Any MoCA experts out there?

[itpromike]

So we bought a new home, but after moving in noticed a bit of an issue. Because of the design/layout of the home running CAT5 is either impossible or expensive so I'm left with having to do MoCA (there's Coax in every room). By default, MoCA speeds (MoCA 1.1) aren't really all that great for the application I"m using it for (1080P content streaming from my home theater) however I got a lead on some MoCA 2.0 devices that I'm purchasing... Now I know that whatever the lowest speed or MoCA version is on a particular channel then all devices on that same channel will default to it and I would need to change the channels on my Actionet router and STB's so that it's not using the same channel as my MoCA 2.0 bridge however I'm wondering if there needs to also be a direct line from the ONT as well or can I split it? So for example my router and all networking stuff is in my office however the devices I need to get networked in are located in my home theater. So I was going to use a Coax splitter from the Coax drop in my office and run a line to the MoCA 2.0 bridge in the office and the other line to the MoCA 1.1 bridge (actionet provided by Verizon) in the office. The 2.0 bridge will service my HTPC in the theater area and the 1.1 bridge will service my STB's around the house. I'm going to configure the 1.1 devices on a different channel than the 2.0 devices. Now in my head this should work however are there any aspects of this I'm missing that might prevent this from working? Thanks in advanced for the guidance!

 

[itpromike]

Hopefully what I'm asking isn't confusing? If it is let me know and I"ll try to explain it better....

 

[stevech]

MoCA 1.1 should yield a net IP layer throughput of 50+ Mbps. That should be OK for 1080p.
Not sure about 1080i which is rare due to lack of content media.

 

[itpromike]

MoCA 1.1 should yield a net IP layer throughput of 50+ Mbps. That should be OK for 1080p.
Not sure about 1080i which is rare due to lack of content media.

Well that depends on the spec of the 1080P signal and also if it's carrying DTS, Dolby, HTX sound etc... also honestly I'd like to use my storage array for more than just movies, like backup and my own personal cloud in the house as well but that would only be viable with good speeds.

I take it that not many around here have really dealt with putting MoCA on different channels before? Can anyone point me to a good guide that explains this or some place I might be able to find this info?

The real heart of the question is, can I go from the wall CoAX drop to a splitter and then out to 2 different MoCA devices with each using a different channel? Or since it's coming from the same wall outlet will it still default to the lowest denominator?

 

[azazel1024]

In this case, it sounds like a trial and error. If you are using different channels I THINK it will work, but I haven't personally tried it.

Depending on the bridges/router, you may be able to set it up as two seperate coax networks bridged through ethernet at a regular switch if you needed to.

How is the coax setup? Does it all run back to one room with a splitter there? Or are there multiple splitters through out the house?

If back to one room it should be pretty easy. Run the coax from the ONT to a splitter that has the actiontec router as well as all of the set top boxes located off this router. Then have a MoCA 2.0 bridge off a LAN port on the actiontec, or better yet on a seperate gigabit switch (that is connected to the actiontec through one of its LAN ports), and then have all of the coax you want on the MoCA 2.0 network patched in the splitter that the MoCA 2.0 to ethernet bridge that is connected to the gigabit switch is connected on.

That'll create two seperate physical coax networks plus the ethernet network (L1), but it'll bind everything together as on the L2 TCP network level. So it can pass everything around, but because of the physical network seperation there should be zero worries about MoCA 1.1 versus 2.0 (should, I have no idea how the bridges determine 1.1 versus 2.0, but if there is anyway to get it to work, this would be it).

 

[stevech]

Well that depends on the spec of the 1080P signal and also if it's carrying DTS, Dolby, HTX sound etc... also honestly I'd like to use my storage array for more than just movies, like backup and my own personal cloud in the house as well but that would only be viable with good speeds.

I take it that not many around here have really dealt with putting MoCA on different channels before? Can anyone point me to a good guide that explains this or some place I might be able to find this info?

The real heart of the question is, can I go from the wall CoAX drop to a splitter and then out to 2 different MoCA devices with each using a different channel? Or since it's coming from the same wall outlet will it still default to the lowest denominator?

