WiFi-router with robust media server for large media libraries?

[Razzmatazz]

Are there any modern (preferably ASUS) consumer-grade WiFi routers with media servers that can reliably, nicely serve large (21k-music-file, 1k-video-file) libraries? Several years ago, ASUS didn't used to be able to serve large media libraries, so I'm wondering if they fixed that problem at some point.

If you want more background, here's why I ask...

I have a 2016-era ASUS RT-N66U v. B1 (600MHz MIPS, 32MB flash, 256MB RAM) WiFi router running Merlin version 380.70 firmware (released April 2018, the latest available).

The built-in swap-file space was inadequate for the built-in (MiniDLNA) media server to store the media-database for my large (21k-song, 1k-video) media library, which is on a 4TB USB-powered HDD attached to my ASUS RT-N66U. (Apparently the swap-space was adequate for small media libraries, but MiniDLNA choked and crashed on large libraries.) So back in 2019, I implemented a solution (kindly posted by Latenitetech) whereby I added an 8GB USB flash drive containing Entware and a larger swap-file partition. The MiniDLNA media server has worked flawlessly ever since. LOVE IT! And I love not having to waste money or electricity by running a separate NAS box for media-serving (and SMB-serving).

I'm thinking about upgrading my WiFi router, and I'm wondering...

1. Does the inadequate-swap-file-space problem still exists on modern ASUS WiFi routers?
2. Do other brands of modern consumer-grade WiFi routers have media-servers that can reliably handle large media libraries? (Do they all use MiniDLNA?)
3. Did Asus or Merlin update the media server (presumably still MiniDLNA) in the last 5 years?

I'd like to stay with Asus if possible (maybe an RT-AX68U), but I'm open to other brands if anybody has some recommendations.

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[bbunge]

Are there any modern (preferably ASUS) consumer-grade WiFi routers with media servers that can reliably, nicely serve large (21k-music-file, 1k-video-file) libraries? Several years ago, ASUS didn't used to be able to serve large media libraries, so I'm wondering if they fixed that problem at some point.

If you want more background, here's why I ask...

I have a 2016-era ASUS RT-N66U v. B1 (600MHz MIPS, 32MB flash, 256MB RAM) WiFi router running Merlin version 380.70 firmware (released April 2018, the latest available).

The built-in swap-file space was inadequate for the built-in (MiniDLNA) media server to store the media-database for my large (21k-song, 1k-video) media library, which is on a 4TB USB-powered HDD attached to my ASUS RT-N66U. (Apparently the swap-space was adequate for small media libraries, but MiniDLNA choked and crashed on large libraries.) So back in 2019, I implemented a solution (kindly posted by Latenitetech) whereby I added an 8GB USB flash drive containing Entware and a larger swap-file partition. The MiniDLNA media server has worked flawlessly ever since. LOVE IT! And I love not having to waste money or electricity by running a separate NAS box for media-serving (and SMB-serving).

I'm thinking about upgrading my WiFi router, and I'm wondering...

1. Does the inadequate-swap-file-space problem still exists on modern ASUS WiFi routers?
2. Do other brands of modern consumer-grade WiFi routers have media-servers that can reliably handle large media libraries? (Do they all use MiniDLNA?)
3. Did Asus or Merlin update the media server (presumably still MiniDLNA) in the last 5 years?

I'd like to stay with Asus if possible (maybe an RT-AX68U), but I'm open to other brands if anybody has some recommendations.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Build your own from an old PC: https://www.ipfire.org/

Or get a real NAS.

 

[ColinTaylor]

@Razzmatazz I think you are slightly confused. Asus routers do not have any swap space as standard. If you run out of memory (i.e. RAM) you can increase the size of virtual memory by using custom scripts and creating a swap file on an attached USB drive.

 

[Razzmatazz]

Build your own from an old PC: https://www.ipfire.org/

Or get a real NAS.

As I wrote above... "The MiniDLNA media server has worked flawlessly ever since. LOVE IT! And I love not having to waste money or electricity by running a separate NAS box for media-serving (and SMB-serving)."

 

[ColinTaylor]

• Does the inadequate-swap-file-space memory problem still exists on modern ASUS WiFi routers?

For your purposes, yes. Your N66U has 256MB RAM whereas the RT-AX68U has 512MB. But the extra firmware features of the newer models also consume some of that additional memory. You could look at different models like the RT-AX86U which have 1GB of RAM, but you might still need a swap file.

• Did Asus or Merlin update the media server (presumably still MiniDLNA) in the last 5 years?

There was only a minor update 6 years ago from version 1.2.0 to 1.2.1 which is a long way behind the current release of 1.3.3.

