Wireless Mode questions [WAP behind a Infrustructure Mode]

[grayles]

Can one have a WAP connected to a WAP is in infrastructure mode; that is connected to a different network?

The reason why i want to do this is because i want to connect my middle floor to upstairs. Ethernet cabling, drilling, MOCA, Powerline are all impracticable-impossible. Basically the WAP upstairs will be broadcasting a different SSID on a different channel which is connected to the WAP which is in infrastructure mode, connected to the router in the middle floor.

Could anyone recommend any combinations of routers and WAP preferably high gain and performance as its gotta go through 220mm floor which is grade 32 and double brick walls when broadcasting on the floor. All end devices use 1-3 streams of N mostly 2-3 and dbi is important as phones don't have all that strong sending strength. Omni direction preferred as it will be in the centre of the house. Replaceable antennas is a plus.

OR

Should i ditch that idea and just get a universal repeater?

P.S. Does infrastructure mode support multiple devices behind it (Ethernet) or cut bandwidth in half like bridge mode?

Sorry i dont know if this should go in buying or general... its a bit of both.

 

[grayles]

Different idea,

If i had my

<e4200 SSID:1 > <WAP610N Bridge SSID:2><WAP610N Bridge SSID:2> <WAP610N AP SSID:3>

Would that work out? Would clients on each side be able to access eachother?

 

[stevech]

yes, bridge link that connects an access point to a switch/router should work. You take your chances with consumer stuff as sometimes it just isn't implemented correctly for non-mainstream applications.

There are vendors with devices that are a simultaneous bridge and access point. Cisco Aironet (not consumer) and likely others.

Why is it that
"...MOCA, Powerline are all impracticable-impossible."
is the case?

The best way extend coverage is by putting an access point (or a re-purposed-as-AP router) in the weak area and connecting it by cat5 or powerline or MoCA, rather than a wireless repeater or wireless bridge link.

 

[grayles]

Well why i wanted to do this setup is so the bridge doesnt cut my bandwidth of SSID 1 and 3 by half, theyll be on different channels and such.

MOCA is not feasible we use the old 59 cabling. Powerline is not possible, house is cut off in grids and are not connected to one another.

Pulling cat5 or any cable from the conduit is not possible, we have double brick walls and endless corners so pulling would be difficult and if it got caught in a corner theres no turning back, also the cable guy who did the coax likely tied the coax in bunches.

 

[stevech]

RG59 may well work for MoCA. Just depends on distances and avoiding too many splitters.

Can you explain about "grids" in your home AC wiring relative to use of powerline? In North America, there are two AC phases, isolated at 60 mains freq. of 60Hz of course- but at hundreds of MHz, often the phases bridge across due to appliances and/or coupling in long 220V cables from the breaker box to the 220V appliance. Worth a try.

WiFi bridge links don't reduce throughput links substantially, so long as they use a frequency/channel that isn't too busy with other traffic, including your own WiFi. Bridges can be on different bands or different channels (1, 6 or 11 in 2.4GHz).

Throughput / speed is halved if you use a WDS repeater. These receive wirelessly then retransmit on the same channel. This half-duplex repeater scheme is why each WDS hop halves the throughput. A bridge link is not a WDS repeater.

You should try MoCA or powerline It may take a little adjusting, but it'll probably work. A WiFi bridge link can work well. A WiFi WDS repeater is most always a PITA on day one or later.

Hope this helps.

 

[grayles]

can you bridge these together?

 

[stevech]

can you bridge these together?

That item is a bridge itself. It must "mate" with a WiFi router or access point. I didn't read its manual, but I assumed these cannot operate as a bridge pair.

It bridges WiFi to/from ethernet. It's a "client bridge", meaning the WiFi router or access point sees it as a client. Just as a PC is a client. But it's a bridge meaning that after it associates to your WiFi network, it copies data to/from its ethernet switch ports - and those ports are connected to IP things like PCs, TVs with ethernet, media player, etc.

This kind of product has to be placed where there is a good WiFi signal from your network. If that place has a weak signal, your choices are:

1. move it where the signal is better. Run a cat5 cable from one port on this Trendnet to where the devices needing service are located. Example: Put bridge up high on furniture, out of sight. Cat5 from goes down in the cabinet in which all your IP devices are located. Or add a 2nd cheap switch so only one cat5 going up is needed.

2. Add an access (AP) point to your WiFi router. Place that AP so that it provides a better signal to/from wherever the Trendnet is located.

