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Adaptive QOS, have I set it wrong or am I expecting too much of it?

Discussion in 'ASUS AC Routers & Adapters' started by Stuey3D, Jul 13, 2018 at 1:39 PM.

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  1. Stuey3D

    Stuey3D Occasional Visitor

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    Hi all I have an RT-AC68U router which has the latest 3.0.0.4.384_21140 firmware on it, my internet connection connects at around 56Mb down with around 10-11Mb upload.

    I have been using the Adaptive QOS but it doesn't seem to do the job I am expecting, my expectations are either too high or I have set it wrong.

    My scenario is as follows:

    I have Adaptive QOS set to Game and I have manually restricted the speeds to 50Mb down & 8Mb up to reduce bufferbloat.

    My Nintendo Switch is set to the highest priority with my laptop sitting just behind at High and the rest of my devices set to medium however I am having issues with the Switch maintaining connection when the Laptop has Steam open and downloading something.

    When the laptop has Steam open and downloading the Adaptive QOS also shows that its using 53Mb down even though QOS is only restricted to 50Mb down, because of this the Switch then has all sorts of connectivity issues in online games.

    From my config I would expect the Switch to be prioritised and the laptop having its speed reduced accordingly, with both topping out at only 50Mb to prevent bufferbloat and connectivity issues.

    Are my expectations too high, or do I not have QOS configured correctly or have I stumbled upon a bug in the system?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
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  3. Stuey3D

    Stuey3D Occasional Visitor

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    I have managed to fix my issue and I shall now explain the steps I carried out.

    I switched to Merlin 384.5 as I remember FQ_Codel on the Adaptive QOS page was far better for BufferBloat (A/A+ grade vs B/C on stock firmware on the DSL reports speed test) this improved things slightly but still had issues.
    I then disabled QOS completely and the Switch worked perfect whilst Steam was downloading on the laptop, however disabling will increase the bufferbloat and cause other issues.
    So what I have done now is turn on Traditional QOS and have the device priorities and speed limits set the same as I did on Adaptive QOS and now everything works perfect (or seems to be for now)

    It appears that Adaptive QOS is trying too hard and getting confused as to what to do with the various data its trying to handle, whereas the Traditional QOS doesn't and therefore results in far better performance.


    TLDR: Switch to Traditional QOS from Adaptive QOS
     
  4. kfp

    kfp Very Senior Member

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    I wouldn’t be surprised if Steam downloads are also categorized as Game traffic and therefore had same priority as your Switch traffic. Have you tried generating traffic in other ways? Bittorrent or just a large HTTP download.
     
  5. Sinner

    Sinner Regular Contributor

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    steam im pretty sure comes thru under gaming and torents in downloads. its impressive really how well it actually works without modification. some game patchers im finding come thru as web still tho. ive managed to get a perfect setup with only 2 custom rules in my freshjr qos setup and disabled most of the stock ones.
     
  6. Stuey3D

    Stuey3D Occasional Visitor

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    I think you might be right with that, hence why changing to traditional QOS worked best for me.

    What I found odd and what was my daughter was able to watch YouTube on her iPad whilst the Steam Download was going with no issues it was only the Switch that was the issue, so I think QOS was messing with the ping times as the Switch for online gaming only uses around 300Kb/s which is next to nothing.
     
  7. kfp

    kfp Very Senior Member

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    YouTube buffers so it has some room to ‘starve’ before becoming laggy. Glad you found a setup that works!
     
  8. Stuey3D

    Stuey3D Occasional Visitor

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    Ok whilst I've fixed the Switch connectivity issues whilst downloading from Steam, switching to Traditional QOS has now caused me another issue.

    With Traditional QOS the Nat Acceleration doesn't work anymore and as such the transfers from the hard drive on the Routers USB port has now plummeted from around 16MB/s to 3MB/s also my MyCloud has had a small reduction from 60MB/s - around 50MB/s but I can live with that.

    I've also noticed when I max out my downloads using the Traditional QOS the routers CPU nearly maxes out which is expected given that its now doing all the work without hardware acceleration.

    Am I at the limit with what I can expect from my 68U and would a more powerful Blue Cave or 86U give me the benefits of QOS without spanking my internal transfer speeds as much, as right now with the 68U I can choose the following scenarios:

    Adaptive QOS - Kills Switch online gaming when downloading from Steam on another machine
    Traditional QOS - High Router CPU usage and slower internal transfers especially to the routers USB port. Fixes the problem with Switch online gaming whilst Steam downloads.
    No QOS - Seems to work with the Switch gaming whilst Steam downloads but this will cause major bufferbloat on my limited connection.

    Also I presume with QOS disabled even though the devices have a priority label still set that is effectively ignored?

    Is there a setting I am missing somewhere that would give me a decent all round solution or am I looking at new hardware?
     
