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Use Samsung Evo 860 SSD in small NAS?

bvz

New Around Here
Hi,

Sorry if this has been asked before but the forum won't let me search for evo or ssd because they are too short.

I am thinking of getting a synology ds419slim and populating it with some 2TB Samsung EVO 860 SSD's (starting with 2 drives configured using Synology Hybrid Raid but growing over time as needed). I currently have a ds216j with two 3.5" spinning rust drives and it serves most of my purposes well enough (more about this below).

My use case is mostly for data storage for a number of computers, but not computers that are generally used simultaneously. In other words, I would probably be writing to the NAS from my laptop and then, the next day, be switching to a desktop and continuing to work on the same data. For the most part I would not expect the drives to get much more writing time than if they were in a desktop system.

I do, of course, want the data to be safe and reliable - comparable reliability (or better) than my ds216j setup with RAID 1 (I've had a single drive fail on that one after a year, but since then it has been solid).

Does this sound like a bad idea? I know people generally discourage the use of desktop drives in a NAS, but I figure that was because of two reasons:

1) Power management on mechanical hard drives is different between desktop drives and NAS level drives
2) Excessive use by all the machines on the LAN in a small office can put additional wear on the drives

In my case, since they are SSD's I thought that maybe #1 was no longer an issue. And because of my use case (basically just using the NAS as long term storage and as an external drive for a single user) that #2 was also not a big issue.

Thanks!



(The reason I am considering this switch is that I want a smaller system because I intend to do some longer term traveling and need to bring additional storage with me and figured I may as well bring my entire data set along, and I prefer the idea of a system that uses as little power as possible - the ds216j is set up to power down and sleep - but I'd like to reduce that even more).


Edit:

I am open to suggestions for other small form factor NAS' as well (not just the ds419slim - but I really like that size)
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
The main reason desktop-class SSD's don't get recommended for NAS use is because of the total writes written. The firmware for the NAS specific drives not only accounts for this, but they also have a higher drive writes per day or total bytes written. They have to account for NAS use because most NAS os's do not have TRIM enabled (I'm sure that is changing quickly though) and that just amplifies and speeds up the degradation to the chips.

For example, the Seagate Ironwolf 110 NAS SSD is rated at 3,500TB TBW while the Samsung Evo 860 is rated for 1,200TB TBW. These are both for the 2TB SSD's (smaller capacity SSD's have smaller TBW ratings).

However, don't think that saving a bit of money and using the NAS less will offset the lower Endurance of the Samsung EVO. Those specifications are for NAS vs. normal laptop or desktop usage and can't be compared directly (I would assume half or less of the TBW rating, and that would be only if the NAS os had TRIM enabled too for the desktop-class EVO).

Use the NAS you want. But don't skimp on the SSD drives if you want your data to be safe too.
 

bvz

New Around Here
Thank you for the thorough explanation.

Seems like I will look at NAS ready SSD's. And if it is too expensive I will just lug around my ds216j till the prices come down.

Thanks.

Edit:

Just saw a WD Red NAS ready 1TB SSD for only $10 more than the EVO. So the price difference really isn't all that much anyway. Thanks again.
 

avtella

Very Senior Member
The WD Red SSD vs a 860 EVO won’t make much difference neither have power loss protection and TBWs aren’t too far off, if anything Samsung is usually pretty conservative in TBW estimates. The Samsung probably has better/more consistent performance as the drive starts to fill. The WD Red is just a WD Blue with possibly some firmware tweaks, from reviews I’ve seen. Between the two I’d actually go for the Samsung if at equal prices. Both will last much longer than the “Warrantied TBW”. You can increase OP to get much higher TBW if needed, plus any empty space is used as OP by the controller anyway.

The Micron 1100 lower end enterprise drive and its consumer version the Crucial MX500 both have capacitors for a certain degree of power loss protection. Both of these have much lower warrantied TBW than the other two above but still good drives.

