Trying Out Netbooks: Lenovo IdeaPad S10

[vnangia]

May I make a shameless plug for the Acer Aspire One instead of the Dell as your next test subject?

I paid $350, plus another $110 for a few upgrades (320GB hard drive, 1GB RAM module, tiny BT dongle, Microsoft BT5000 mouse; I also had a fast 2GB SanDisk card lying around that has been co-opted as ReadyBoost). The base price gets you the usual 1.6GHz Atom, 1GB of RAM, 120GB hard drive, and a 3-cell battery that lasts me about an hour and a half with WiFi on, screen at full brightness, or just under two with WiFi on, screen at lowest brightness (which is still brighter than my 2005 Dell desktop display!). Both these times include the BT dongle plugged in, and my using the external mouse. For a 3-cell battery, I think it's pretty reasonable, and I've heard that the 6-cell can do six hours with WiFi off; in Vista sleep mode, with the dongle left in, it stands by for about 5 days. You also get your standard 3 USB jacks, two SD card slots (one of which has a aforementioned SanDisk card permanently installed), 10/100 network, VGA out, line in/line out, a built in camera with decent daytime and nighttime video, and a highly sensitive mic.

I have also installed Vista Ultimate 32bit on it - for whatever reason, my Windows XP SP2 CD refuses to install via the USB DVD drive that I have, forcing the Vista situation. I ran into two major problems, initially: the WiFi switch was broken so Vista thought the WiFi was off; and, Vista did not have the drivers needed to offload to the 950, so I was in "Aero Basic". Fixing the WiFi required me to take the XP driver files, and the Vista INF files for the Broadcom chipset and combine them (a problem you will hopefully never run into, as there are newer versions now available from Acer's Europe site). Fixing the Aero problem required me to go download the latest generic 950 drivers from Intel's site. The base score is 2.7 in Vista's Performance test, which is respectable for this kind of computer.

However, the reason I picked this computer (and the reason I recommend it to others) is the keyboard. Most keys are about 93-95% of full size, the tilde and Backspace keys excepted. This would normally be a problem, except that whatever Acer is using in the membrane backing is incredible and the keyboard is the best I have ever used since I left my 386's buckling-spring keyboard behind. It's highly responsive, there's a satisfying click and thud, and I was typing at full speed within an hour of switching to the Acer - which is better than my current situation with the new flat aluminum Apple keyboards. I have not found the side mouse button situation odd, though in all fairness, I: (a) use the mouse more often than not; (b) I tap the mousing surface rather than the button.

There are three gripes, however:
-One (and this is the deeply personal one, so it may not apply to you) is that outside surface is a fingerprint magnet like no other. If fingerprints bother you like they bother me, you're going to need to keep a cleaning cloth on you, though Acer provides a handy leatherette sleeve to toss the entire laptop into.
-Two, is the palm-rest - or lack thereof. It's a common problem with netbooks, but you either need long fingers if you're resting your palm off the netbook, or short fingers if you're resting on the palm-rest. Otherwise, you do need to scrunch up a little, which can be a problem for long passages.
-Three is the design of the internals. I basically had to disassemble the entire netbook to change the RAM and the hard drive, made worse by the fact that I didn't realize I couldn't put a 2GB RAM module in the one slot. It's a delicate and intricate operation, and one that I'm glad I'm not doing again. Still, damned inconsiderate on Acer's part.

Anyway, the point of this treatise is to mainly encourage you to try that Acer out. Friend of mine also has the HP 2133 and she loves it, but I personally don't like how hot it gets. Also, the 1 key on the 2133 is a just slightly smaller than all the other number keys and it drives me crazy; no such problem with the Acer.

Thanks for your review on the S10 - I was considering replacing the Acer with the S10, because of the ExpressCard slot, but I'm glad I didn't after I saw the keyboard...

 

[thiggins]

Thanks for the mini review of the Acer. I agree that it has a nice keyboard; looks like the same design as on the Samsung NC10, which is my favorite so far.

But the side-mounted mouse buttons are a deal-killer. Another ergonomically-bad design. I want the keyboard, touchpad and mouse buttons to be usable without having to resort to a BT mouse. Sometimes I'll need to use the netbook in a conference situation in my lap and don't want to constantly be having to correct my typing.

The Notebook Review review also says the fan is noisy, another deal-killer.

As I said in the review, had Samsung put decent, separate mouse buttons in the NC10, I would be done by now. It really is a very nice netbook otherwise.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

IBM/Lenovo had always been known for excellent large standard keyboards on their laptops/tablets. Tis a shame, IMO, they strayed from this in trying to follow the crowd with this recent "eepeecee trend" most makes are putting out now. If I had to get an ultra portable now....no looking around for me, straight to their X series lineup....no sacrifice in power/speed, good large keyboard, and still small 'n portable. I had my hands on a few of their latest line, the X200, for a Hospice client of mine....very fast and solid rigs.

