Why not to use a VPN

[sfx2000]

@Nullity - I know you're very passionate about privacy, so am I, and I think most people here are...

Getting back on thread/topic - VPN, it's a virtual private network between two points - there is no guarantee of privacy once it's leaves an exit node, that's not it's purpose - I use VPN's all the time in my day job, and I have a VPN end-point at the edge of my home network as well...

TOR - it's really all about pattern recognition, and given enough resources, the sources and sinks will be found, it's been done time and time again - to the chagrin of people that do not understand onion routing, and upstream routing/capabilites - WikiLeaks is another great example of what happens when people use the wrong tool for the job...

I'm not going to start citing specific examples, rather, I would encourage you to dig deeper yourself and understand the issue - there's a good reason why I don't use TOR, and being an experienced large scale network engineer, I have my reasons, and I'll keep them to myself, I've said enough..

 

[Nullity]

A major problem with Tor is the low-latency design because it makes pattern recognition much easier.

That is why I only use RFC1149 compliant anonymity services, and I hope to see Tor support this standard in the near future.

 

[L&LD]

A major problem with Tor is the low-latency design because it makes pattern recognition much easier.

That is why I only use RFC1149 compliant anonymity services, and I hope to see Tor support this standard in the near future.

That links to a 1990 paper. Doesn't seem something that would be secure or anonymous in 2015 / 16.

 

[Nullity]

That links to a 1990 paper. Doesn't seem something that would be secure or anonymous in 2015 / 16.

My bad. I should have stuck to citing serious, non-comedic sources.

The RFC I linked was meant as a joke to lighten the seeming tense mood of this thread.

The linked RFC document is titled "A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers" with a date of "April 1". I assumed it would be taken as a joke, since the RFC is a joke, but I obviously am no comic genius, especially when text has no punctuation mark to express sarcasm.


Disregard my poor attempts at humor.

 

[L&LD]

My bad. I should have stuck to citing serious, non-comedic sources.

The RFC I linked was meant as a joke to lighten the seeming tense mood of this thread.

The linked RFC document is titled "A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams on Avian Carriers" with a date of "April 1". I assumed it would be taken as a joke, since the RFC is a joke, but I obviously am no comic genius, especially when text has no punctuation mark to express sarcasm.


Disregard my poor attempts at humor.

Hey, no problem.

Reminds me of Sheldon (Big Bang) when he's making jokes at an awards ceremony that mostly (only) rocket scientists would understand.

This thread is just above my comprehension level, the joke was great (too bad I needed it explained to me).

 

[Nullity]

Hey, no problem.

Reminds me of Sheldon (Big Bang) when he's making jokes at an awards ceremony that mostly (only) rocket scientists would understand.

This thread is just above my comprehension level, the joke was great (too bad I needed it explained to me).

I knew I should have included a smilie/emoticon to hint more clearly that my post may not be serious, but I thought that would ruin the surprise of the "April Fools" RFC.

I always find it strange, how effective a simple emoticon can be when communicating with text. Similarly, the lack of emoticons can create confusion about the writer's intent...

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Thread title should be edited....it makes a blanket statement about VPNs. However the actual subject matter is the debate about using VPNs as a transparent anonymous proxy for those tin foil hat wearers that want to hide their internet activities. I have zero interest in that matter...could care less.

However, a huge percentage of VPNs (possibly larger percentage)...is in the use of business networks, and remote access of the office network and services for "remote staff". VPNs are employed for security of the transmission of data. VPNs are also used to connect multiple sites...creating wide area networks. In these cases...source and destination being know....nobody cares. As long as the data traveling in the VPN tunnel is secured as it traverses the public highways.

To me...that last paragraph states reason TO use a VPN.

 

[Nullity]

Absolutist, blanket statements are a popular theme in this thread.

Surely there are numerous reasons to use a VPN, but this particular thread is about anonymity. I think the thread's title is fine, though it could perhaps have "Opinion" prepended...

 

[sfx2000]

A major problem with Tor is the low-latency design because it makes pattern recognition much easier.

What's interesting is that most Tor compromises are not due to design issues, but people issues - including being predictable and crossing streams (Tor use alongside non-Tor usage for example)...

Link here for some tips on what not to do when thinking about Tor and usage...

https://www.whonix.org/wiki/DoNot

 

[System Error Message]

Thread title should be edited....it makes a blanket statement about VPNs. However the actual subject matter is the debate about using VPNs as a transparent anonymous proxy for those tin foil hat wearers that want to hide their internet activities. I have zero interest in that matter...could care less.

