New RT-AX86U - Strange Behavior - Questions

[L&LD]

No packet loss at all with AiProtection enabled for any router I have used it on (RT-AC66U_B1 to GT-AX6000).

At this point, I would be testing different Control Channels and see how the network behaves.

 

[seadragon]

I also ended up cracking open the TP Link Archer ax11000 late last night to do some quick testing. I was seeing packet loss on it too and that was with their “Home Protect“ turned off. Apparently that feature also uses Trend Micro. I was very tired last night so I swapped back to my ASUS and will test in more detail later.

However I right away didn’t like a couple of things on the Archer. First, the 5GHz channels are split between the two 5GHz networks. 5GHz-1 only had lower channels (36-48) and 5GHz-2 only had higher channels (149-161). I’ve never owned a tri-band router so maybe this is normal.

It also doesn’t have a bandwidth setting for 20/40/80 like the ASUS does. Instead it has Auto/20/40/80/160.

It‘s also subjectively uglier than the ax-86u sitting on the table. I nick named it the Black Widow. LOL

 

[Volt]

Interesting case indeed. So, looks like either you are having some form of interference or SpeedTest doesn't show correct results over WiFi then. What if you run the Speed Test and PingPlotter from the same client simultaneously? Will PingPlotter report the packet loss? And will it report the packet loss if you run them simultaneously, but on different clients?

 

[degrub]

see if iperf across the wireless lan to a wired pc gives same packet loss. run it both ways.

 

[seadragon]

Interesting case indeed. So, looks like either you are having some form of interference or SpeedTest doesn't show correct results over WiFi then. What if you run the Speed Test and PingPlotter from the same client simultaneously? Will PingPlotter report the packet loss? And will it report the packet loss if you run them simultaneously, but on different clients?

So, this an interesting situation. PingPlotter only runs on my MacBook Pro. But Speedtest only supports the packet loss test on their mobile apps but not the desktop app or website. If I run the Speedtest app on my MacBook Pro, it doesn't test for packet loss. So in the end I have to use 2 different devices for the 2 tests.

Are there any other tools that would test for packet loss similar to Speedtest? A basic Ping test doesn't show any loss. I'm also wondering if it's an issue with Speedtest and their packet loss testing is falsely reporting? Like it sometimes reports as high as 20% loss but in real world use I'm not seeing any issues with connection speed or reliability.

I'm not familiar with the mechanics of how data flows to and from Trend Micro or why this only happens when their service is turned on.

 

[seadragon]

see if iperf across the wireless lan to a wired pc gives same packet loss. run it both ways.

I'll definitely give that another try when I have a moment.

 

[SAL9K]

No packet loss at all with AiProtection enabled for any router I have used it on (RT-AC66U_B1 to GT-AX6000).

At this point, I would be testing different Control Channels and see how the network behaves.

I'd like to try similar testing... how are you measuring packet loss, and across what (LAN-LAN, WAN-LAN, WLAN-WAN, etc)?

 

[L&LD]

I don't specifically test for packet loss. Just what the online tests show (and the router's test, previously to the 387 Beta 2 firmware).

This is backed up by the fact that the network is more responsive when the 'right' Control Channel is used too, for a specific environment.

 

[seadragon]

EDIT: This proved not to be the case as I later got different results. Leaving the original post below for continuity.

Original Post:
Another observation is that this packet loss in Speedtest only occurs at higher speeds. I was in my garage where the signal isn’t as strong and when the download speed is lower, Speedtest reports zero packet loss. This would explain why I didn’t notice this before I upped my ISP plan from 300/20 to 1000/30.

This is in my garage with AiProtection turned on.

Orig

 

[L&LD]

I believe that is just coincidence, not a real data-point.

 

[seadragon]

I believe that is just coincidence, not a real data-point.

You are correct. I got different results later on. I've updated my original post.

