What is "asd" process?

[RMerlin]

This is generally true for server drives, but not true for HDDs used in archiving systems, they are designed for intermittent operation, continuous operation drastically reduces the lifespan.

Source? Because from a physical standpoint, there's no way that these would behave differently from any other hard drive. They both get put under stress when being spun up (unless they were spinning up much slower than a different drive, that the head parking/unparking system was also completely different).

The main differences between all these classes of hard drives lies in warranty and firmware.

 

[zitev]

Source? Because from a physical standpoint, there's no way that these would behave differently from any other hard drive. They both get put under stress when being spun up (unless they were spinning up much slower than a different drive, that the head parking/unparking system was also completely different).

The main differences between all these classes of hard drives lies in warranty and firmware.

for example: "..

Does sleep mode decrease hard drive life span?​

Sleep mode is designed to protect and preserve the lifespan of a hard drive by reducing power consumption and usage during times when the drive is not required. HDDs in laptops are susceptible to impacts and movements that could damage the disks by forcing them to collide with the read/write head. Powering off in sleep mode reduces the risk of this happening by turning off the hard drive ensuring that the head is on the ramp and not over the disks. Most modern hard drives particularly 2.5″ drives for laptops are also equipped with an accelerometer that can detect sudden movements and pull the head back to the ramp for the same reason..."

Is sleep mode bad for a Hard Drive? – Harddrive Talk

harddrivetalk.com

the consumer usage conditions are far from ideal in a server environment, the hdd is on a desk, it experiences vibrations, it can get hot, the material gets tired, etc. if there is no need for continuous use (e.g. in the case of a dlna server, the operating time is a maximum of 1-2 times a day), then why should the device run continuously - this will only wear it out sooner, the bearings will wear out, the capacitor will dry out, etc. I think this is an understandable and non-disputable point.

 

[L&LD]

Mobile HDDs, maybe. Because the tradeoff of turning off the drive (battery savings, catastrophic head crashes, etc.) is worth the offset of the shorter lifespan.

Anything used on a desktop/NAS (and particularly the latest examples and specifically NAS-specific drives), not so much. Leave the drive powered up and turned on indefinitely, and it may outlive you.

Material doesn't get 'tired' when it's in a steady state (i.e. left on). It gets 'tired' when it cycles continuously between being cold/immobile, humid, etc., and fully warmed up and working to specs.

These points are indisputable.

 

[ColinTaylor]

for example: "..

Does sleep mode decrease hard drive life span?​

Sleep mode is designed to protect and preserve the lifespan of a hard drive by reducing power consumption and usage during times when the drive is not required. HDDs in laptops are susceptible to impacts and movements that could damage the disks by forcing them to collide with the read/write head. Powering off in sleep mode reduces the risk of this happening by turning off the hard drive ensuring that the head is on the ramp and not over the disks. Most modern hard drives particularly 2.5″ drives for laptops are also equipped with an accelerometer that can detect sudden movements and pull the head back to the ramp for the same reason..."

Is sleep mode bad for a Hard Drive? – Harddrive Talk

harddrivetalk.com

the consumer usage conditions are far from ideal in a server environment, the hdd is on a desk, it experiences vibrations, it can get hot, the material gets tired, etc. if there is no need for continuous use (e.g. in the case of a dlna server, the operating time is a maximum of 1-2 times a day), then why should the device run continuously - this will only wear it out sooner, the bearings will wear out, the capacitor will dry out, etc. I think this is an understandable and non-disputable point.

There's nothing there that says anything about "archiving systems" or "drastically reduces the lifespan". It's just talking about normal laptop hard drive usage and the dangers from physical impacts. The question wasn't whether a hard drive constantly spinning reduces its lifespan, it was "does it reduce it more compared to having to spin it up and down". In either case is the lifespan reduced by an amount that would actually matter?

 

[zitev]

Mobile HDDs, maybe. Because the tradeoff of turning off the drive (battery savings, catastrophic head crashes, etc.) is worth the offset of the shorter lifespan.

Anything used on a desktop/NAS (and particularly the latest examples and specifically NAS-specific drives), not so much. Leave the drive powered up and turned on indefinitely, and it may outlive you.

Material doesn't get 'tired' when it's in a steady state (i.e. left on). It gets 'tired' when it cycles continuously between being cold/immobile, humid, etc., and fully warmed up and working to specs.

These points are indisputable.

we do not agree with this, a continuously operated hdd wears out much sooner, if only because of the operating conditions, as if it is switched on only for the time of use - the router is not a NAS target hardware, it is not suitable for this kind of use, but it is suitable as a family media server, sftp and spend most of the time in suspended mode after infrequent use. don't spin the hdds unnecessarily, not even for energy management reasons, but if the device is not in an ideal environment, then its lifespan will clearly be drastically reduced due to continuous operation.