 

[tgl]

The bottom line here is that for Asus, or any other consumer router, having a media server is a checkbox they feel they must tick, not a feature they are going to put any money (either hardware, or software maintenance effort) behind. Maybe your needs are low enough that you can get away with the bottom-end capabilities you're going to get from a router; but if you're finding they're not, you'll be a lot happier with a proper NAS that has that sort of thing as its main goal.

Personally, I'm wondering how long till that USB stick dies.

 

[Razzmatazz]

The bottom line here is that for Asus, or any other consumer router, having a media server is a checkbox they feel they must tick, not a feature they are going to put any money (either hardware, or software maintenance effort) behind.

Yep. I suspected that. (They probably also don't want to do the tech-support.) It's unfortunate because I've been VERY happy with the bare-bones media/SMB server functionality on my ancient RT-N66U (ever since I added storage space for MiniDLNA 4 years ago). I just want to stream my music, movies, & family-videos-- primarily to my networked Yamaha MusicCast receivers (via the MusicCast app) and to my TVs/Firesticks (via the Kodi app). And I want to be able to backup my PCs and share directories with my family via SMB. It works great. I'd guess that there are a lot of people who would love to have that bare-bones functionality, but don't know that it's available to them on their routers (and don't have the tech savvy to implement it anyway). And I guess that many, if not most, consumer-grade-home-NAS owners use their NASes for nothing more. I've had a few NAS owners come to my house, see the functionality, and regret that they wasted money & electricity on a NAS. (I live in Silicon Valley with a lot of techie friends.)

I wonder if Synology puts more effort into server functionality on their WiFi routers, since NAS products are a key business for them.

Personally, I'm wondering how long till that USB stick dies.

Me too! I should probably clone it. Also wondering how much longer my ~2017 RT-N66U will keep working.

 

[Razzmatazz]

For your purposes, yes. Your N66U has 256MB RAM whereas the RT-AX68U has 512MB. But the extra firmware features of the newer models also consume some of that additional memory. You could look at different models like the RT-AX86U which have 1GB of RAM, but you might still need a swap file.


There was only a minor update 6 years ago from version 1.2.0 to 1.2.1 which is a long way behind the current release of 1.3.3.

Good info on both posts. Thanks! I might have to grab a (1GB RAM) RT-AX86U from Best Buy and see if it can reliably serve my media library (without any modifications other than a Merlin install).

 

[ColinTaylor]

Me too! I should probably clone it.

If you're only using the USB stick for a swap file there's no need to clone it because you'd just create a new one on the replacement drive. There's also no need to install Entware if all you want is a swap file. The router's built-in amtm command has an option to create the swap file for you on a USB drive.

N.B. A USB flash drive is the worst possible type of storage to put a swap file on (because it's so slow), which probably goes to show how little swap space is actually currently being used. Ideally a swap file should be placed on your fastest available storage device, i.e. an SSD or HDD. If you can get away without needing a swap file then all the better.

 

[coxhaus]

Are you talking about Terabytes of data? I don't think 2.4Ghz will be fast enough.

 

[Razzmatazz]

Are you talking about Terabytes of data? I don't think 2.4Ghz will be fast enough.

I'm not sure what you mean. 2.4GHz WiFi is easily fast enough to stream HD video I have a 4TB USB-powered HDD attached to my RT-N66U router, with the router's media-server and SMB server turned on. My WiFi clients (like Firestick 4Ks) can easily stream 1080P video from the router's HDD with no glitching. They can even do so while other clients are streaming HD-video from Netflix, etc.

 

[tgl]

I wonder if Synology puts more effort into server functionality on their WiFi routers, since NAS products are a key business for them.

Can't say for sure, but I'd bet against it. Not only do they have the same cost considerations as every other router maker, but they have an incentive to steer you towards buying one of their NASes along with the router.

 

[Razzmatazz]

If you're only using the USB stick for a swap file there's no need to clone it because you'd just create a new one on the replacement drive. There's also no need to install Entware if all you want is a swap file. The router's built-in amtm command has an option to create the swap file for you on a USB drive.

This is at the fringe of my technical grasp. Back in 2019, I just followed Latenitetech's How-To guide, in which he recommended installing and using Entware to create a swap file. But now that I re-read the guide, Entware does seem optional. Not sure why Latenitetech didn't use the "amtm" command to create the swap file.

If I look at the USB-flash drive directory over the network from my PC, I see that it has an "entware" directory. And inside that, it has a ".minidlna" directory which has a "Date modifed" of a few days ago (probably when I rebooted the router and it rebuilt the media database). There are 3 other directories in the "entware" direcory ("app", "entware", "lost+found") and a "jffs_scripts_backup_2019-11-07_11-59.tgz" file, none of which have a "Date modified" newer than 2019. Inside the ".minidlna" directory, there are 2 recently modified files; a 76kB database file "files.db", and recently modified 55KB text-based log file, "minidlna.log" (which seems to log every database rebuild since 2019).

