WNDR3700 vs. linksys wrt610/e3000- varied review results?

[wp746911]

so on tomshardware they 'declare' the wrt610 the winner in their most recent router review (april 2010)- it appears to really beat most other routers pretty handily (including the wndr3700) in 2.4/5ghz and at different ranges. Before this review I was really preparing to get the 3700 since in the smallnetbuilder review it seems to at least equal the 610, and even has better speed at distant range- why the review discrepancy? Is the 610 review at smallnetbuilder using an older version? Which review do I believe?

 

[tipstir]

so on tomshardware they 'declare' the wrt610 the winner in their most recent router review (april 2010)- it appears to really beat most other routers pretty handily (including the wndr3700) in 2.4/5ghz and at different ranges. Before this review I was really preparing to get the 3700 since in the smallnetbuilder review it seems to at least equal the 610, and even has better speed at distant range- why the review discrepancy? Is the 610 review at smallnetbuilder using an older version? Which review do I believe?

Nope there is a user site were all users rank these router plus editors rank them as they are tested out of 100%. Still SNB is the only one that goes deep into the internals the others don't.

This one with DD-WRT from Cisco Linksys WRT310N comes in at 100%, Linksys E3000 High-Performance Wireless-N comes in at 72% prior WRT610n only manages 57% weakness in wireless performance. 67% for Cisco Linksys WRT160N. Belkin N+ 77% and Netgear WNDR3700 87%. There is also info tags showing why they're rated as such. But very interesting to see which one are doing better. There are more than 50 routers on that site some I never heard of before. Even wired gig routers are listed. Those with USB for storage suffer with the percentage marks as the USB is lousy.

 

[thiggins]

Wireless testing results are highly dependent on the methods used, but, more importantly, on the environment that they are tested in. Since test environments differ from reviewer to reviewer, results can vary.

I don't think you can take any one site, including SmallNetBuilder as gospel when it comes to wireless product selection. It's just one more data point in a decision process that's not straightforward.

We ran our tests on the original version (V1) WRT610N. That could account for some of the difference in results. But the caveats above still apply.

 

[wp746911]

so what is that review site? I'm just suprised that toms hardware gave the wndr3700 such a poor review when compared to the wrt610
(http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/802.11n-wireless-router-access-point,2605.html)

 

[wp746911]

I do trust smallnetbuilder's reviews more- you guys go very in depth in your review and really try to be as scientific as possible- but I also like toms hardware reviews in general so I was just suprised at the discrepancy

 

[j_nolesfan]

I'm a n00b here so forgive me if I step on toes.

I'm in the same boat as far as reviews. I hope you don't view this as hijacking your thread but I'm really needing some help so I can pull the trigger and I think my problem relates to yours.

I love the ASUS RT-N13U but another review site (not Tom's) gave it a really bad review as well. I don't like the fact that it's not dual band but it has a print server and it's half to one third of the price of the other competitors. I feel burned by Linksys because I bought the WRT120N router and found out later that they were stretching the limits of truth in advertising to even give it an N designation. Thanks to SNB for pointing that out. It's a shame I bought the router on impulse and didn't check here first. Linksys offered to RMA my router for a refurb but if my current router isn't malfunctioning (yeah, it resets, yeah the range and throughput are terrible), why spend my money to ship my turd to them in exchange for a rebuilt turd from them? I had asked if they could send me a higher model in the exchange, even if I paid the difference but there was absolutely no wiggle room there.

I want to use the router to possibly stream HD content, plus support two wired PC's and one wired Xbox, as well as two wireless N laptops. I was hoping for USB storage AND USB wireless print server capabilities. I was considering the 3700 and the 610 routers for their high marks here and elsewhere but they are at the top of my price range, they only offer USB storage, and Linksys has left a bad taste in my mouth regardless of the performance of their other products. So for me, it's down to the ASUS and the Netgear. The Netgear touts its strong signal over distance but the ASUS is neck and neck with it at the longer ranges on the downlink side which is most important in my mind. Heck, for the $60 or so price, I could probably buy two ASUS routers and set one up as a repeater on the opposite side of my house and blow the other options away.

Maybe I feel like the ASUS is either too cheap or it's cheap for a reason? I've heard that their documentation and tech support isn't all that great but their product support (new firmware, etc.) seems pretty good. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Jeff

 

[tipstir]

Wireless testing results are highly dependent on the methods used, but, more importantly, on the environment that they are tested in. Since test environments differ from reviewer to reviewer, results can vary.

I don't think you can take any one site, including SmallNetBuilder as gospel when it comes to wireless product selection. It's just one more data point in a decision process that's not straightforward.