  9. Sinner

    Sinner Regular Contributor

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    Blizzard launcher downloads also fall in the gaming category. Which i guess sorta makes sense. I personally found to easier to just arrange the priorities in a way that made sense for our needs and made 2 custom rules for the actual games so the games, web browsing and netfliz dont get choked out by gaming downloads. In this setup i have gaming at the bottom just above file transfers. Works great
     
  10. Stuey3D

    Stuey3D Occasional Visitor

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    I've just opted to disable QOS for now, seems like the best middle ground in terms of the Switch still working whilst Steam is downloading but with NAT Acceleration enabled allowing for fast transfers to my connected storage devices.
     
  11. kfp

    kfp Very Senior Member

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    Have you looked into @FreshJR’s QoS?
     
  12. Stuey3D

    Stuey3D Occasional Visitor

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    I did have a look into that but to be honest it looked far too complicated for me to understand.

    I'll leave QOS off as to be honest I'm not noticing any noticeable performance drop without it. Bufferbloat is now a C grade on the DSL Reports speed test but in normal usage the connection seems decent enough.

    I was considering weather a newer router would be worth it, if it would allow decent QOS whilst maintaining decent transfer speeds to my network hard drives, but convincing the missus to allow me to spend £180 on new hardware which may or may not fix my issue is going to be hard.
     
    kfp likes this.
  13. kfp

    kfp Very Senior Member

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    Like you said, if there’s no noticeable performance drop then you don’t need to spend more money to replace a working device.
     
  14. lilstone87

    lilstone87 Senior Member

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    Adaptive QoS with Trendmicro's DPI is still to up, and down with its classifying of traffic. Someone in my household just the other day was playing Fortnite, which has been a very popular game for close to a year now. But oddly the other day while they were playing, I had Adaptive QoS enabled, with the latest signature. However while they were in a game, Adaptive QoS was classifying the data as general traffic.

    Which to me is beyond weird, and silly. I'm guessing with Adaptive QoS, and Trendmicro DPI. They don't use any IP lookup info to boost traffic detection? Because I'm very sure the traffic was being passed to a dedicated game server. Still the traffic overall wasn't classified properly, and this is for a game that's the most popular online right now, and has been out for close to a year now.

    Overall I expect Adaptive QoS with DPI to handle this way better, and I can understand certain people wanting to use Traditional QoS. At least the one's who know there traffic well, and can manually prioritize it either by IP, or Ports being used. I'm not saying Adaptive QoS isn't usable, I just know it still lags behind on classifying traffic with DPI properly. So it isn't for everyone.
     
  15. kfp

    kfp Very Senior Member

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    Game servers change IP all the time, CDNs change all the time. Just because a game has been out for a while doesn’t mean much if infrastructure is always changing.

    Which QoS/DPI do you think this lags behind? From which vendor?
     
  16. Sinner

    Sinner Regular Contributor

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    I have to assume trend is far from complete with its dpi engine. It only recognises a few games but does this in an advanced way, much more advanced than just ports. Its actually impressive. Myself for those few instances ive made custom rules for my needs and then everything is perfect.

    Ive put unidentified traffic into voip because we have a lot of unrecognised voip and it needs to be top priority... this would include teamspeak,ventrillo and discord. This also took care of the fps games in the house that are very ping sensitive. next I found WoW and blizzard stuff being put into gaming so I thought i'd put that 2nd priority but that didn't work because the game updates are also in same category and was too high. so I made a custom rule for the wow game only.

    Next we had a lot of Idevices downloading so have custom rule to put those istore downloads/updates into downloads. So now I only have 2 custom rules, removed most of freshs except for the bottom section with the unidentified traffic and httpd stuff so its much cleaner than stock.
    my priorities/%'s are now as follows:

    10 - NETCONTROL
    10 - VOIP - all unidentified traffic which is risky, all unidentified ping sensitive fps games and voice comm apps and wifi calling
    10 - OTHERS - literally just for WoW because it buffers and is not as ping sensitive as other games
    10 - WEB - web browsing so my bros wife doesn't murder someone lol and to make it feel snappy
    30 - VIDEO - Netflix, youtube most online streaming media including internet radio etc
    10 - GAMING - majority of console games for the kids and console downloads
    10 - DOWNLOADS - iTunes and pc downloads and windows updates
    10 - DEFAULT - empty.. nothing goes here

    works flawlessly.

    so in short I removed most of the rules from the script only left http/unidentified traffic ones and added 2 custom rules... done
     
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  17. Sinner

    Sinner Regular Contributor

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    Since ive put the work in I might as well share. Heres my 2 custom rules for iTunes and WoW incase anyone else needs them:

    DOWNLOADS
    ${tc} filter add dev br0 protocol all prio 6 u32 match mark 0x80080016 0xc03fffff flowid ${Others} #WOW Live
    ${tc} filter add dev br0 protocol all prio 6 u32 match mark 0x8004000A 0xc03fffff flowid ${Downloads} #Apple iTunes

    UPLOADS
    ${tc} filter add dev eth0 protocol all prio 6 u32 match mark 0x40080016 0xc03fffff flowid ${Others} #WOW Live
    ${tc} filter add dev eth0 protocol all prio 6 u32 match mark 0x4004000A 0xc03fffff flowid ${Downloads} #Apple iTunes
     
    kfp likes this.
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