 

[Volt]

So, this an interesting situation. PingPlotter only runs on my MacBook Pro. But Speedtest only supports the packet loss test on their mobile apps but not the desktop app or website. If I run the Speedtest app on my MacBook Pro, it doesn't test for packet loss. So in the end I have to use 2 different devices for the 2 tests.

Actually there is no need for SpeedTest to support the packet loss test. On your MacBook, just run the SpeedTest in the browser and at the same time run the PingPlotter. If PingPlotter reports packet loses while the SpeedTest is running, then probably the SpeedTest on mobile devices is correct. However, if no or small packet loss occurs, then you can be pretty sure that SpeedTest results cannot be trusted 100%.

 

[seadragon]

Actually there is no need for SpeedTest to support the packet loss test. On your MacBook, just run the SpeedTest in the browser and at the same time run the PingPlotter. If PingPlotter reports packet loses while the SpeedTest is running, than probably the SpeedTest on mobile devices is correct. However, if no or small packet loss occurs, then you can be pretty sure that SpeedTest results cannot be trusted 100%.

Ah.. I see what you mean now. Okay, so I just did this now. I had PingPlotter running with google.com as the target. Then I ran Speedtest a few times over and changing the target server a couple of times on and PingPlotter didn't show any lost packets.

 

[Volt]

Ah.. I see what you mean now. Okay, so I just did this now. I had PingPlotter running with google.com as the target. Then I ran Speedtest a few times over and changing the target server a couple of times on and PingPlotter didn't show any lost packets.

Great news! I think that your router is OK and you can just ignore the SpeedTest's packet loss results (I think that's why you also had packet losses on TP-Link, this test is just unreliable, regardless of the router model). BTW, did you run the test with AIProtection enabled?

 

[seadragon]

Great news! I think that your router is OK and you can just ignore the SpeedTest's packet loss results (I think that's why you also had packet losses on TP-Link, this test is just unreliable, regardless of the router model). BTW, did you run the test with AIProtection enabled?

Yes, I made sure AiProtection was on. I think you’re right in that the Speedtest app may be just reading things wrong. I’m going to keep AiProtection on as I’d rather have the security protection.

I returned the TP Link today as I knew I wasn’t going to end up keeping it anyway as I really like everything about these ASUS routers. I may put the second one down in my basement using AiMesh.

 

[Volt]

You spent so much time troubleshooting your router that probably the best thing you can do right now is just enjoy your RT-AX86U and improved Internet speeds. If the packet loss really occurs, I think you will notice it in your day-to-day usage. If this happens, let us know, I'm sure forum members will help in any way they can.

 

[seadragon]

Thank you again for all of your help guys. I truly appreciate it. I’m thinking of getting a shirt made that says “There’s more to Wi-Fi than meets the eye.”. LOL. Really have enjoyed the knowledge I have gained here in the last week.

 

[Tech9]

About Wi-Fi channels @seadragon, see this:

My experience with the RT-AC86U

Just wanted to say thanks to @eibgrad for the PoC and the concept code, and for @SomeWhereOverTheRainBow for the heavy testing and implementation... it's fantastic how you overcame this serious flaw using this method. Raising a glass in your honor! And serious thanks to @Oracle for his...

www.snbforums.com

Two different routers in the same Wi-Fi environment quickly tested side by side.

 

[SAL9K]

Just out of curiosity, did you ever monitor the router CPU load while doing your Speedtests (from the WLAN device that reports packet loss), with and without AiProtection enabled?

 

[seadragon]

Just out of curiosity, did you ever monitor the router CPU load while doing your Speedtests (from the WLAN device that reports packet loss), with and without AiProtection enabled?

Interesting question. I did some testing just now and with AiProtection enabled, core 1 jumps from idle to about 56% then drops slowly to about 40% and then back to idle when the test completes. With AiProtection off, the cores just sit almost at idle with core 1 showing about 1%.

I've also noticed now that the Speedtest app sometimes reports zero packet loss on occasional tests with AiProtection on. So, it's not happening with each run now. But with AiProtection off, it never reports any packet loss.