We ran our tests on the original version (V1) WRT610N. That could account for some of the difference in results. But the caveats above still apply.

It's good info you can only do so much here. Like you said prior under EnGenius you don't do continuous testing (stress I guess you mean plus adding firmware updates) The other site just goes by results from others around the net. Seems more geared for Fon Fonera 2.0n which is 10/100 router. Then the rest follows.

This is how that site rates

Cisco Linksys WRT610n. 57%

Pros
gigabit wired ports
wireless N offers extended range and a huge speed boost
attractive look, good for exposed routers - no external antennas

Cons
expensive
most consumers don't require the enhanced speed
Firmware MUST be upgraded to latest available to avoid connection problems

Cisco Linksys E3000 High-Performance Wireless-N 72%

Pros
true dual-band for the best performance, capable of broadcasting to older 802.11G 2.4GHz devices simultaneously without slowing down true 802.11N devices
NAS functionality
wall mountable

Cons
no support for non-network-enabled (USB only) printers
poor media server
not compatible with custom Linux based firmwares

Netgear WNDR3700 87%

Pros
Gigabit and true dual band wireless-n for fast transfers
dual network support - create a second wireless network that is locked down for guests, or one dedicated for streaming media only
slick aesthetic

Cons
does not support plugging in a printer
storage performance is poor
high price for speed not capable or required by the majority of consumers

But Tim they don't go as far as you in actual testing the wireless, up and down, LAN to WAN and the WAN to LAN plus you show the internals and keep up the charts. THW site pretty much like this site above except some pro and cons. Every site going to show which router can do what?

They even got:

DD-WRT 71%

Pros
Can give $60 routers features of $600 routers
Very large database of compatible hardware
Huge community, lots of support information
Many useful features for network administrators

Cons
Can be tricky to install--not for all users or the faint-of-heart
Has the potential to brick a router

 

[tipstir]

I'm a n00b here so forgive me if I step on toes.

I'm in the same boat as far as reviews. I hope you don't view this as hijacking your thread but I'm really needing some help so I can pull the trigger and I think my problem relates to yours....<snip>

Jeff why settle for these brands you could go move up a notch for 600mW or 1000mW wireless routers. ASUS Eee PC D200 NAS / Router It has 2GB of RAM, a 1-4TB HDD and it has 802.11n wireless internet. A slot loading DVD burner can be used too which allows you to create backups of your backup, or to add new media quickly to the device. With it having a small touchscreen built in the front it requires no external monitor, keyboard, mouse etc… and can work completely independently.

$600.

Asus Eee D200 90%

Pros
massive NAS built into the router
wireless N
fully integrated PC will allow for powerful use in an enthusiast's hands
3.5" touchscreen
4 USB ports for use with peripherals or expansion of capacity

Cons
quite large for what it is

This sounds like a network PC that acts like a router. Tims review of the EnGenius is what sold me to buy it! I did buy two of them. I hope that wasn't a mistake on my part. I don't blame anyone. I just wish it works like I would like it to work. I've contacted EnGenius yesterday about my issues.

 

[j_nolesfan]

@Tipster,

That's a pretty stout machine, the ASUS NAS router. Unfortunately, it would look funny sitting in the dainty little spot that my current router is in, not to mention it's about $500 beyond my price range. I do think the two router setup I mentioned has merit though (one as a wired repeater). I think it would provide a higher throughput over a larger coverage area than most any of the routers that you could get for the same price (~$120).

Obviously, it would be nice if someone could say "Jeff, you would be happy with this router within your budget" but it's such a subjective thing. So taking a step back, I'm really just trying to decide between the Netgear and the ASUS RT-13U. I do like the gigabit capability of the 16U but I don't have any gigabit adapters so that might be a moot point. By the time I actually have enough gigabit adapters in my house to take advantage, gigabit wireless will probably be feasible and reasonably priced.

I hope to pull the trigger today.

Jeff

 

[thiggins]

Jeff,

The old saying about having to kiss a lot of frogs to find a prince applies in spades to finding a wireless router that will make you happy. This is especially true if your application is HD streaming. 11n routers aren't built for steady throughput, but for peak speed. And moderately high, steady throughput is what you need for flawless HD streaming, unless your player has a really big buffer (an approach that unfortunately, most manufacturers don't take).

You will find bad comments / reviews about every router on the market. That's human nature at play. You need to take all inputs into account, make your best guess and be prepared to return the product (and take a possible restock fee hit) if your choice doesn't work out for you.

USB printer and storage sharing features on routers are basic and, for storage, not very speedy. Multi function printers aren't fully supported. So don't be surprised if you end up not using those features.