I would guess that "files.db" is the database for my media collection, but I'm shocked that it's so small. Not sure how a 76kB file could cause the router to run out of RAM. Not sure if this is the swap file.

Inside the "entware/entware" folder, there is a 2GB file called "swap", but Windows shows the "Date modified" as 2019, so I'm guessing that isn't being used.

I'm guessing that Entware is installed in the router's flash and therefore it doesn't need the files inside the "entware" directory, unless I were to install some other Entware modules.

N.B. A USB flash drive is the worst possible type of storage to put a swap file on (because it's so slow), which probably goes to show how little swap space is actually currently being used. Ideally a swap file should be placed on your fastest available storage device, i.e. an SSD or HDD. If you can get away without needing a swap file then all the better.

In Latenitetech's How To guide, he wrote:
"It's strongly recommended to install entware and swapfile on a flash drive rather than a traditional spinning hard drive, especially if your hard drive spins down on inactivity. The swap file must react instantly and things won't work right if it has to wait for the hard drive to spin up."
So I used a USB flash-drive. MiniDLNA crashed constantly before I implemented Latenitetech's solution in 2019, but it has been perfect ever since.

 

[coxhaus]

1080P is not 4K video.

Moving large amounts of data on 2.4 GHz is going to be very painful.

 

[tgl]

N.B. A USB flash drive is the worst possible type of storage to put a swap file on (because it's so slow),

Yeah, and because it will fail after not all that many write cycles.

which probably goes to show how little swap space is actually currently being used.

Indeed, I have to think that the actual swap usage rate is tiny, because otherwise that drive would have gone belly-up awhile ago.

 

[ColinTaylor]

This is at the fringe of my technical grasp. Back in 2019, I just followed Latenitetech's How-To guide, in which he recommended installing and using Entware to create a swap file. But now that I re-read the guide, Entware does seem optional. Not sure why Latenitetech didn't use the "amtm" command to create the swap file.

A lot has changed in the firmware since 2019. Those instructions probably made sense at the time. amtm didn't exist back then.

In Latenitetech's How To guide, he wrote:
"It's strongly recommended to install entware and swapfile on a flash drive rather than a traditional spinning hard drive, especially if your hard drive spins down on inactivity. The swap file must react instantly and things won't work right if it has to wait for the hard drive to spin up."

I read that but don't necessarily agree with it. I can see the reasoning behind it if you are using the flash drive for other things (i.e. other Entware packages) and not just a swap file.

 

[Razzmatazz]

1080P is not 4K video.

Moving large amounts of data on 2.4 GHz is going to be very painful.

I don't download movies to my "server" in 4K, but my Firestick 4Ks can easily stream 4K movies via 2.4GHz WiFi. I don't know what the compression/bitrate is for Netflix' "4K" movies. But typical 4K bitrates should be within the capability of 2.4GHz WiFi.

FYI: I watch downloaded movies on TVs at living-room & bedroom distances (e.g. 70" living room TV @ 10-15 feet & 55" bedrooom TV @ 8'). At such screen-sizes and distances (which covers the vast majority of non-PC use-cases), the human eye can't discern the quality-difference between 4K & 1080P video. 4K TVs were mostly developed as a marketing gimmick to convince people to upgrade from 1080P TVs. Next up... 8K TVs.

 

[tgl]

I would guess that "files.db" is the database for my media collection, but I'm shocked that it's so small. Not sure how a 76kB file could cause the router to run out of RAM. Not sure if this is the swap file.

For certain it is not.

Inside the "entware/entware" folder, there is a 2GB file called "swap", but Windows shows the "Date modified" as 2019, so I'm guessing that isn't being used.

Probably not that either. Typical practice is for swap to be on a separate "partition", which isn't a filesystem so you can't see it with ls. Normally you'd use swapon or swapinfo to see what swap target is being used, but Asus seems to use a dumbed-down swapon command that has no status functionality. Try "cat /proc/swaps" instead.

 

[Razzmatazz]

Yeah, and because it will fail after not all that many write cycles.



Indeed, I have to think that the actual swap usage rate is tiny, because otherwise that drive would have gone belly-up awhile ago.

In looking at the text of the minidlna.log file, it seems that the database file only get modified (maybe rewritten?) on average about once per month-- probably when I've rebooted the router. It is not getting modified whenever I add new songs. (I just performed that experiment. I added a song to the router's HDD's Music folder. VLC can instantly see the song in the network media library. But the flash drive's "files.db" "Date modified" does not change (from a few days ago).

 

[sfx2000]

Are there any modern (preferably ASUS) consumer-grade WiFi routers with media servers that can reliably, nicely serve large (21k-music-file, 1k-video-file) libraries? Several years ago, ASUS didn't used to be able to serve large media libraries, so I'm wondering if they fixed that problem at some point.

Buy a NAS - seriously...

A single bay NAS will do a much better job than any router... they're optimized for this...