 

[L&LD]

Yes, we don't agree with each other on these points (at all).

We are talking about a home environment, correct? There cannot be a more ideal situation for this hardware (assuming the drives are running within their specs, (temps, humidity, etc.), as always).

I've had more than a few drives running for 10 to 15 years with no negative effects (Hitachi's). The WD's in my two NAS' hasn't been turned off (regularly) since 2015. A NAS from 2008 is still going with the original drives (WD's, if memory serves right now).

This is not a logic debate (if it were, I would be inclined to agree with your statements). This is how actual HDDs work in the real world.

And as already mentioned, the link you gave is for mobile HDDs and the potential for physical damage to them from shock (and again, shock past their specs).

 

[zitev]

Yes, we don't agree with each other on these points (at all).

We are talking about a home environment, correct? There cannot be a more ideal situation for this hardware (assuming the drives are running within their specs, (temps, humidity, etc.), as always).

I've had more than a few drives running for 10 to 15 years with no negative effects (Hitachi's). The WD's in my two NAS' hasn't been turned off (regularly) since 2015. A NAS from 2008 is still going with the original drives (WD's, if memory serves right now).

This is not a logic debate (if it were, I would be inclined to agree with your statements). This is how actual HDDs work in the real world.

And as already mentioned, the link you gave is for mobile HDDs and the potential for physical damage to them from shock (and again, shock past their specs).

ok, the question was not how to operate a specific hdd, which the manufacturer originally designed for intermittent operation, because it is not based on your idea, but on public data - so I (and anyone) can decide how I want operate my own device accordingly. the question was how to permanently prevent the unwanted operational feature that prevents the safe operation of the hdd and drastically reduces its lifespan.

 

[Pabla]

I have been running my HDD without letting it spin down for the better part of 8 years without any issues. I would guess if my cheap best buy HDD were to fail bc of constantly allowing it to spin, it would’ve by now.

 

[L&LD]

ok, the question was not how to operate a specific hdd, which the manufacturer originally designed for intermittent operation, because it is not based on your idea, but on public data - so I (and anyone) can decide how I want operate my own device accordingly. the question was how to permanently prevent the unwanted operational feature that prevents the safe operation of the hdd and drastically reduces its lifespan.

The manufacturer hasn't designed it for intermittent operation though. That is your belief.

And the public data supports my points more than it supports yours.

The points I'm making are not mine. They are the industries' observations. Leaving drives spinning has been proven safe for the last 55 years. It's the change of state that causes issues, not the steady state use.

As to the question of how to let the HDD spin down, you need to wait for updated firmware. See, that was easy.

 

[zitev]

I have been running my HDD without letting it spin down for the better part of 8 years without any issues. I would guess if my cheap best buy HDD were to fail bc of constantly allowing it to spin, it would’ve by now.

we cannot know this, nor the opposite, the operating parameters are not based on assumptions. the given device must be operated as prescribed by the manufacturer. it is not a server, it is not operated with a drive intended for a server, under non-server operating conditions. the more a hdd spins, the more its lifespan decreases, this is logical and can be verified technically. there is a specific operating hour, which once the device reaches, reliable operation can no longer be expected from that point on. if you reduce the operating time, the useful life increases. it's logical..

 

[Pabla]

we cannot know this, nor the opposite, the operating parameters are not based on assumptions. the given device must be operated as prescribed by the manufacturer. it is not a server, it is not operated with a drive intended for a server, under non-server operating conditions. the more a hdd spins, the more its lifespan decreases, this is logical and can be verified technically. there is a specific operating hour, which once the device reaches, reliable operation can no longer be expected from that point on. if you reduce the operating time, the useful life increases. it's logical..

To preserve this thread let’s just agree to disagree

 

[zitev]

To preserve this thread let’s just agree to disagree

I think it was obvious even without you writing it here.

 

[L&LD]

You keep making the same wrong assumptions. Simply spinning, the drive isn't wearing out. Period.

The drive needs to be in use (i.e. actively writing/reading) to be counted as being 'in use'.

How Long Do Hard Drives Last? Lifespan And Signs Of Failure (prosofteng.com)

Have a look at what professionals know and use in the link above. Nowhere is there mention of 'saving' the drive by spinning it down.

Western Digital Unveils Dual Actuator Ultrastar DC HS760 20TB HDD (anandtech.com)

Look at the link above. That is an advanced HDD with many tricks. Something that is the same as normal consumer versions though is the 'annual workload', which, for this HDD is 500TB per year, rated for 5 years.

Put this in perspective, that is 2,500 TB written over five years before failure should happen. Apply this to any home use case, and you'll see many times the 'five' year warranty' being easily surpassed.

