small office network

[mikewelsh]

I have become increasingly frustrated with an old network in our office (12 computers), that has problems and we pay about $5000 a year for remote maintenance of the software. (Windows Server 2003 and Exchange Server)

What I would like to do is replace the computers with new windows 7 machines and have a simple network that is based around a wireless router so we can get internet access for email etc.

File sharing would be done using a large shared external HDD connected to the router.

Initial searching showed the Linksys WRT160NL or the Netgear WNDR3700 as possible candidates, but more detailed reading suggested that accessing the USB drive could have performance issues for more than 1 machine.

The shared documents are mostly Word files and a couple of Access databases.

Any suggestions about how I could achieve this network setup?

Do I need an NAS instead?

Could I connect an NAS to an ethernet port on the router that all the other computers could see?

 

[tipstir]

I have become increasingly frustrated with an old network in our office (12 computers), that has problems and we pay about $5000 a year for remote maintenance of the software. (Windows Server 2003 and Exchange Server)

What I would like to do is replace the computers with new windows 7 machines and have a simple network that is based around a wireless router so we can get internet access for email etc.

File sharing would be done using a large shared external HDD connected to the router.

Initial searching showed the Linksys WRT160NL or the Netgear WNDR3700 as possible candidates, but more detailed reading suggested that accessing the USB drive could have performance issues for more than 1 machine.

The shared documents are mostly Word files and a couple of Access databases.

Any suggestions about how I could achieve this network setup?

Do I need an NAS instead?

Could I connect an NAS to an ethernet port on the router that all the other computers could see?

Your answer to the last question is yes. NAS connections are LAN base.

You should do this in 4 step phases.

Phase #1 Plan Management
Phase #2 Review
Phase #3 Office Model Testing
Phase #4 Implementation

Also what's your projected budget rate.

Gig Router (are you going to do 802.11g or 802.11n)
Server running 2008 Standard or Enterprise
Active Directory (Domain)
24-port Gig Smart or unmanaged Switch
12 new systems with Windows 7 Pro or Enterprise or Ultimate 32 or 64-bit
NAS #1 Files
NAS #2 Exchange (outlook)
NAS #3 Database
NAS #4 Backup

Need to figure out what your company wants to plan and how much are you welling to spend on everything.

VPN access (Remote Access)?

 

[mikewelsh]

Thanks for prompt reply. I think I understand that an NAS can plug into an ethernet port on my router but I do not want to setup a conventional server system, just the 12 computers accessing the internet or the NAS via the router. Will this work?

 

[thiggins]

You can do what you propose. Keep in mind that the file sharing that is built into routers is very basic and not very fast. Note that you can't set up password-protected folders for each user with these devices. For that, you will need to step up to a NAS.

I'd be careful going to all wireless access for your entire office. You might find that things slow down considerably. Don't you already have a wired network in place? If you already have a switch, all you need to do is connect it to one of the LAN ports on the router. The router will take care of sharing Internet access for both wired and wireless clients.

 

[mikewelsh]

Thanks Tim.

Yes we do have a wired network in place. What I was hoping to do was to gradually build a much simpler network in parallel without having to use a server with all the layers of profiles etc. Once the network was operating, using Google/Thunderbird for our email rather than MS Exchange Server and backups using Dropbox on our NAS, we would then switch the wired connections through to our router if possible, so we would then have mixed wired/wireless.
I was hoping it could be as simple as 12 Windows 7 computers all connected wirelessly to a really good router that has say a 1 TB drive connected to a LAN port. Several of the computers would have printers connected to them that they would share. Internet access is mainly required for email send/receive. Remote working on files would be via Dropbox access to the NAS so we would not need VPN tunnels.

Can it be as simple as this? Do I have to have a 'server' to share files and printers and access the Internet for email?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

5k/year for support of 12x PCs? Unless you guys put a lot of demands for hours of weekly support...you're getting killed by whoever does your support.

Before "downgrading" down to basically home network technology, I encourage you to examine your needs and see if you can work around the loss of functionality that active directory and Exchange/Outlook give you.

