtek Gig Controller. That doesn't make since for Senao to drop off the ceramic heat reflect shield thus this will leave patrons with lousy LAN to LAN to WAN to LAN issues. I've check mine and the cover feels very warm when I task the router but then again media, download, you got surfing, an etc pushing the router to me it's going to choke more.

 

[jemz0r]

So that chip RT3052 has ceramic heat reflect shield. But not on the Realtek Gig Controller. That doesn't make since for Senao to drop off the ceramic heat reflect shield thus this will leave patrons with lousy LAN to LAN to WAN to LAN issues. I've check mine and the cover feels very warm when I task the router but then again media, download, you got surfing, an etc pushing the router to me it's going to choke more.

Not every IC chip needs to have a heatsink.

Could be a design decision based on thermal testing during the engineering sampling stage.