Windows 2003 with SBS 2003 - Go from RAID to non-RAID?

[crashnburn]

Windows 2003 with SBS 2003 - Go from RAID to non-RAID?

I currently have Windows 2003 with SBS 2003 running on 4 HDDs (2paired mirrors).

Is it possible to unpair / unRAID these HDDs and/or migrate them exactly and completely to another non-RAID machine?

I.e. Go from RAID to non-RAID completely (unRaid both Pairs) or partially (unRaid ) 1 of the pairs / volumes.

I know this is more of a Windows 20003 / SBS 2003 questions but I wasnt sure if I could find a better forum to ask.

Do advise or point me in the right direction. Thanks

 

[Osamede]

http://arstechnica.com/civis/
In the second section ("Operating Systems & Software"), you can ask this question within the "Windows Technical Mojo" area. You'll get an answer quite rapidly.

Arstechnica is a great forum in general by the way. One of the best on the net. SMB is of course better for home networking questions, but hey they cant be perfect at everything! ;-)

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Is it software RAID? Or hardware RAID?
With software RAID...yes, very easily done. Break the mirror, bounce the server, done. Done in disk mangement.

With hardware RAID, I am going to guess it's not guaranteed with all RAID controllers, but many can...similar function, break the mirror. The RAID is done outside of the OS, when you're doing hardware. So Windows itself will not know if the RAID is functional or not. Just tell the controller that the mirror is broke, and you should be done.

You could also just use a disk/drive/partition cloning software to clone the image to new drives.

Question though...with SBS usually being quite important (all your data/files/e-mail/active directory/etc)...why risk running without the protection of RAID?

And you have the potential of an ugly "migration" if you just plan on "moving" those drives to a new machine. That first bootup will be..uhm...interesting...to say the least.

For a lot of my clients where their SBS install is moved to new hardware, I've been using ESXi. There are also many cloning programs which do restore to different hardware (bare metal restore).

 

[crashnburn]

Its Software RAID.

Break the mirror, bounce the server, done. Done in disk mangement.

Is it as simple as 'Click' & done in Disk Management? I'll look it up.

Its not a huge installation. i.e. 15 clients on SBS that pulls email from a mail host via POP.

And you have the potential of an ugly "migration" if you just plan on "moving" those drives to a new machine. That first bootup will be..uhm...interesting...to say the least.

Do elaborate?

For a lot of my clients where their SBS install is moved to new hardware, I've been using ESXi. There are also many cloning programs which do restore to different hardware (bare metal restore).

Which programs do you recommend? (for bare metal restore)?

I do have Acronis Disk Director & Image Echo Server (Bootable DOS/WinPE CD version).

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Yes, in Disk Mangler (disk management)...you'll see the RAID volume...and with the mouse/GUI...just break the mirror. "Break Mirrored Volume" is the correct verbiage if I recall..

The next reboot you may find she auto kicks into a checkdisk...don't worry.

What is the hardware it's moving too?

Similar make/model server? Or totally different, all new generation?

Just..before seeing you make this step, I'm curious as to the reasoning. Old server getting very old and slow/tired? Lotsa miles on her?

 

[crashnburn]

Server is doing fine. Not slow at all.. I think its a Dual Xeon & RAID. Too much hardware for too little work. I hate vendors who oversell what you dont need.

It only provides MS Proxy (for limited net usage for 4 or so users) and then Exchange on SBS that POPs email from a web/mail host and allows 15/20 clients to access that email.

Should it need all that?

Why change.. Its low on HDD space (I am guessing some crappy log files.. and Exchange Mail becoming too large.. I gotta see and clear up).

I dont see any point in putting any more hardware into her existing 4 SCSI drives.. unless its as simple as me popping in my 180Gb spare PATA drive, just for the SPACE.

In 6-9 months I am hoping to move them (its family's SMB) to a proper system of apps, servers & etc. so this is a temporary fix until we do a revamp and assess, if we really need more hardware.

How they use this and another server for trivial stuff is just stupid. But thats we get for ignoring family... imagine 5000+ excel files of information thats gotten collected over some years.. that should've gone into a Database... / integrated app being shared by 20 or so users via Shared Files / Folders.

Do you think you might be able to guide me in "fixing" / compacting the MS Exchange on this SBS instance or do I have to go lurking around MSDN / Technet ??

 

[crashnburn]

Yes, in Disk Mangler (disk management)...you'll see the RAID volume...and with the mouse/GUI...just break the mirror. "Break Mirrored Volume" is the correct verbiage if I recall..

The next reboot you may find she auto kicks into a checkdisk...don't worry.

What is the hardware it's moving too?

Similar make/model server? Or totally different, all new generation?

Just..before seeing you make this step, I'm curious as to the reasoning. Old server getting very old and slow/tired? Lotsa miles on her?

Isn't there a less destructive way to do this?