There is no consumer networking vendor that provides stellar service. After all, how good can free support for that many people be? So I don't even consider support a decision factor. I'd put more value on active communities and good forum support.

ASUS does not have networking as a primary focus. Their products may be fast, but don't expect a lot of help if you have problems.

 

[j_nolesfan]

Tim,

Thanks for your candor. Wow, I just checked out the ASUSTek forums and there are a few horror stories about the 13U router. Some people saying they were gonna go "office space" on it and beat it to bits! That's about how I feel with my WRT120N. I'm sure there are the same stories for most popular brands. I guess I need to keep looking at forums from end users to see what their experiences are and use it to temper the data that I've gleaned from the various reviews and if I'm lucky, I'll pick a winner. I get "paralysis through analysis" and can't pull the trigger because I'm so tired of being snake bitten by what seemed to be a solid product.

Regards,
Jeff

 

[thiggins]

Negative reviews will always outnumber positive ones. Which would you be more likely to post? It's just human nature. We find it easier to complain than to compliment.

Pay attention to the contest of user reviews and see exactly what is being complained about. User interfaces are very personal. What one person is ok with, another will hate. In the end, once you get the product set up, you probably won't futz with it much. But if the GUI doesn't work or doesn't let you do what you need to do, then that's a different story.

You can't drive yourself crazy with this stuff. After all, consider how much you're spending vs. the effort you're putting into this decision!

 

[tipstir]

ASUS just known for their MOBO (motherboards) their netbooks are okay. I won't buy they're wireless router. MSI has a few wireless network gear another MOBO company. They do like to dabble into other markets. Everyone here should buy what they think might do the trick. Tim SNB has help us all to figure out what to get. Other review sites just like to talk the talk. I buy what I think might do the trick. I know I've ran into some false promises in network equipment. 802.11b is where I had started since then 802.11g and 802.11n a good leap over each other. I like what 802.11n offers, sure there are still some bumps and grind along the way.

Wireless routers are underpowered in mW, I am not saying they should be 600mW to 1000mW (1 watt) but there is noise to deal with two in the wireless range.

 

[j_nolesfan]

Agreed all around. The reviews that scare me are the ones that say I tried this, this, and that and I still couldn't get any reliable service or performance. I'll probably stay with a safer bet than the ASUS. I suppose the Netgear or maybe even the EnG could be options if I'm willing to forgo any USB connectivity.

Jeff

 

[tipstir]

Agreed all around. The reviews that scare me are the ones that say I tried this, this, and that and I still couldn't get any reliable service or performance. I'll probably stay with a safer bet than the ASUS. I suppose the Netgear or maybe even the EnG could be options if I'm willing to forgo any USB connectivity.

Jeff

Jeff,

USB on the router deal never kind of work out so well even with the DIR-655 I had tried everything with that one see below:

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL1099/4465559/21344768/353940799.jpg

I had everything from SD, SDHC, MicroSDHC, anything that was USB that could connect via the one user one action method that DLINK introduce (which was terrible) Belkin N+ USB Storage it works good on the network without any software mangement. \\router IP and bang your into your WD Passport drive an such but the through-put is too slow. Then there is a bug that causes the USB device to take a hike!

Just keep these routers power enough to manage any type of home or small business network needs. Without over heating, dropping connections, lockups an etc.

 

[j_nolesfan]

Jeff,

Belkin N+ USB Storage it works good on the network without any software mangement. \\router IP and bang your into your WD Passport drive an such but the through-put is too slow. Then there is a bug that causes the USB device to take a hike!

Just keep these routers power enough to manage any type of home or small business network needs. Without over heating, dropping connections, lockups an etc.

Tipster,

So you like the N+ pretty well? I was thinking about one of the Belkin routers. I remember reading a review that said that the Play Max was a lot of money for a couple of minor features and that the next model below the Max was a decent buy.

So, I guess I'm down to Netgear 3700 or a Belkin because I can buy them locally and return them if I'm disappointed. If I do try either or both of them and end up dissatisfied, I'll probably end up going with one of the smaller specialty networking brands like EnGenius or Buffalo. I'll post back as things progress in hopes that I might help some poor schmuck like myself who's trying to find the perfect router.

Thanks again,
Jeff

 

[tipstir]

Tipster,

So you like the N+ pretty well? I was thinking about one of the Belkin routers. I remember reading a review that said that the Play Max was a lot of money for a couple of minor features and that the next model below the Max was a decent buy.

