Trouble with MOCA Set Up

[cotorassiel]

Hello, I need some assistance with a MOCA set up that im trying to get up and running, my ISP is frontier with 1Gig fiber service, they have set up a MOCA adapter with an FCA251 configured on the WAN setting and works normally, I tried to set up a MOCA LAN network to no avail, MOCA light does not come on on neither GoCoax adapter, I have confirmed that the splitter I have in place is over 1000 Mhz (Its actually a 5-2000 Mhz), I have done a straight connection with both gocoax adapters and the MOCA light did come on. I dont know if I am doing something wrong or if there is a splitter somewhere in the attic preventing the MOCA connection and if that would be the case why is that the FCA251 is able to stablish a MOCA connection with the ONT on WAN setting?

Thank you in advance

 

[degrub]

Do read through the posts from Krkaufman regarding Frontier devices.

@krkaufman ?
Frontier is your specialty, IMHO.

 

[krkaufman]

frontier with 1Gig fiber service, they have set up a MOCA adapter with an FCA251 configured on the WAN setting

Why a FCA251 set to "WAN"? Do you also have TV signals on your coax?

The issue is likely due to the operating frequency associated with the FCA251["WAN"] setting overlapping with the standard MoCA Extended Band D range that the retail goCoax adapters are trying to use.

• FCA251["WAN"]: 1475-1675 MHz
• MoCA Ext. Band D: 1125-1675 MHz

What *should* have been done, absent TV signals on the coax, was to use an FCA252 adapter set to "25GW" ... either in coordination w/ an ONT natively supporting the associated operating frequency, or using a pair of the FCA252 adapters, with one installed at the ONT to proxy the MoCA WAN link. The critical bit is that the FCA252["25GW"] setting shifts the MoCA WAN to a frequency range NOT overlapping w/ MoCA's Extended Band D:

• FCA252["25GW"]: 400-900 MHz
• MoCA Ext. Band D: 1125-1675 MHz

The resulting setup, along with the MoCA LAN connections, might look something like the following...

​

​

You should contact Frontier to get you setup properly, since they may need to reconfigure the ONT to support the alternate MoCA WAN frequency, along with getting the FCA252 adapter(s) without charge.

p.s. More Re: the Frontier FCA252 adapter >here<.

---------------

Frontier is your specialty, IMHO.

Meh, few others seemingly jumping to respond to these setups doesn't really make them my specialty as much as a void of interest or knowledge on the part of others. There really isn't much to this Frontier workaround, and it's definitely well documented at this point.

 

[krkaufman]

p.s. One similar, past thread >here<.

 

[krkaufman]

I have confirmed that the splitter I have in place is over 1000 Mhz (Its actually a 5-2000 Mhz)

FWIW, this likely isn’t a splitter optimized for MoCA. See the following:

• MoCA-compatible splitter recommendations(… and warnings)
• preferred MoCA filter: PPC GLP-1G70CWWS (Amazon US listing) … 70+ dB stop-band attenuation, spec’d for full MoCA Ext. Band D range, 1125-1675 MHz

 

[cotorassiel]

Why a FCA251 set to "WAN"? Do you also have TV signals on your coax?

No TV signals at all on the Coax, I tried to link both GoCoax adapters and disconnecting the FCA251 still no connection, next test I will do is disconnect the ONT and the FCA251 from the Coax and try to isolate the network and see if the GoCoax adapters stablish a connection, if not im at a loss.

The ONT is a Frontier FOX222

Will Report Back when test have been completed

Thank You

 

[degrub]

After your test removing the ONT and the FCA251 with the splitter presumably installed, remove the splitter and use a barrel connector with a frequency rating that covers the moca range. Satellite or TV rated may or may not work. IF that doesn't work, test each coax segment with the two GoCoax adapters to verify.

Is the coax RG6 or RG59 ?
Roughly , how long is each segment ?

 

[krkaufman]

I tried to link both GoCoax adapters and disconnecting the FCA251 still no connection

You *will* need to get the coax lines identified and properly interconnected. You *could* use the pair of goCoax adapters for coax line identification, as described >here<, including getting the line to the router location identified when you could accept a temporary Internet outage (with the FCA251 disconnected).

edit:

test each coax segment with the two GoCoax adapters to verify.

Yes, basically this.

And then get the lines interconnected, ideally using MoCA-optimized components and optionally (though recommended) with a “PoE” MoCA filter on the top-level splitter’s input port, through which the ONT’s coax feed would be connected.

And you’ll still need to make the FCA251[“WAN”] >>> FCA252[“25GW”] MoCA WAN change.

NOTE: The “PoE” MoCA filter can only be added AFTER the upgrade to a FCA252[“25GW”] MoCA WAN setup, as the filter would block the frequencies associated with a FCA251[“WAN”] MoCA WAN connection.​

Related:

• MoCA-compatible splitter recommendations (… and warnings)
• preferred MoCA filter: PPC GLP-1G70CWWS (Amazon US listing) … 70+ dB stop-band attenuation, spec’d for full MoCA Ext. Band D range, 1125-1675 MHz

 

[krkaufman]

No TV signals at all on the Coax.