 

[vnangia]

Thanks for the mini review of the Acer. I agree that it has a nice keyboard; looks like the same design as on the Samsung NC10, which is my favorite so far.

But the side-mounted mouse buttons are a deal-killer. Another ergonomically-bad design. I want the keyboard, touchpad and mouse buttons to be usable without having to resort to a BT mouse. Sometimes I'll need to use the netbook in a conference situation in my lap and don't want to constantly be having to correct my typing.

The Notebook Review review also says the fan is noisy, another deal-killer.

As I said in the review, had Samsung put decent, separate mouse buttons in the NC10, I would be done by now. It really is a very nice netbook otherwise.

Hmm, I have a first generation (literally, the day the model was first available) model and the fan is dead quiet and rarely comes on. Interesting NotebookReview had a different experience, but there are often itty bitty differences from piece to piece.

I'll agree that the sidepad buttons are not quite as ergonomic as the bottom mounted ones, but tell you the truth, I've never used it: I tap the touchpad. I should also add that the touchpad is apparently multi-touch enabled, allowing you to use a utility to use two fingers to right click and such.

And finally, the keyboard is indeed the same layout as the Samsung, but where the Samsung keyboard is really kind of mushy, the keys on the Acer are satisfyingly clicky, which, I have to say, makes it much easier to type on.

IBM/Lenovo had always been known for excellent large standard keyboards on their laptops/tablets. Tis a shame, IMO, they strayed from this in trying to follow the crowd with this recent "eepeecee trend" most makes are putting out now. If I had to get an ultra portable now....no looking around for me, straight to their X series lineup....no sacrifice in power/speed, good large keyboard, and still small 'n portable. I had my hands on a few of their latest line, the X200, for a Hospice client of mine....very fast and solid rigs.

You know what would be great on this form factor? A pointing stick. Lenovo should capitalize on that great TrackPoint they inherited from IBM and get rid of the touchpad entirely.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

You know what would be great on this form factor? A pointing stick. Lenovo should capitalize on that great TrackPoint they inherited from IBM and get rid of the touchpad entirely.

The "Red Nipple"? It's on the X series!

 

[vnangia]

The "Red Nipple"? It's on the X series!

Was trying to keep it G rated, but yes indeed, the red nipple.

Would be a perfect fit for the netbook designs!

 

[thiggins]

Would love to get an X200 or even x61. But not in the budget this year. And yes, I checked refurbs, which aren't cheap when configured as I want.

Not a real fan of the Trackpoint either.

 

[thiggins]

I'll agree that the sidepad buttons are not quite as ergonomic as the bottom mounted ones, but tell you the truth, I've never used it: I tap the touchpad.

I haven't had good luck with tapping on touchpads. Seems when I enable it, I always trigger it when I don't mean to. So I have gotten into the habit of shutting it off.

I didn't realize, however, that multi-touch simulated a right mouse click. I'll check that out on the Dell.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Not a real fan of the Trackpoint either.

Yeah it's definitely a personal preference. Sorta like ergonomic keyboards or thumb-trackball mice. It took me a while..but once I got used to it...thus hooked on it....I think I find myself using it >60% of the time, versus scratching the pad with my thumb.

 

[mgraves]

Tim,

Whatever you finally settle on I will surely buy as well. I've never seen someone with such clearly defined sense of what's required in a notebook/netbook. If you like it, I will surely like it as well.

Michael

 

[vnangia]

Yeah, it's a very personal decision. When I bought my Acer, it was only the second netbook out on the market, and compared to the Asus EeePC, it was cheaper, had a better keyboard and screen and looked so much prettier. But especially the keyboard is incredible (I'm typing this at full speed from my Acer, for example, and given that I have a major fat finger problem, that's no mean feat.)

As it happened, I've not found a better fit for my needs. In the intervening months, as the dozens of models have become hundreds, I'm still happiest with my Acer.

 

[vnangia]

Wind

I went to the local Microcenter today, and found that they had the U100 Wind for $50 less than any other place, Newegg included. At $299, it seemed a good price, and my flat mate ended up picking one up. I've played with it for a few hours now, and I find myself agreeing with your review of the Wind generally. The touchpad is indeed very wonky, but I found the keyboard almost as good as the one on the Acer. As I've previously said, the Acer keyboard is nice and solid, with excellent tactile feedback; the Wind is somewhere between the mushy EeePC keyboard and the Acer, but closer to the Wind than the EeePC.

What I do like about the Wind though is the palm rest - there is significantly more space between the edge of the laptop and the keyboard. The camera is also significantly better, but I think this has more to do with the aperture size than the extra pixels. Microphone was so-so.