3. Don't use the Trendnet. Instead, get a pair of MoCA or powerline devices. Put one at the router and one where the TV/IP devices are. Add a switch if you need multiple IP connections. If you use powerline, check with us re guidelines on use of powerline in AC outlets with filters, etc.

 

[grayles]

Cant do Moca.. also what is hpna?

<Router SSID:1><wes610n bridge wes610n><wap610n SSID:2> is that feasible?

or since bridges cant mate...

<Router SSID:1><wap610n bridge wap610n><wap610n SSID:2> is that feasible?


EDIT:


I googled hpna and i see where you are going i as stated before, MOCA, Cabling etc as i mentioned before is not feasible

 

[grayles]

RG59 may well work for MoCA. Just depends on distances and avoiding too many splitters.

Can you explain about "grids" in your home AC wiring relative to use of HPNA? In North America, there are two AC phases, isolated at 60 mains freq. of 60Hz of course- but at hundreds of MHz, often the phases bridge across due to appliances and/or coupling in long 220V cables from the breaker box to the 220V appliance. Worth a try.

WiFi bridge links don't reduce throughput links substantially, so long as they use a frequency/channel that isn't too busy with other traffic, including your own WiFi. Bridtges can be on different bands or different channels (1, 6 or 11 in 2.4GHz).

Throughput / speed is halved if you use a WDS repeater. These receive wirelessly then retransmit on the same channel. This half-duplex repeater scheme is why each WDS hop halves the throughput. A bridge link is not a WDS repeater.

You should try MoCA or HPNA. It may take a little adjusting, but it'll probably work. A WiFi bridge link can work well. A WiFi WDS repeater is most always a PITA on day one or later.

Hope this helps.

Sorry i missed your above post.

when i say grids it means that each section of the house is cut off from one another, its how my dad wired the house.

Oh bridges dont cut bandwidth in half? I guess i read wrong im sorry.

Also could you explain how moca would work with rg59? I have a 3 story house and about 5 outlets coming from a splitter in the roof. What distance would it start affecting bandwidth?

 

[stevech]

Sorry i missed your above post.

when i say grids it means that each section of the house is cut off from one another, its how my dad wired the house.

what does "cut off" mean? Normally, several circuits run back to the breaker panel or subpanel with each on a separate breaker. That's OK.

 

[grayles]

Well thats how my dad explains it to me..

Even if it was possible i have way too many appliances in this house, several fridges, microwaves, a dishwashers. And i read a PL review that too many 24/7 appliances or strong wattage usage can make PL useless...

So back to RG59 how far does need to be before i see problems? with a .2mm difference in core wouldnt that seriously affect performance?

Also if i was to choose the wirelss path, what would one suggest for hardware...

<router broacasting downstairs SSID:1><bridge upstairs> <AP upstairs connected to the bridge SSID:2>

 

[stevech]

Well thats how my dad explains it to me..

Even if it was possible i have way too many appliances in this house, several fridges, microwaves, a dishwashers. And i read a PL review that too many 24/7 appliances or strong wattage usage can make PL useless...

So back to RG59 how far does need to be before i see problems? with a .2mm difference in core wouldnt that seriously affect performance?

Also if i was to choose the wirelss path, what would one suggest for hardware...

<router broacasting downstairs SSID:1><bridge upstairs> <AP upstairs connected to the bridge SSID:2>

Suggest you get power line network pair from a source with a return policy. Give it a try. Most problems come from plugging the powerline device into
a plug strip that has internal glitch filters - and these attenuate the powerline signal. Also plugging in to same outlet that has an attenuating device. It's likely to work and be plug and play.

RG59 - I'll guess 100-200 ft. You can probably get MoCA to work if there is coax near the router to which you can connect. Then it may just work, or you have to change the splitter arrangement.

If you cannot get either of the above to work, and can't do cat5 wiring, then you last resort, which we can help you with if need be, is WiFi bridges.

 

[grayles]

Suggest you get HPNA power line network pair from a source with a return policy. Give it a try. Most problems come from plugging the HPNA device into
a plug strip that has internal glitch filters - and these attenuate the HPNA signal. Also plugging in to same outlet that has an attenuating device. It's likely to work and be plug and play.

RG59 - I'll guess 100-200 ft. You can probably get MoCA to work if there is coax near the router to which you can connect. Then it may just work, or you have to change the splitter arrangement.

If you cannot get either of the above to work, and can't do cat5 wiring, then you last resort, which we can help you with if need be, is WiFi bridges.

Thanks, ill talk to my dad to see how long one RG59 outlet is to another and do powerline first. Perhaps dicksmith has these.