Best ap/bridge for my new NETGEAR WNDR3700??

[blowhole]

I am going to buy a NETGEAR WNDR3700.

My entertainment system (blu-ray, xbox360, wii, etc.) are downstairs while my cable connection and router and office are upstairs. No chance of running a wire.

What is the best/fastest/most reliable bridge/AP for connecting all those ethernet only devices to my network and new router?? With the desire for a PVR/media PC in the near future.

 

[pat]

I am going to buy a NETGEAR WNDR3700.

My entertainment system (blu-ray, xbox360, wii, etc.) are downstairs while my cable connection and router and office are upstairs. No chance of running a wire.

What is the best/fastest/most reliable bridge/AP for connecting all those ethernet only devices to my network and new router?? With the desire for a PVR/media PC in the near future.

In the review article Tim mentions that the WNDR3700 has a repeater mode so maybe the best (albeit expensive) method would be to buy two of them!

He also goes on to say that repeating/bridging can be enable seperately for each radio.

Pat

 

[thiggins]

Actually, I would not recommend using repeating/bridging, since you automatically suffer a 50% throughput hit. If the WNDR3700 included a wireless client mode, then I'd say yes, buy two.

You might consider the NETGEAR WNHDE111 if you can live with 5 GHz only. Other possible client mode bridges are D-Link DAP-1522, Cisco/Linksys WET610N, and Cisco/Linksys WGA600N. I have not tested any of these with the WNDR3700.

 

[blowhole]

Thanks for getting back to me, gentlemen.

What would be a disadvantage of going with the NETGEAR WNHDE111 and 5ghz only? From router to bridge will only be about 15 feet - second floor to first floor. Will this combo suffice for good performance? Also, will the NETGEAR WNHDE111 accept a 4-8 port switch behind it to handle more devices than the two ethernet ports it comes with?

 

[thiggins]

Let me clarify the throughput loss with repeating/bridging.

The throughput loss does not come from the AP to bridge connection. So if
the path is:
wired client <> WNDR3700 <> wireless connection <> WNDR3700/WNHDE111 <> wired client

you don't get a throughput hit from the bridge.

But if you have a wireless client on either end, then you'll get a >50% throughput hit
for each wireless "hop", i.e. retransmission.

Worst throughput loss would be between wireless clients on both ends of the bridge
because there are two retransmissions.

And yes, the WNHDE111 (or WNDR3700 or any wireless bridge) can be uplinked to a switch for port expansion.

 

[blowhole]

Let me get this straight:

wired client <> WNDR3700 <> wireless connection <> WNHDE111 <> wired client
This scenario will not show a throughput hit?

But if I have this:

wired client <> WNDR3700 <> wireless connection <> WNHDE111 <> wireless client
This WILL show a throughput hit because of the two wireless retransmissions?

If this is the scenario, then I think this is the best bet for me. Please advise.

 

[thiggins]

wired client <> WNDR3700 <> wireless connection <> WNHDE111 <> wireless client
This WILL show a throughput hit because of the two wireless retransmissions?

Actually, that mode won't work.

The WNHDE111 does not use WDS bridging / repeating. It acts as an access point or a wireless to Ethernet bridge. So it can't be part of a WDS bridge and act as an AP to connect wireless clients at the far end of a bridge.
Think of the WNHDE111 as a wireless client with an Ethernet port on it.

Two WNDR3700's can form a bridge and connect wireless clients (if you let them) at both ends of the bridge because they use WDS.

 

[blowhole]

Thanks for helping me, thiggins.

I understand. I don't need a wireless expander, the broadcast of the router itself is more than enough for my household. The vital part is the bridging of ethernet only devices into the network via a wireless bridge. And I think the WNHDE111 is more than able to handle this job. Does the WNHDE111 have a limitation on the number of ethernet devices I can piggy-back onto it via its two ethernet ports?? If not, I am good to go.

 

[thiggins]

No practical limit. Just remember the DHCP server limitation, but that's in the 100s.

 

[blowhole]

No practical limit. Just remember the DHCP server limitation, but that's in the 100s.

Thank you so much for the help!

 

[StewBC]

Hi,

I just want a bit more clarification on using WDS. To help get my question across, I'll use named devices.

MacBook & NAS <> WNDR3700(a) <> wireless <> WNDR3700(b) <> Apple TV & Xbox360

Let's say the NAS and the Xbox360 are wired, the macbook and the apple tv are wireless. WNDR3700(a) is connected to the internet.

In this setup, let's say the WNDR3700 is using WDS on BOTH radios, are the Xbox360 and the MacBook also experiencing 50% throughput loss or is just the AppleTV feeling it?

What happens if I WDS only the 5GHz between the two, and use the 2.4GHz to connect the ATV and MBP - do they now still feel the 50% loss? Let's further assume that the 5GHz is actually giving me max throughput (halved), wouldn't that still outperform the 2.4's even at max speed?

My problem is range. I actually have a PS3 behind (b) and if I connect that directly, wirelessly, to (a) the throughput stinks. In fact, I fare better connecting it wired to a Linksys G running DD-WRT as a client bridge down to my D-Link DIR-655. I am going to replace the D-Link (because the latest firmware which I can't downgrade was the final straw - falls over weekly and won't remember the wireless password on restart) and the Linksys (simply because I want better throughput to the PS3 than I can get from the Linksys).