One thing I noticed about the Wind is that MSI has locked down the computer pretty thoroughly against addons or modifications. In addition to the sticker noting that opening the case would void the warranty, I noticed at least a couple of the screws were a pretty strange type of star-shape; nothing I have in my kit can open it, which is ... quite impressive, since I have just about every type of head in the world in my kit. I'm not entirely sure why this is the case, but compared to the mod-friendly Acer, I was a little turned off. While the Acer is probably as difficult or more difficult to open than any other netbook, there's no active attempt by Acer to make it more difficult, and Acer's policy is basically as long as nothing seems to have been broken, it's covered. In my case, I quite happily disassembled the laptop to get to the memory and the hard drive located on the underside of the Acer. Peering through the vents, the Wind seems to have a similar configuration. I'm not sure what MSI is trying to prevent; contractually, they can't do more than 1.5GB RAM and 160 GB HDD on their XP machines, anyway.

Anyway, not a bad machine, but I'll take a look over the next few days and see if I notice any other major differences, other than the obvious matte vs glossy screen.

 

[thiggins]

Thanks for the comments. The star-shaped fastener is a Torx. I have sometimes used a small flat-head screwdriver in the past when I didn't have the proper size Torx driver.

 

[tazdevil]

Have you Tried the HP 2133?

Tim, I replaced my Asus EEEPC (701) with an HP Mini 2133, and now they have their consume line mini 1000 series out? I much like this unit over the asus.

 

[thiggins]

I considered it briefly. But < 10" screen and mouse buttons on touchpad sides killed it for me.

 

[mikeh2]

my netbook experiences

Tim,

I've greatly enjoyed your Netbook series. I think Netbooks will be huge, but the first generation (and in HP and Asus's case, second generation) are suffering from what seem like rookie design mistakes. I own an Acer Aspire One (WinXP), MSI Wind (WinXP) and Asus Eee PC 1000 (Linux) and each screams version 1.0.

Just curious if you bought your S10 Netbook directly from Lenovo? I did, when they first came out, and the machine arrived so poorly packaged, that I returned it without even unwrapping the computer itself. See my CNET blog for more see Lenovo IdeaPad S10 Netbook: Not a first look

As you point out, the single single mouse button is a big downer. The one on the Wind is particularly annoying as it's hard to see (it's a black button against a black background) and hard to find by touch (it integrates perfectly with the surrounding case, giving you very little to feel for).

The care and effort that went into the software on the Samsung machine, as you described it, was very impressive compared to the three machines that I have. As for the fan on the Acer Aspire One, mine is not noisy, in fact, it's not noticeable at all. Also, I can feel the hard disk spinning on the Wind, which makes me wonder how well its mounted. Not so on the Acer (my Asus has SSD). The Acer keyboard is well done, I just find that it's too small overall for my adult hands.

I wrote about these three Netbooks at datamation.com last month: One Guy, 3 Netbooks

Michael Horowitz

 

[thiggins]

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your comments.

The S10 came directly from Lenovo. Its box looks the same as the one in the photo in your blog piece, but it came packed inside a plain brown corrugated box. Good thing, because the product box is no way strong enough to be shipped naked, as your photo shows.

I'm looking forward to the form factor of the Dell Mini 12, but not its performance under Vista.

 

[edwaleni]

Try Dell SMB

I have worked with Dell at various levels, individually, as an SMB, and on the Corporate Sales side.

Of course if you had ordered it through a corporate partner, getting your order arranged would have been easy, but we will skip that for now.

Calling in as a "home" or individual user for an existing order with Dell is a huge waste of time. The system is designed to be low cost and extra efficient. Any changes to a web order will always require the order be canceled and redone. So if you are in a hurry or anxious on the accuracy of the order, using the "home" approach isn't the way.

In your case, I would recommend that you have yourself registered as an SMB. It doesn't require the world in documentation or turn over your arm in proof that you are going to resell a million bucks worth.

Advantages I have found in the SMB "pool"

- Better discounts through the SMB mailers
- American English sales and tech support
- Better sales support hours
- More responsive tech support

Dell has a dedicated SMB sales support team, even if you don't get the same person every time, they have been very good to work with. Once you get a name, stick with them, they have always been happy to help when available. The only problem is it appears the whole group seems to go on breaks or training at the same time periodically.

Back to the Corporate side.....when employees make web orders instead of creating purchase orders (like they are supposed too) it is a royal pain to have a Dell corporate rep sort out a web order. They will typically get a hold of that sales support group (outsourced) and go through the tooth pull to get it canceled.

Finally, there are some low level issues going on between OEM's and MS with regards to XP. Dell charges extra for XP as a policy, but the competition isn't with regards to Netbooks.

Been long time since I dropped in Tim, I think I cruised through your original site back in 2000/2001 (just before your big court thing). Lots of tech has passed through since then, glad your are still hanging in there.

 

[thiggins]

Hi Ed,
Thanks for checking in and for the tip on Dell SMB. I'm still waiting for the XP version of the Mini 12 to ship.

 

[vnangia]

Thanks for the comments. The star-shaped fastener is a Torx. I have sometimes used a small flat-head screwdriver in the past when I didn't have the proper size Torx driver.

Interesting... the one here came with the security torx - the one with the indentation to make regular Torx and flatheads not work.