Suggestions for NAS with Transcoding

[davemex]

Hello,

I've been looking to set up a NAS/Media server to pipe media and files to our Xbox 360, laptops, and cell phones and after some significant research it looks like I've boiled it down to either going with an Atom 330 based system or an Intel Dual Core system running an E5200 2.5ghz processor. After that I plan on maxing out the RAM, using a couple of WD Caviar Green 1TB drives and running the whole rig on Ubuntu Server.

For the data storage and file transfer component, I'm fairly confident after reading the Atom based NAS articles here that the Atom 330 setup would be sufficient for my needs, but the one thing I'm not so sure about is the Media Server aspect. I plan on using Mediatomb to send out the media and am concerned that the Atom based processor will pretty much freeze up if any on the fly transcoding needs to be done.

Does anyone have experience using this type of setup to know what I can get away with? The price difference would end up being about $100 to go with the faster system, not to mention the power usage difference (8 watts for the 330 vs. 65 with the dual core)!

I'd love to hear anyone's feedback regarding the best route for this setup!

Thanks.

 

[hua_qiu]

I do a lot of transcoding for the HDTV I recorded by MythTv. On my P4 3.0G 1G RAM system, it can take upto 2 hours to process 1 hour recording. I don't even think about on-the-fly transcoding, all the task are scheduled in the background. Can you let us know what kind of transcoding you are expected?

 

[davemex]

On my test machine (Athlon 3200, 1 gig ram, XP SP3) using programs like TVersity or Twonkymedia server I'm almost able to pull it off (it will run fine for a few minutes but then begins to stutter as the playback catches up with the transcoding). Based on the format the video is in, it will either serve it up to the client (whether its an xbox, computer browser, smart phone, etc) in its original format or re-encode the media as it plays to the appropriate supported format for that device.

I know that a lot of the newer out of the box NAS solutions that have the 1.6 ghz or so processors are now coming with twonky server or a similar UPNP server built in (the ones I looked at were QNAP, and Synology) but didn't know how well those would perform during the heavy crunching. It makes sense that they'd be fine if they were just serving up the files, but when they actually have to reformat the media I'd get concerned.

The reviews out there do a really great job covering the overall transfer speed of these devices but there isn't a lot of focus on how well these extra functions actually work when added on. As a NAS device becomes closer to a multi purpose server than a simple file storage unit I'd see the extra features as being pretty important to look at to... (sorry for the tangent though).

Thanks again for any feedback or ideas anyone has!

 

[davemex]

I do a lot of transcoding for the HDTV I recorded by MythTv. On my P4 3.0G 1G RAM system, it can take upto 2 hours to process 1 hour recording. I don't even think about on-the-fly transcoding, all the task are scheduled in the background. Can you let us know what kind of transcoding you are expected?

Ohh and to add on a little more to answer your question (sorry I got a little off the actual topic)... Its not taking RAW high def files and encoding them into something like DIVX, its more taking an already encoded file and re-encoding it to work. So for example, a lot of the files i have are MKV files, which won't work on the 360, so they automatically get re-encoded as avi files or the like.

 

[thiggins]

The processors used in NASes aren't designed to handle the load of on-the-fly or even background transcoding.

 

[davemex]

The processors used in NASes aren't designed to handle the load of on-the-fly or even background transcoding.

Thanks for the reply. That's what I suspected but then it seems strange that major manufacturers are incorporating software into their NAS devices that have this functionality. It sounds like it would completely bog down the system then.

 

[thiggins]

Where are you seing transcoding capability included in NASes?

 

[hua_qiu]

MKV or AVI is just a container format, the real media stream inside can be anything. Container is just like packaging, changing packaging isn't really transcoding and nor require a lot of CPU power.

 

[davemex]

Where are you seing transcoding capability included in NASes?

Both the new QNAP and Synology firmwares (3.0 and 2.1 respectively) have Twonkymedia Server installed (Synology may use another similar one, but I know for sure QNAP uses that one). This is a upnp server app with on the fly transcoding support (per http://twonkymedia.de/ ).

It looks like there was a guy in the Synology forum (I believe thats where I saw it) having problems using the NAS with his Xbox 360 using the built in upnp server as well. Maybe this goes back to the issue of them having minimal processors too?

 

[davemex]

MKV or AVI is just a container format, the real media stream inside can be anything. Container is just like packaging, changing packaging isn't really transcoding and nor require a lot of CPU power.