So, I guess I'm down to Netgear 3700 or a Belkin because I can buy them locally and return them if I'm disappointed. If I do try either or both of them and end up dissatisfied, I'll probably end up going with one of the smaller specialty networking brands like EnGenius or Buffalo. I'll post back as things progress in hopes that I might help some poor schmuck like myself who's trying to find the perfect router.

Thanks again,
Jeff

Hey Jeff,

Tim's review of the Belkin Play Max has put me in another direction. I really like the Belkin N+ and looking at Tim's review I had decided to give it a try. Ended up getting another last year in 2009. First one was in 2008. V1 hardware is the best one. Just had my cousin drive down here and he's going to get one also. The only thing is he wanted me to give him one of mine. Nope! Not going out here! EnGenius (Senao) don't be fooled they're really into network gear beyond the home stuff. I've done a lot of research to find that out. I going to buy the ESR-9855G, but I'll hold off until Tim can do a review on it. In the mean time I'll ask EnGenius contact how much memory is going to be in it and etc.

Buffalo products were good prior to the court issue in USA, I don't know after that how the products are. I have 2x HP G54 but they're showing their age, the AP is the best feature, uploads are stronger than downloads if you use it as a router. Basic nothing fancy. I think the best so far was Belkin N+ now EnGenius finally working correctly for me I just need 100mW ESR-9855G instead of 50mW in ESR-9850. Plus the new one has Stream Engine for wireless streaming an etc.

Yes you can buy anything local and return them. You can do the same with Amazon and HSN ! They both sells Belkin N+ they'll even give you the UPS free shipping return label with no questions ask. HSN no tax if you live in a state that doesn't accept it for online purchases. QVC tax, tax, tax.

 

[j_nolesfan]

Ok, I went against the grain here. I placed the order for the ASUS RT-N13U. I ordered it from Amazon because I know I can probably return it if I don't like it. The thing just speaks to me. It caught my eye with its performance on Tim's charts and others gave it favorable reviews too. I know ASUS isn't primarily a networking company and their support techs are probably a waste of time but if the router performs as it should for me, it won't matter. If it doesn't, it's going back. I won't waste any time. The wife will be out of town as of the delivery date and I'll be putting it through its paces right away. I saw where one guy used a USB hub and connected an external HDD and a printer and got them both working. Of course, the HDD was only FTP. I'd probably use that for backups mostly but the printing is the main thing. We all use the printer in my house and they usually have to unplug it from my PC (yeah, could share via PC but don't want mine to have to stay powered on) and plug it into their laptops. Now, I just need to decide what to sell my Linksys WRT120N for. It sells for $50 retail right now. It should sell for say $25 on Craigslist?

I'll be sure and post back when I have a chance to test the router. With the rebate, it will only be costing me about $40 after shipping. So if it sucks, it won't be a bitter pill even if I keep it. I'm still intrigued by the idea of setting up a repeater on the other side of the house.

Cheers,
Jeff

 

[tipstir]

Ok, I went against the grain here. I placed the order for the ASUS RT-N13U. I ordered it from Amazon because I know I can probably return it if I don't like it. The thing just speaks to me. It caught my eye with its performance on Tim's charts and others gave it favorable reviews too. I know ASUS isn't primarily a networking company and their support techs are probably a waste of time but if the router performs as it should for me, it won't matter. If it doesn't, it's going back. I won't waste any time. The wife will be out of town as of the delivery date and I'll be putting it through its paces right away. I saw where one guy used a USB hub and connected an external HDD and a printer and got them both working. Of course, the HDD was only FTP. I'd probably use that for backups mostly but the printing is the main thing. We all use the printer in my house and they usually have to unplug it from my PC (yeah, could share via PC but don't want mine to have to stay powered on) and plug it into their laptops. Now, I just need to decide what to sell my Linksys WRT120N for. It sells for $50 retail right now. It should sell for say $25 on Craigslist?

I'll be sure and post back when I have a chance to test the router. With the rebate, it will only be costing me about $40 after shipping. So if it sucks, it won't be a bitter pill even if I keep it. I'm still intrigued by the idea of setting up a repeater on the other side of the house.

Cheers,
Jeff

Did you read the reviews on Newegg on it. Hope you like it? I thought I was bad going around the wife back when she's not around buy all sorts gizmo's. Good to know I am not the only one!

 

[j_nolesfan]

Oh, my comment on "against the grain" was more for the advice that I got from you and Tim. My wife's in the boat with me on my purchase but she wasn't happy with the results of the Linksys purchase. Nobody was. I haven't worked on the printer issue any further than getting more than one page with segments of on single page printed on each one. The result seems promising though. I was at least able to affect the issue which means I probably just need to try a few more options.

Jeff