However, a huge percentage of VPNs (possibly larger percentage)...is in the use of business networks, and remote access of the office network and services for "remote staff". VPNs are employed for security of the transmission of data. VPNs are also used to connect multiple sites...creating wide area networks. In these cases...source and destination being know....nobody cares. As long as the data traveling in the VPN tunnel is secured as it traverses the public highways.

To me...that last paragraph states reason TO use a VPN.

The main discussion about this thread is the difference between a proxy and a vpn and which use cases would be better for which and that many are using the wrong product for a particular use case. There is so much marketing going on for vpn but the use cases that have been marketed (such as anonimity and security) are what a proxy offer and not a vpn.

 

[Nullity]

Let's be more precise with our claims.

Anonymity from who?

Omniscient being? No.
Script kiddie? Yes.
Something in between? Maybe.

 

[System Error Message]

when using the internet. a proxy can be encrypted to prevent ISP spying but it also hides your identity at the same time whereas a vpn doesnt hide your identity. There are also other uses as well but what im trying to discuss here is the main difference between a proxy and a vpn and which we should use when we need to do something particular rather than having a vpn as a fashion thing.

 

[Nullity]

Your ISP sees you connect to the proxy. From the perspective of your ISP, a proxy is no more anonymous than a VPN.

Like I said, it depends on who you are trying to hide your identity from.

 

[System Error Message]

what i meant was that while both a vpn and a proxy hide your data from ISP they provide different features.

 

[Nullity]

Thread title should be edited....it makes a blanket statement about VPNs. However the actual subject matter is the debate about using VPNs as a transparent anonymous proxy for those tin foil hat wearers that want to hide their internet activities. I have zero interest in that matter...could care less.

However, a huge percentage of VPNs (possibly larger percentage)...is in the use of business networks, and remote access of the office network and services for "remote staff". VPNs are employed for security of the transmission of data. VPNs are also used to connect multiple sites...creating wide area networks. In these cases...source and destination being know....nobody cares. As long as the data traveling in the VPN tunnel is secured as it traverses the public highways.

To me...that last paragraph states reason TO use a VPN.

Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant

I just saw this posted on Hacker News, so I thought I would share. Within the past few years I went from thinking as you did to someone who thinks the figurative "tin foil hat wearers" are actually the more logical ones.

I usually try to avoid thinking of privacy. Ignorance is bliss (until it is the foundation on which you build your paranoia... heh).

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

The main discussion about this thread is ....

Right..which is why I hinted at the "subject"...the title of the thread, not the body of the thread.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant

I just saw this posted on Hacker News, so I thought I would share. Within the past few years I went from thinking as you did to someone who thinks the figurative "tin foil hat wearers" are actually the more logical ones.

I usually try to avoid thinking of privacy. Ignorance is bliss (until it is the foundation on which you build your paranoia... heh).

Turns it into a political debate. I am of the camp...that, well...decades ago, the government was much stricter...and monitored civilians in many ways we don't know about, and the gov't had the balls to keep the media shut down. But following your post above...starts to take things too political...a debate I don't care to go into with the decline of our country . But quite bluntly...if the gov't needs to snoop to keep things like terrorism at bay, IMO...I don't care. They can watch me looking at midget porn all the want.

 

[sfx2000]

Why privacy is important, and having "nothing to hide" is irrelevant

I just saw this posted on Hacker News, so I thought I would share. Within the past few years I went from thinking as you did to someone who thinks the figurative "tin foil hat wearers" are actually the more logical ones.

Riposte...

NSA policy via Snowden disclosures...

In the context of a cryptanalytic effort, maintenance of technical data bases requires retention of all communications that are enciphered or reasonably believed to contain secret meaning, and sufficient duration may consist of any period of time during which encrypted material is subject to, or of use in, cryptanalysis.​

 

[yorgi]

Look at this site http://proxy-services-review.toptenreviews.com/
PIA is considered a proxy server as well LOL
So many accusations and 0 proof of anything. You guys remind me of a broken record
thanks for nothing but I will keep my trusty VPN
Oh and as for proxy servers can someone let us know of any paying ones since they are so secure?
cheers

 

[L&LD]

Look at this site http://proxy-services-review.toptenreviews.com/
PIA is considered a proxy server as well LOL
So many accusations and 0 proof of anything. You guys remind me of a broken record
thanks for nothing but I will keep my trusty VPN
Oh and as for proxy servers can someone let us know of any paying ones since they are so secure?
cheers

http://www.sitejabber.com/reviews/www.toptenreviews.com

So, you bought the sales pitch, drank the cool aid and joined the cult.