Unstable MoCA and can't get bonded 2.0 speed

[coolzai]

Problem 1: Unstable internet
I had setup MoCA network for a few weeks, it works great most of the time, but it randomly drops internet connections probably once every hour for about a minute or so. I did a little bit of research, and someone suggests that changing the band to D high might help, so I tried to change my MM1000 from 1150, band D extended to 1500, band D high, but I couldn't get it working. My network diagram is attached below. Here is what I tried:

• When I change the MM1000 in the basement to 1500, D high, I couldn't get it linked with the WCB6200 (not sure about the MM1000 on the 3rd floor, it was disconnected at that point).
• When I change it back to 1150, D extended, it works.
• When I change the MM1000 3rd floor to 1500, D high, the WCB6200 and MM1000 on the 3rd floor can't establish the link simultaneously, i.e., when WC6200 is connected, MM1000 couldn't connect, and vice versa.
• When I change the MM1000 3rd floor back to 1150, D extended, all works well, except the internet will randomly drop.

Q: Does change to band D high will help? If so, what's the problem with my setup, maybe the WCB6200 or the 2-way splitter?

Problem 2: Can't get bonded 2.0 speed
I have Fios Gigabit internet at home. I didn't use the MoCA built in the Quantum Gateway because it is not bonded 2.0. I believe all the nodes (MM1000 x 2, WCB6200) in my diagram below are bonded 2.0. However, the maximum internet speed I can get is around 600Mbps. When I log into MM1000, I saw the Rx PHY rate is at 687Mbps.

Q: ~600Mbps feels like the standard 2.0 speed to me, I was wondering why I can't get bonded 2.0 speed.

Another question: is there a way I can get rid of the quantum gateway? It feels somewhat redundant(?) to me

Thanks in advance.

 

[degrub]

you have to shift all three at the same time, IIRC, if you want them to talk to each other.

Do you have anything else on the coax ?
If not, no reason to shift the frequency band used.

"internet dropping" can be anything in the connection back to the ISP hardware outside of your place. If you want to test available bandwidth across your local cable network, look up IPERF and threads here for testing bandwidth across moca.

GO into the MOCA modem diagnostic pages and look at the sync bit rate for each pair. If you are getting 600 MBit/s through the ISP gear out to some server on the internet, then you likely are getting MOCA2 bonded on your internal lanas that is above the MOCA2 spec of 500 Mbit/s. if more than two nodes are active moving ethernet packets, then the throughput for any one pair will be reduced as it is a shared resource.

Realize that testing local lan by using internet servers is not a good test and at higher bit rates is highly variable and depends on the hops, the internet/ISP congestion, and the server load.

Something else is causing your drop outs, what ever you mean by that. If you moca is not syncing at bonded speeds you will have to go find the bad termination or cable. Did you test each pair combination of the modems with a 1 meter coax and see what speed they bonded at ?

You will have to check with Verizon FIOS about swapping out their gear if it is even possible. i have ATT and they require their modem after the ONT.

 

[coolzai]

Thanks degrub for the reply!

you have to shift all three at the same time, IIRC, if you want them to talk to each other.

I don't see a way to change the frequency or band on WCB6200. I think that's because it is the version's version so it has very limited capabilities on the admin page.

Do you have anything else on the coax ?
If not, no reason to shift the frequency band used.

No. I don't have anything else on the coax.

"internet dropping" can be anything in the connection back to the ISP hardware outside of your place. If you want to test available bandwidth across your local cable network, look up IPERF and threads here for testing bandwidth across moca.

Unfortunately, I only have one device that has a 1G Ethernet port, another with a 100M Ethernet port. So I couldn't test the full bandwidth of either 2.0 or bonded 2.0.

GO into the MOCA modem diagnostic pages and look at the sync bit rate for each pair. If you are getting 600 MBit/s through the ISP gear out to some server on the internet, then you likely are getting MOCA2 bonded on your internal lanas that is above the MOCA2 spec of 500 Mbit/s. if more than two nodes are active moving ethernet packets, then the throughput for any one pair will be reduced as it is a shared resource.

This is what I saw when logging into the MM1000. Nothing on WCB6200. I assume that might suggest I'm on bonded 2.0?

Realize that testing local lan by using internet servers is not a good test and at higher bit rates is highly variable and depends on the hops, the internet/ISP congestion, and the server load.

Something else is causing your drop outs, what ever you mean by that. If you moca is not syncing at bonded speeds you will have to go find the bad termination or cable. Did you test each pair combination of the modems with a 1 meter coax and see what speed they bonded at ?

You will have to check with Verizon FIOS about swapping out their gear if it is even possible. i have ATT and they require their modem after the ONT.