Now Iron Wolf has power failure protection and are higher tier drives. Also have more factory default overprovisioning (hence why you have 1.92 TB usable vs 2 TB on most standard drives) to increase drive life. A nice chunk of the write endurance comes from the extra factory OP. And those also probably use eTLC, just higher quality TLC NAND.

TLDR: If it’s just home use then get the EVO or any decent SSD, unless you have some need for power loss protection or unusually high write loads, in which case something like the IronWolf / IronWolf Pro or Samsung Enterprise drives would be better.
 
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bvz

New Around Here
avtella,

Thanks for the detailed info.

I think then, in the light of your explanation, that I might go for the Samsung drives. The write load I have on these drives is going to be VERY low. Essentially I am a single user (my wife will on rare occasion write to the NAS, but on the order of megabytes per month) and even my write loads are going to be minimal. I generally don't write all that much data day to day unless I have picked up a side gig. So I suspect that my usage would be measured in megabytes per day (at most a gigabyte) on average - in the form of months of nothing written and then a short burst of a few tens of gigabytes per day for a few weeks. From my calculations, the Samsung 2TB would last me about 32 years even if I wrote 100GB a day every single day.

And I will be using it in a RAID array to improve data reliability. I also run an offline backup (both cloud based as well as external drives) on top of it. Data integrity is important to me, but my needs and expectations are in line with what I would expect from a local drive on my local machine.

Thanks again! Now I just have to decide whether the cost is worth the portability/energy savings. Somehow I feel more comfortable with this upgrade than continuing to rely on my ds216j and its spinning rust (perhaps because one of them already died and I am just gun shy now).
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
@bvz I'll quote myself the important info for your consideration.

However, don't think that saving a bit of money and using the NAS less will offset the lower Endurance of the Samsung EVO. Those specifications are for NAS vs. normal laptop or desktop usage and can't be compared directly (I would assume half or less of the TBW rating, and that would be only if the NAS os had TRIM enabled too for the desktop-class EVO).
 

avtella

Very Senior Member
You did say that...

So maybe the RED drives after all.
It’s actually not that black and white. Not all NAS SSDs are true enterprise for lack of a better word. In this case Red and EVO can definitely be compared even TBW wise, even with enterprise oriented firmware tweaks on the Blue making it Red. The EVO has a superior controller and from the few reviews I saw, more consistent performance as the drive fills. As previously mentioned TBW for both is decent and will last much longer than warrantied, Samsung is generally more conservative. For what it's worth I use a mix of 2xToshiba's HDDs and 2xSSDs in my Netgear ReadyNAS 524X, my SSDs being the much older Crucial MX100s from 2014, I'm considering getting 860 EVOs myself as they're cheaper for me with discounts, I was about to get the Reds until I looked past the labeling and did some more research and figured not much difference.

Don’t simply go by labels especially after what multiple drive manufacturers including WD pulled with SMR drives advertising them for RAID, they backtracked after some outrage and enough testing by reviewers. Also for example the MyDigital BPX and Corsair MP500 used the same Toshiba NAND and Phison controller (no special firmware) yet the BPX was warranted for higher TBW meaning Corsair was just being more conservative and also MyDigital was probably confident enough you’d be past the years of warranty before the average user hit the warranted TBW.

Also when L&LD talks about garbage collection and endurance, A combination of a better controller and extra OP (sometimes in the form of just less user space and sometimes actual extra NAND) allow some of the better enterprise drives to perform more consistently even with a lack of TRIM, and have lower write amplification and better endurance. Some of the higher end drives also use eTLC. The Red doesn’t have any of these advantages over the EVO other than only a slightly higher paper TBW (warranty) not actual life.

For home use as I said before either is fine. Go for which ever is priced better honestly, they are both at the same tier.

As for actual warranty service, I never had failures with Samsung so I can’t comment on them but I’ve returned quite a few consumer WDs (HDDs a while back) and I can say they had an excellent cross shipping service and very responsive.
 
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