For a client of mine with an office of 12, I would have a single server in place, running Microsoft Small Business Server. If you use quality server hardware (and workstations and everything else for that matter)..I have clients with networks of your size that I can go for a whole year without having to visit them or do anything.

Not knowing what server hardware you currently have...you might find moving to a NAS box will drop performance substantially for you, if you have several users hitting that access database at the same time...you may have coffee brewing wait times. Running many wireless clients through a single AP may worsen this, as depending on how the access database is coded...it can put a whomping load on your network. 1/2 dozen wireless clients at the same time on it...eh...may find it quite pokey.

My big question though...what the heck is causing so many problems that you're getting support bills in the tune of 5k/year for, for an office so small?

 

[thiggins]

I was hoping it could be as simple as 12 Windows 7 computers all connected wirelessly to a really good router that has say a 1 TB drive connected to a LAN port. Several of the computers would have printers connected to them that they would share. Internet access is mainly required for email send/receive. Remote working on files would be via Dropbox access to the NAS so we would not need VPN tunnels.

Can it be as simple as this? Do I have to have a 'server' to share files and printers and access the Internet for email?

I would not rely on wireless connection. It will be too slow.

StoneCat has a good point about shared database access. If there is heavy usage, a NAS might not keep up. I'd listen to his advice. He's a pro.

 

[mikewelsh]

The support bill is an annual contract for 1 hr response to any problems we may have including any necessary upgrades to server software. So for instance about a year ago we had to upgrade McCafee Enterprise and that then produced a problem with some of our own email addresses not being recognised and messages being quarantined by Outlook.

I suppose whilst I and a colleague are modestly tech savvy, we want to avoid if possible this reliance on an always on/working server and server software.

If we have a problem with a computer it would be nice to just unplug it and plug in another one already cloned with an image and drivers. All the data lives on the NAS drive which is effectively backed up to the 'Cloud' through Dropbox.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

If you don't mind my asking, what type of business?

So you have storage of office docs.....probably some arrangement of folders, possible indexing, etc.

And you mentioned an Access database that's shared.

Exchange..e-mail. Do you utilize Outlook==> Exchange well? Collaboration tools such as public folders, etc.

Are there any other applications, be they stand alone for 1 workstation, or several/all workstations, that are currently hosted on your server? Accounting..Quickbooks, or any contact management software? Or any other LOB apps? (line of business)

Is this Small Business Server by chance? Or just a server or two running Server Standard and Exchange.

 

[mikewelsh]

Hi,

We are running conferences so the staff are mostly processing bookings and preparing conference materials.

We are using Windows Server 2003 for Small Business Server, running on a single HP proliant/ml350 G3 with a 120 Gb disk.

We occasionally use Word, Excel and Powerpoint. All accounting functions are performed 'off-site'.

Email is currently through Exchange server and Outook, though quite happy to move this to the 'Cloud' through GMail or other and have all emails backed up in the Cloud.

The most intensive use though is our bookings databases. These are Access 2000 databases, though they are viewed and edited now in Access 2003. The largest database is 5000 records and about 12Mb in size. All users can simultaneously edit as long as they are in different records.

It will be used simultaneously by up to 10 people. Would the databases work better in a new version of Access and would the format and all the queries etc be backward compatible to 2000/2003?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Ahh OK so it is SBS...that's my bread and butter, it's what I use for most of my clients. Fantastic package...and it has so much value.
*File and print sharing services
*Active directory and infrastructure
*Exchange Server for e-mail/collaboration, and with a unique add-on called the POP3 connector to businesses can wean themselves off of POP3 and migrate to the more professional direct e-mail/vanity e-mail (your domain name)
*Remote Web Workplace portal..a seldom taught feature of SBS, allows you to remote access just about everything you need at your office..web mail, your own workstation remotely (who needs logmein? it's right here built into RWW), Sharepoint Server,
*Shared faxing, paperless faxing services
*Built in backup, don't need 3rd party software
*WSUS (for SBS03r2) to manage your windows updates for workstations on the network

Seems like a good server that it's on...I don't know the hard drive setup...with SBS03 I do 4 gigs of RAM and I do a pair of RAID volumes..the OS installed on a smaller RAID 1 for drive C, and the data, WSUS, plus user folders, plus Exchange Infostore...put on a second RAID volume ..drive D for example, which will technically be a second spindle for greatly increased performance. A lot of people make the mistake of installing SBS all on one big volume...which creates a huge performance loss.