 

[crashnburn]

YeOldCat - Any thoughts on the above?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Morning. Apologize for the delay...some hectic days I'm amidst.

Lets sort of start over here....as I'm seeing some mixed data...software RAID, and potentially hardware RAID.

What is the make/model of the server?
And for the hard drive setup...you mention dual Xeon and RAID..so I'm thinking there's hardware RAID in there. So there's 4x SCSI drives...how are they setup? Is there any hardware RAID controller making a pair of mirrors?

With SBS...you want 2x spindles available to the OS..meaning 2x RAID volumes. The first one can be smaller...20, 40, 80 gigs...for the "C" drive..to install the OS to. The second volume I usually make much larger..and that's for the data..and for the Exchange InfoStore, as well as other SBS related stuff....WSUS, Sharepoint, Users Shared Folders, CompanyShare, and if running SQL...that too (although I'll often do a 3rd volume for SQL)

So with my typical SBS installs (SBS is my bread and butter as an SMB consultant..I use it for most of my clients)....I'll do a RAID 1 for the OS, and a RAID 5 or RAID 10 for the data.

Now...lets back peddle a bit...and if you could please reply with more specifics of your current server setup. CPU(s), RAM, and...you mention 4x SCSI drives. Any hardware RAID being done to present volumes to the OS? Or does the OS see 4x raw drives..and you're using software RAID to make 2 pairs?

Next...using My Computer...how much space total..and how much space consumed..of say, the C and D drives?

Next..how many users total, as far as SBS clients/CALs? I see you mention 4x local web users..and then I see you mention 15-20 e-mail users? Are these remote e-mail users? Using OWA or Outlook Anywhere?

I see you mention MS Proxy..that's the old name of that product, with SBS they used the newer version, ISA. So is this SBS Premium which includes ISA Server? Meaning your SBS box would be multi homed...(2x NICs).

I'm hesitant ....actually, I'm reluctant..to say stop using RAID. There can be quite a few options we have for freeing up disk space. Exchange store being too large...how so? She'll start spitting errors when the store reaches 16 gigs...but with proper service packs and a few regedits...Exchange supports much large stores now.

I'm sporadic in being online this weekend...we're furniture shopping for some moving ahead of us...sold house, purchased new one....plus it's boating season so getting the boat ready. And busy next week doing a large WAN cutover for a womens shelter client of mine....but I'll be on and offline, and willing/wanting to help, if you're not in a rush to get this done. I'll offer to help remotely on your server if you'd like.

 

[crashnburn]

I myself have been unable to get back on this project. But will do soon and will let you know MORE details - All the HW/Sw etc.

I hope you're enjoying the lovely summer waters

 

[crashnburn]

This is what I have / remember so far.

Software RAID using SBS 2003 with 4 Physical HDDs:

C & D are mirrored on the 2 Disks as shown below:

Disk 0: |---C---||---D---|
Disk 1: |---C---||---D---|---Unformatted Empty Space--|

E is mirrored on the 2 Disks as shown below:

Disk 2: |----------------------E---------------------|
Disk 3: |----------------------E---------------------|

I can remember the sizes right now but I will post soon.

Disk 0: 30 or so GB
Disk 1: 60 or so GB
Disk 2, 3: I think 160 GB

C - X GB ..
D - Y GB ..
E - Z GB .. I think 160 GB

X < Y < Z

C
- is the System Partition running out of HDD space

D
- is an old partition that is not used anymore as the data that D was used for was migrated to E

Of course, the engineers left D as it is in case something went wrong.
Unfortunately, this was few years back and they never cleared D out.
Now... D is not of use anymore.

E
- is the SBS / Exchange Data partition


WHAT I WANT TO DO ...

Expand C by deleting or minimizing D (D minimized would purely be visible as Drive Letter 'D' blocker so that the 'E' can function as it does)

One of 2 ways I was thinking:

METHOD A - Using Acronis Disk Director Server Suite etc.. If it supports resizing mirrored volumes

METHOD B - Long process.. Steps below...

- Disk Volume Manager: Remove Mirror... or Break Mirror... command on D
- Disk Volume Manager or Acronis Partition Management: Resize / Shift D on Disk 1 to end of drive ... Unformatted Space.. Minimize or clean out.. and keep at end of Disk 1

- EXPAND C as Mirrored Volume:
Using Acronis Suite stuff...
OR...
Break / Remove Mirror on C
Resize C using Acronis...
Remake Mirror C in Disk 0 and 1

Thoughts?

PS: Some additional online threads..
Resize Dynamic / Mirrored NTFS partitions
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=54710

http://www.wirelessforums.org/alt-c...ion-size-raid-mirrored-disk-volume-14991.html

http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-resize-raid-partitions-shrink-and-grow-software-raid
http://www.howtoforge.com/how-to-resize-raid-partitions-shrink-and-grow-software-raid-p2

http://www.lowtek.ca/roo/2010/how-to-resize-a-mirrored-volume/