Very good point. I need to do some more research on my end I guess to see what exactly its doing. I know that when using a server like TVersity off of my XP machine I have monitored it while running different media on different clients and sometimes it runs it through the transcode process and sometimes it doesn't but I'll need to figure out if its just changing the packing, as you put it, or completely breaking it down and rebuilding it. If its just changing it over, than the lower powered CPU might be fine. I'm not planning on doing any actual HDTV capture etc. on this device so the Atom might just work out.

 

[beisser]

The processors used in NASes aren't designed to handle the load of on-the-fly or even background transcoding.

the readynas pro with its 1.86 ghz dual core might be able to do it, but there is no addon that i know of yet.

 

[thiggins]

Both the new QNAP and Synology firmwares (3.0 and 2.1 respectively) have Twonkymedia Server installed (Synology may use another similar one, but I know for sure QNAP uses that one). This is a upnp server app with on the fly transcoding support (per http://twonkymedia.de/ ).

I have DSM 2.1-0844 loaded on a DS109+ and logged in and checked the processes that were running and did not see the Twonkyserver. I believe the QNAP uses the TwonkyMedia server, but I suspect that transcoding features may not be enabled due to the processor load that they would present. I will confirm with QNAP.

 

[davemex]

Thanks for looking into that! I looked through the Synology 2.1 and beta 2.2 specs and you're right, no Twonky (maybe I read that as misinformation in one of their forums), so its probably just their own proprietary app.

I'm still on the fence between the more powerful system and the Atom 330 powered setup though. The geek in me craves the thought of running a double core Pentium server with 4 gigs of RAM but my green side loves the thought of setting up a sleek, cool, low powered Atom NAS.

Ahh life's hard decisions...

 

[00Roush]

Take a look at this article for more information about power usage and performance of atom versus a E7200.

In my opinion you should find yourself a E7200 as it would offer much better performance for transcoding.

00Roush

 

[davemex]

Take a look at this article for more information about power usage and performance of atom versus a E7200.

In my opinion you should find yourself a E7200 as it would offer much better performance for transcoding.

00Roush

Hah, that's excellent. I found that article yesterday afternoon as well. That puts the nail in the coffin of the Atom vs. Pentium decision. Not only do both the systems run at very similar watt levels, but since it takes the Atom longer to do the tasks, it actually ends up using more power!

Thanks for the help with this. Now to pick out a mother board and move forward with the build...

 

[davemex]

So I've pulled the trigger on the components and will try to document the build from hardware through the software setup for anyone interested in doing something similar (relatively powerful NAS capable of real time transcoding and fast file transfer capability).

I'll post the actual build in a new thread but this is what is going into it:

Case: (probably the hardest part) Rosewill RS-MI-01 BK Mini ITX Tower - after weeks of looking at different cases for a good NAS this one finally looked like the best option. It has two 5.25" bays that can (relatively) easily be replaced with 3 3.5" hot swap bays using a product like: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817119403 . Additionally, there is room on the side for another 3.5" HD and possibly a 2.5" drive as well!

Processor: E6300 Wolfdale 2.8ghz Dual Core Pentium - relatively low energy usage (65 watts) and according to the charts on Tomshardware it can encode video faster than real time, ideal for the media server aspects.

Motherboard: Intel DG45FC mini ITX - small and stable with onboard 10/100/1000 LAN

Ram: 4 GB OCZ DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)- just maxing out the board

Drives: So far I've got 2XWD 1TB Green EADS drives for storage and a 2.5" 7200 RPM 120 gig Seagate laptop hard drive to run the OS on. Ideally I'd like to get a couple more of the 1TB drives and run a RAID 5 array but for now I'm going to run a RAID 0 and just run regular backups of the critical stuff to my 1TB external drive.

Based on everything I've seen in these forums I plan on running Ubuntu Sever 64 bit headless with Webmin. I also bounced back and forth between WHS and Amahi (using Fedora) but neither of those two looked as developed and customizable as Ubuntu (and of course if you go legit you have to fork out a good $100 for WHS).

I'll keep everyone posted as I move forward but I do have to say that for the $, it looks like if you're willing to put in a little time, you can get a lot more NAS/Media Sever for the $ than buying a retail NAS device. With shipping, this is going to have cost me $350 before drives. You couldn't buy a 1.2 ghz single core TS-219p for that price! (DISCLAIMER: I know that part of that price gets you a ready to run software solution and support too, but some would look at that software as both a benefit and limitation).

All the parts arrive Monday so wish me luck!!!