MoCA devices should share the same frequency - time-share, just like 802.11/WiFi has to time share the same frequencies with nearby system. Of course, with MoCA, the sharing is only among your devices.

Like an ethernet switch, the MoCA layer 2 devices address their data frames.

 

[Googer]

BTW itpromike, I sent you a PM a few days ago so check your inbox.

 

[Googer]

Then have a MoCA 2.0 bridge off a LAN port on the actiontec, or better yet on a separate gigabit switch (that is connected to the actiontec through one of its LAN ports), and then have all of the coax you want on the MoCA 2.0 network patched in the splitter that the MoCA 2.0 to ethernet bridge that is connected to the gigabit switch is connected on.

That'll create two seperate physical coax networks plus the ethernet network (L1), but it'll bind everything together as on the L2 TCP network level. So it can pass everything around, but because of the physical network seperation there should be zero worries about MoCA 1.1 versus 2.0 (should, I have no idea how the bridges determine 1.1 versus 2.0, but if there is anyway to get it to work, this would be it).

I'm trying to get my hands on MoCA 2.0 bridges for my own setup here in the townhouse I'm renting as I'm not real happy with the performance I'm getting with the ethernet-over-power setup I'm currently using (which is maybe ever-so-slightly faster than MoCA 1.1 but very evidently too slow for doing heavy-duty file copying, etc.) and this is exactly what I'm intending on doing - set up a 2nd MoCA network completely independent of the existing 1.1 network that I also have from my FiOS setup (which I'm only currently actually using to connect the STB's to the router and of course get them the actual TV feed).

I actually already have the 2nd run of coax cable to all rooms in-place since this place was wired with dual runs to every room going back to the legacy (pre-digital) cable system in the Pittsburgh area that used some switched system to carry all the analog channels, so it should be real simple for me to get this wired correctly if only I can get my hands on the MoCA 2.0 equipment...

 

[CaptainSTX]

Not to confuse matters, but since you have a second extra and I assume not shared coaxial running through your home have you looked at the possibility of using Ethernet over coaxial adapters. Some of them offer gigabyte connection speeds.

Never used the technology so can't tell you if it really delivers. I do use the MOCA on my Actiontec router to delivers my 75/35 Internet connection to all my APs.

Additional Info:

For anyone that needs to extend an Ethernet connection beyond the normal 300 feet this technology my be the way to go. According to reviews on Amazon, for one particular manufacturer's equipment, the poster was able to get 130Mbps at 1,000 feet.

 

[Googer]

You're right that I have an entire second set of (currently-unused) coax running through the entire house, which is what I was intending on setting the MoCA 2.0 network on. I wasn't even really aware of ethernet-over-coax that wasn't MoCA, but sure enough, a search and I found a couple such devices. It's pricey though (~$200 / endpoint ballpark it looks like), I don't need the kind of range they support (i.e., 1+ mile), and it seems that they're all strictly point-to-point (as their use case is to link two buildings to one another, for example). Is it even possible to build out a network with these short of putting an adapter in the basement for every room plus one in each room, with the basement adapters connected via a standard ethernet switch?

 

[azazel1024]

Should be able to. Very expensive though and I don't know that you'd see much extra speed over a MoCA 2.0 setup, which supposedly can do 400/800Mbps. At guess that really means 250-500Mbps real data rates depending on how the coax is setup.

At least for speed at range...cat 6 would likely support longer distances for regular gigabit. I know its only rated to 100m gigabit too...but I'd bet my bottom dollar it can do further. Typical wiring is 24AWG for 5e and 22/23AWG for cat 6. Cat 6 also has a tighter twist and often a pair seperator to reduce cross talk further. I wouldn't count on cat6 carrying gigabit at full speed at 1000ft...but I'd be suprised if it couldn't do full speed at least up to 400-500ft with the 25% or so reduced wire resistance and reduced cross talk (IE better SNR ratio). No idea if it could do 1000ft at all at ANY speed, but it might be able to do it at much reduced speeds (maybe 130Mbps duplex? Which gigabit over coax isn't, is duplex).

Anyway, I'd see if you can score on the MoCA 2.0 stuff and I'd set it up as two physically seperate coax networks bridged at an ethernet switch.