 

[degrub]

there are 3 moca devices in your picture. - 0,1,2. you can use the mac address to identify which is which. Looks like only MOCA 2 sync rates.
here is a handy reference

http://www.techplanners.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Basic-MoCA.pdf

connect the two MM1000s together with a short coax cable. See what sync you get.
Connect one of the MM1000s to the AT device. See what you get.

If you get bonded rates, then you can start looking at the coax and splitters for issues, including termination issues in the wall connectors and short cables.

With a good physical cable plant, you should see sync rates of around 900 Mbits/s. That is what should show up on the short cable test between a single pair.

 

[coolzai]

hmm. interesting. When I directly connect two MM1000s with a short coax. I still get around Rx Phy rate sub-700.

 

[degrub]

It sounds like you are not getting enhanced or turbo mode then if your PHY rate is 700.

What did the node status page indicate ? Please post.


You may find some ideas reading the threads here about GOCOAX modems.

Is your cable network connected to the outside world anywhere ?
Do you have any open cables ? or other splitters/devices connected ?

 

[degrub]

look for KRKaufman's posts. here is one from another thread . Note these are throughput rates not PHY rates.

i noticed on the posted node status page that the PER was 5 in 10,000. If that is an error rate number, i think it should be much lower more like 1 in 1,000,000 unless there is a problem with the cable or the modem.

when you look at the cable end connectors, make sure there are no wire whiskers sticking through where the core conductor is located and when you connect them, you get them all the way tight.

 

[coolzai]

Thanks degrub! I will do some testings over the weekend and circle back.

 

[krkaufman]

This is what I saw when logging into the MM1000. Nothing on WCB6200. I assume that might suggest I'm on bonded 2.0?

Yes, that is a bonded MoCA 2.0 connection, indicated by the “Bit Loading” graphic spanning two channels. (MoCA 2.5 adapters offer a better diagnostics page, where the PHY rates of the bonded channels are summed-up, reaching up to near 3500 Mbps for 5 bonded channels.)

Also, the diag shows a good PHY rate of 670 Mbps (max is 700), and TX power could hardly be better, showing -25 & -27 dBm, with theoretical maximum power reduction of -30 dBm and max amplification of +3 dBm.

 

[degrub]

so that is frequency on the x axis.

 

[krkaufman]

Do you have anything else on the coax ?
If not, no reason to shift the frequency band used.

Agreed.

Also, the typical reason for many people shifting their MoCA LAN to D-High is to avoid destabilizing their new DOCSIS 3.1 cable modem/gateway — which doesn’t apply to a fiber install (and putting aside that it’s a lot easier to just put a MoCA filter on the cable modem’s coax port). A more likely inspiration in a fiber install is to avoid the MoCA LAN of TV STBs.

That said, is there *really* nothing else connected to the home coax plant aside from these 3 MoCA nodes? The ONT and G1100 have both been disconnected from the coax?

 

[krkaufman]

so that is frequency on the x axis.

That’s my casual understanding. (i.e. not first-hand)

 

[degrub]

a digital o'scope !.

 

[coolzai]

Agreed.

Also, the typical reason for many people shifting their MoCA LAN to D-High is to avoid destabilizing their new DOCSIS 3.1 cable modem/gateway — which doesn’t apply to a fiber install (and putting aside that it’s a lot easier to just put a MoCA filter on the cable modem’s coax port). A more likely inspiration in a fiber install is to avoid the MoCA LAN of TV STBs.

That said, is there *really* nothing else connected to the home coax plant aside from these 3 MoCA nodes? The ONT and G1100 have both been disconnected from the coax?

That’s correct. Nothing else is on the coax.

 

[krkaufman]

I don't know if it relates, but you might want to review "J.C."'s reply in this goCoax forum thread, discussing compatibility issues related to the WCB6200Q and G1100. (The reply discusses MoCA 2.5, but perhaps the root issue also affected the ability to link with other, non-Actiontec bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters.)

See: https://www.gocoax.com/forum/everyt...r-wcb6200q-and-what-is-the-best-set-up-thanks

 

[coolzai]

Thanks krkaufman! I replaced my WCB6200Q with the another Motorola MM1000. It is pretty stable since then, I no longer have random disconnections. Guess WCB6200Q is not that compatible with MM1000.

 

[krkaufman]

Thanks krkaufman! I replaced my WCB6200Q with the another Motorola MM1000. It is pretty stable since then, I no longer have random disconnections. Guess WCB6200Q is not that compatible with MM1000.

According to that linked thread, it's possible that there's a firmware update for the WCB6200Q that may fix what ails it.