Call Frontier to schedule a tech visit to switch you to a FCA252[“25GW”] MoCA WAN setup. (The tech should also be able to help with getting the lines properly interconnected at your coax junction, using MoCA-compatible parts … though they’ll probably skip the recommended “PoE” MoCA filter.)

As detailed in that prior thread linked, the issue (aside from possibly disconnected coax) is that the FCA251 adapter doesn’t offer an operating range that doesn’t overlap with the MoCA Extended Band D range, making sharing coax between a FCA251-effected MoCA WAN and a MoCA LAN network problematic.

FCA251/WF-803FT configuration settings:

• WAN: 1475-1675 MHz (1000 Mbps max)
• LAN: 1025-1350 MHz (1500 Mbps max)
• FULL: 1125-1675 MHz (2500 Mbps max)

 

[cotorassiel]

Ok so I was able to get some time off and do some testing, I disconnected the ONT and the FCA251 from the coax network and was able to get a MOCA link on the GoCoax adapters, as soon as the ONT or the FCA251 were added to the network MOCA link went down on the GoCoax adapters confirming a frequency overlap as stated by @krkaufman, if I disconnect the ONT and get a MOCA link on the GoCoax adapters the link goes down when connecting the FCA251, however I added a 5-1000Mhz splitter before the FCA251 and was able to get a MOCA link between the GoCoax adapters and keep the FCA251 in the network without affecting the MOCA link the 5-1000Mhz splitter is acting as a filter preventing communication from the FCA251 over 1000Mhz, when connecting the ONT MOCA link still went down on the GoCoax adapters and to my surprise a MOCA link was established between the FCA251 and the ONT with a 5-1000Mhz splitter in the way, I thought it was a defective splitter and tested the same theory with another 5-1000Mhz splitter and a 5-1005Mhz splitter in both instances the MOCA link between the ONT and the FCA251 was established I kept the 5-1000Mhz splitter before the FCA251 and added another 5-1000Mhz splitter after the ONT effectively filtering the signal from the ONT to under 1000Mhz and the frequency from the FCA251 under 1000Mhz as well and a MOCA link was established between the 2 units, however Im still not able to get a MOCA link between the 2 GoCoax adapters with this described set up, even with these low quality splitters I had laying around I am able to get very good speeds when wired to my router (1Gig contracted speed) I have attached the topology as it sits now on the coax side. I understand I need to call frontier to get this up and running but im curious of why this MOCA connection is working on WAN setting with splitters in the way that are not MOCA rated (up to 1000Mhz)

 

[degrub]

The out port to out port isolation may not be high enough to defeat the MOCA modem (Frontier/ONT) if that is the path. Similarly, the attenuation of the higher frequencies may be weak enough that the MOCA modem can establish a connection. Depends on the design of the splitter. That's why we say may or may not work. A certified for MOCA2 splitter or amp, minimizes the loss between In-Out and Out-Out for the MOCA frequencies and may attenuate outside of that range to help with signal/noise.

 

[krkaufman]

im curious of why this MOCA connection is working on WAN setting with splitters in the way that are not MOCA rated (up to 1000Mhz)

Because ...

1. They're splitters, not filters. (splitters don't explicitly block frequencies outside their spec'd range; the behavior is just undocumented and can't be relied upon)
2. MoCA has built-in power adjustment functionality.

So the ONT and single FCA251 MoCA adapter can adjust their power levels, to a point, to overcome suboptimal conditions over the coax; that is, sub-optimal relative to this MoCA network's operating range, 1475-1675 MHz. Throw a 70+ dB MoCA filter in-line between the ONT and FCA251["WAN"] adapter and you'll quickly see the difference between a splitter and filter.

The power adjustment capability allows MoCA to mask the change in conditions, perhaps maintaining the same throughput. But throughput can be affected once the MoCA gear hits its max amplification level and the MoCA link rate begins to suffer. You can access the MoCA diagnostics to review PHY rates for the MoCA link, to see if they're affected by changes in coax components and topology. Unfortunately, I haven't seen diagnostics that include the power levels, a measure that would enable recognizing changes in conditions prior to the max amplification point, where PHY rates would be affected.

p.s. If/when you get around to the proper, suggested setup using a FCA252["25GW"] MoCA WAN (400-900 MHz) link, you'll want to update the splitters used to models optimized for MoCA 2.x, and would ideally also include the suggested "PoE" MoCA filter -- to improve the efficiency of the MoCA LAN network.

• MoCA-compatible splitter recommendations(… and warnings)
• preferred MoCA filter: PPC GLP-1G70CWWS (Amazon US listing) … 70+ dB stop-band attenuation, spec’d for full MoCA Ext. Band D range, 1125-1675 MHz