Sure, consumer drives may not offer an annual workload as high as this brand new, specialized drive. But I'll let you do your research to see where they may fall with 'home use'.

As blunt as possible, mere platters spinning isn't what kills a HDD. The actual use of making it write data does.

 

[Tech9]

This is generally true for server drives, but not true for HDDs used in archiving systems, they are designed for intermittent operation, continuous operation drastically reduces the lifespan.

I know what's inside most of HDD's on the market and I can tell you same manufacturer drives usually share the mechanical parts. WD Green, WD Red and WD Purple have exactly the same mechanical parts with differences in firmware and marketing. Purple is about 2x the price of Green. If left spinning they all will have the same expected life and longer than intermittent use with multiple spin up/down cycles. Some WD drives are even marketed as 5400-class, but in fact are 7200rpm drives. An example of such drive is WD80EDAZ and you can get one in form of BestBuy's WD Elements or EasyStore for $150, but you can also get the same drive as WD Ultrastar or WD Gold datacenter drives for $300. There is more marketing involved than you can imagine.

the more a hdd spins, the more its lifespan decreases

Just the opposite. You stress the drive mechanically and thermally on every power on/off and spin up/down cycle reducing the lifespan. This is valid for all mechanical drives no matter how they are marketed. Even MTBF data is manipulated because for server/datacenter drives the manufacturer expects 24/7 operation in temperature controlled environment and corresponding lower failure rate. Did I mention marketing involved above?

 

[zitev]

You keep making the same wrong assumptions. Simply spinning, the drive isn't wearing out. Period.

The drive needs to be in use (i.e. actively writing/reading) to be counted as being 'in use'.

How Long Do Hard Drives Last? Lifespan And Signs Of Failure (prosofteng.com)

Have a look at what professionals know and use in the link above. Nowhere is there mention of 'saving' the drive by spinning it down.

Western Digital Unveils Dual Actuator Ultrastar DC HS760 20TB HDD (anandtech.com)

Look at the link above. That is an advanced HDD with many tricks. Something that is the same as normal consumer versions though is the 'annual workload', which, for this HDD is 500TB per year, rated for 5 years.

Put this in perspective, that is 2,500 TB written over five years before failure should happen. Apply this to any home use case, and you'll see many times the 'five' year warranty' being easily surpassed.

Sure, consumer drives may not offer an annual workload as high as this brand new, specialized drive. But I'll let you do your research to see where they may fall with 'home use'.

As blunt as possible, mere platters spinning isn't what kills a HDD. The actual use of making it write data does.

in fact, it's especially good if an electromechanical device works continuously and is never turned off - we're slowly getting to the point where marketing BS dominates the thread... because asd constantly forces the hdd to read (indiscriminately any type, not only new, but any old construction), there is an increased risk of premature death (see also the frequent cases when, after a disk replacement in a raid controller, another of the other disks that had worked well until then dies during synchronization). you can do marketing here in addition to the unfortunate solution, I'm only interested in the fact that the disk is not driven by unnecessary and unnecessary scanning.

 

[L&LD]

Change of tune, huh? At least a little?

Unnecessary scanning is totally separate from what you were bent on proving before (and failing to do so).

The physics of simply and only spinning platters for a decade or more has effectively been solved, and perfected, for a long time now. Regardless of your belief to the contrary. This isn't rocket science (and yes, HDD have gone to space too).

Scanning needlessly is a separate issue. And one which I've already touched on.

As to the question of how to let the HDD spin down, you need to wait for updated firmware. See, that was easy.

 

[zitev]

Change of tune, huh? At least a little?

Unnecessary scanning is totally separate from what you were bent on proving before (and failing to do so).

The physics of simply and only spinning platters for a decade or more has effectively been solved, and perfected, for a long time now. Regardless of your belief to the contrary. This isn't rocket science (and yes, HDD have gone to space too).

Scanning needlessly is a separate issue. And one which I've already touched on.

I do not know what you're thinking! If the rotation of the hdd did not matter, these parameters would not be logged by e.g. smart (spin up time, spin retry count, seek time performance (they are related to wear and tear). These data can be trivialized here, but they are all important and count from the point of view of the operating time. The more operating hours a hdd goes, the more likely it will fail, so it is completely pointless for you to explain that it will not be a problem if an electromechanical device works aimlessly 24 hours a day, just because the router's firmware creator did not pay attention to this!

 

[L&LD]

Lol...

So the actual observed use of these devices (HDDs) isn't to be believed then? Okay.

Yes, stats make everything 'true', even with continually false assumptions.

An HDD wears when it is writing data, and to a much smaller extent, when it is reading data. Other power 'on' usage is negligible. Whether you want to believe it, or not.

 

[RMerlin]

Locking this, as this has deviated long enough from the original post. The original post was answered, and the disk content scanning issue is already reported as fixed upstream by Asus.