Re: Access databases...a lot of places run the database on old versions, the preferences are all up to whoever maintains that database, does the coding for it. The hit it imposes on the servers drives, as well as the network..that's also up to whoever does the coding for it. Some programmers will have a directory on the workstations local drives..so much of the "crunching" is done on the client side..with just final data being done on the server. A bit more efficient on the network this way.

I love SBS...it's has so much value, so many features. The sad thing is, so many places will have SBS, it's not setup properly, and they're never shown all the features...so to them it's "just some server that sits in the corner"..and they never know about all the features. So they don't appreciate the value of it. For my client that I install SBS at....I take the time to show them all the features, including but not limited to how to utilize public folders in Exchange to share data, collaborate, also Sharepoint...and also the "RWW" portal to access data from the outside, log into your workstation from home, etc. Once clients get hooked on all that..they love it!

Google Apps...yeah, so many features there, and hard to beat the price! BUT..there's just some unease I have about "all your info belong to them!"

 

[mikewelsh]

Hi,

Thanks for all the info on SBS. Many of the features we have never been shown and may not need, but the point is that we need technical support to solve problems like getting a new user setup correctly or support having to enter a new email address in the Mcafee Enterprise so it does not treat as spam.

I just want to plug and go desktops that can share files and printers and access the internet. (I appreciate your concerns about Google knowing everything, but then all the ISPs can look at your emails anyway).

The questions I need answering are:

1) Is there a router that can handle 15 simultaneous wireless connections in a ordinary 5 room two storey house.

2) Are there any speed differences between the various NASs that will make file sharing faster?

3) Is there a way of using Access 2000 databases on this shared NAS that will be most efficient (non-technical description please, or point me to an online resource that explains it)

Many thanks, Mike.

 

[tipstir]

Mike what's the scope of your current network diagram. SBS is good but you might not really need all it's features. What are you using for Mail Server. There are some good third-party with excellent support features for spamming. I've tried IceWarp Mail Server to me better than Exchange Server but then a lot of companies don't want to switch over from Exchange but they can still use Outlook Web or run Outlook client.

You could get Enterprise Router, then use a couple of Wireless Bridges, unless you can't hardwire AP through the building?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Understood re: your concerns....my last pitch....SBS wizards, takes a whole 15 minutes or so to add a new user with SBS, the new user wizard takes care of everything on the servers side in about 45 seconds, and it takes under 5 minutes to setup a workstation. SBS even has a wizard for average joe end users to setup workstations. To me your current consultant is taking advantage of things which are causing you to blame SBS.

I'll bite my tongue regarding McAfee..it's towards the bottom of my list. BUT...as an SMB consultant myself..and VAR, if a product that I resell has a bug, where installation on a clients network causes some big time consuming headache..that's MY job and my time to mop that up, I don't go install a product I resell..and then if it causes 6 hours of downtime and 6 hours of my work to fix things...I don't go charge my client 6 hours for that.

All that said and done, I'm just concerned that your current supports practices are causing you to dislike the product..and your setup. I hate to see you downgrade to a more peer to peer like setup.

My concerns with Google and other free services like that, goes beyond that...what if they decide to pull the plug? Or not offer that service anymore, or change how they do it? Now granted we can all feel safe that Google is here to stay...but, I just like being in 100% total control of what I've have for a business, including my domain name, and e-mail.

OK enough of me trying to get you to stick to SBS. I promise.