Thanks.

 

[thiggins]

MacBook & NAS <> WNDR3700(a) <> wireless <> WNDR3700(b) <> Apple TV & Xbox360

Let's say the NAS and the Xbox360 are wired, the macbook and the apple tv are wireless. WNDR3700(a) is connected to the internet.

In this setup, let's say the WNDR3700 is using WDS on BOTH radios, are the Xbox360 and the MacBook also experiencing 50% throughput loss or is just the AppleTV feeling it?

Each time a radio receives and retransmits, you get a 50+% throughput loss. Wired devices connected to each end of a WDS bridge do not experience a throughput loss because the radios are not receiving and retransmitting to move the traffic.

What happens if I WDS only the 5GHz between the two, and use the 2.4GHz to connect the ATV and MBP - do they now still feel the 50% loss?

See above reply. Each radio is independent.

Let's further assume that the 5GHz is actually giving me max throughput (halved), wouldn't that still outperform the 2.4's even at max speed?

It could, although it might be close. Max 11g speed is in the low 20 Mbps range. Typical max 11n for 20 MHz bandwidth is ~60 Mbps and maybe 80 Mbps for 40 MHz channel bandwidth.

 

[iKick]

Actually, I would not recommend using repeating/bridging, since you automatically suffer a 50% throughput hit. If the WNDR3700 included a wireless client mode, then I'd say yes, buy two.

You might consider the NETGEAR WNHDE111 if you can live with 5 GHz only. Other possible client mode bridges are D-Link DAP-1522, Cisco/Linksys WET610N, and Cisco/Linksys WGA600N. I have not tested any of these with the WNDR3700.

Why bridging(not repeating) would cause 50% throughput overhead?

I don't think client mode good since the radio act as WAN, therefore the device would be like a router.

 

[Fameseeker]

Thank you for the information so far, this is a good thread.

Another question for the experts here: Can I use 2 NETGEAR WNHDE111's, both in Bridge mode?

Like so:

What about a potential 3rd bridge for future PC #4?

I already own the WNDR3700, and it's sufficient for all my wireless AP needs throughout the house, so I just need multiple bridges at select locations to hook up wired-only devices.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: I suppose an easier solution for PC #3 and #4 would be a USB wireless adapter, or a PCI card, but I'm still interested in the answer about multiple bridges.

 

[thiggins]

You can use either USB adapters or, multiple bridges. In bridge mode, think of the WNHDE111 as a wireless client with an Ethernet connection to a client.

 

[longstang]

So I know the OP specifically requested information about a wireless AP/Bridge, but I was curious in which situations would you recommend a powerline adapter vs wireless bridge.

 

[thiggins]

Unless you're dealing with AFCI breakers, 200Mbps (HomePlug AV) powerline will usually provide higher and more stable throughput then wireless if you are going any distance.

Current N products generally don't provide stable enough throughput for trouble-free HD video streaming.

 

[stateless]

This is a great thread that may have solved a big issue for me... if I can confirm the setup below will work...


ADSL modem <ethernet> WNDR3700 <ethernet> desktop PC and NAS <wireless bridge> WNR3500 <ethernet> HTPC, XBox

We have two MacBooks and two iPhones that we can just connect to the 3700 - its a small apartment.

If I don't need the 3500 to extend the network, can I just add it as an extra AP and still give ethernet devices attached to it access to files on the desktop and internet through the modem?

Thanks!

 

[thiggins]

If I don't need the 3500 to extend the network, can I just add it as an extra AP and still give ethernet devices attached to it access to files on the desktop and internet through the modem?

What do you need an extra AP for? What problem are you trying to solve?

 

[Leikinen]

now this thread really is interesting
i actually just wanted to buy a second wndr3700 to solve my issues

my current setup :
(internet+htpc)<-wired->wndr3700<-2.4Ghz->workstation/fileserver

the problem:
an htpc has limited space inside the case in is supposed to be REALLY quiet, currently i have 4 hhds installed, which is too loud an space is running out, so i wanted to put the hdds into the workstation an stream the files (also some bd.iso's) over the wireless lan. unfortunately the range of the wndr3700 is not good enough (my flat really isn't big, but has two stories and wireless reception is low at my desk) but at a different location on the second floor the reception is good enough to stream bds (i've tested it by moving the workstation) so i thought i could do the following setup with two wndr3700s

internet+htpc<-wired->wndr3700<-5Ghz->wndr3700<-2.4Ghz->workstation

so the second wndr3700 would act as a bridge on 5Ghz but having the 2.4Ghz wlan activated there shouldn't be any loss (so i thought) as two completely different bands are used and the wndr3700 has some what 8 antennas build in as far as i know so it should be able to receive and transmit on both bands simultaneously

but from what i read here this setup will not work (pleas correct me)

a different setup which still should work would be:

internet+htpc<-wired->wndr3700<-5Ghz->bridge(5Ghz)<-wired->bridge(2.4Ghz)<-2.4Ghz->workstation

in my mind this should work, but then i thought this holds:
wndr3700 = bridge(5Ghz)<-wired->bridge(2.4Ghz)
and now i'm confused and hope you are not