For business networks, I prefer to separate the router/edge device, from the wireless. I don't like combo wireless routers..which are routers and access points all in one. You're often sharing that CPU. I prefer dedicated access points. I like HP Procurve wireless access points..they can handle loads quite well. A few years ago I overhauled the network at a big law firm, tossed their little home grade wireless unit which was having issues when several laptops were running Needles and Sanctions through it (popular law firm software). I put in a single Procurve...ran like a champ.

Speed differences in the NAS boxes...I will defer to Tim on that, his articles and reviews of NAS products, he's the expert. To be honest, I've only dealt with a few NAS units...and they're on the larger end of things, like the $4,000 Dell PowerVault NF600 that's on the network I'm typing from now. The smaller NAS boxes don't have much of a presence in SMB...so I'm not experienced with them very much..save for one or two little units a year I'll do for someone at home. Think about "growth"...got one large enough to last you for a while.

Do you have a person that wrote/supports your Access database? Or was this done in house by someone who knew enough to create a database....I have an access/vfox/.net/sql programmer that does very well, I can ask her to send me links to some forums.

 

[thiggins]

1) Is there a router that can handle 15 simultaneous wireless connections in a ordinary 5 room two storey house.

Wireless consumer routers will support that many clients. But if you're expecting high bandwidth, they won't deliver that.

2) Are there any speed differences between the various NASs that will make file sharing faster?

Plenty. Hit the NAS Charts and see for yourself. This assumes a Gigabit Ethernet network, however. If you're determined to go wireless, then a fast NAS will be wasted. Wireless, even N won't even deliver the equivalent of 100 Mbps Ethernet, especially for many clients.

3) Is there a way of using Access 2000 databases on this shared NAS that will be most efficient (non-technical description please, or point me to an online resource that explains it)

I defer to StoneCat on this Q.

 

[SeanFL]

Hi Mike

I wanted to share that I recently moved a k-8 school over to google apps (free education edition) instead of having a server in house. They have 20-30 users. The reduction in tech support needs just for email and related issues has been great. They reduced their support budget by $1500 a year. The spam protection is superior to what they were using. And the ability for users to have access to their inbox / sent stuff no matter where they are has been a nice productivity booster. This year I'm hoping to show them the benefits of collaborative calendaring, docs, etc.

NAS wise, my quick take is to look at the Synology line or the ASUS Mini TS. Both seemed to have nice performance on the lan and will run you between $300 and $500 depending on how you equip it.

It seems like google continues to invade prior microsoft space and is serving many small and medium businesses well.

Sean

 

[mikewelsh]

Do you have a person that wrote/supports your Access database? Or was this done in house by someone who knew enough to create a database....I have an access/vfox/.net/sql programmer that does very well, I can ask her to send me links to some forums.

Would appreciate links to some useful Access forums that might help in how to run an Access 2000 database on a shared drive, thanks.

 

[mikewelsh]

Hi Mike

I wanted to share that I recently moved a k-8 school over to google apps (free education edition) instead of having a server in house. They have 20-30 users. The reduction in tech support needs just for email and related issues has been great. They reduced their support budget by $1500 a year. The spam protection is superior to what they were using. And the ability for users to have access to their inbox / sent stuff no matter where they are has been a nice productivity booster. This year I'm hoping to show them the benefits of collaborative calendaring, docs, etc.

NAS wise, my quick take is to look at the Synology line or the ASUS Mini TS. Both seemed to have nice performance on the lan and will run you between $300 and $500 depending on how you equip it.

It seems like google continues to invade prior microsoft space and is serving many small and medium businesses well.

Sean

Hi Sean,

If you have no server, do you a have a shared drive at all?

Are all your PCs wired to a router?

Thanks, Mike.

 

[SeanFL]

Hi Mike

There is a NAS connected, no great performer, and they don't hit it with any databases or other high transaction software. They use it to share documents, files, etc.

Many users are hard wired, many teachers also use wifi on laptops if they're going room to room. They have 4 wireless access points to cover the two buildings well. On certain days or projects the older kids bring in their laptops and use the network for school projects. So far it's worked pretty well.

Sean

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Would appreciate links to some useful Access forums that might help in how to run an Access 2000 database on a shared drive, thanks.

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