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conduit or not?

Discussion in 'Switches, NICs and cabling' started by LogicalRon, Oct 21, 2019.

  1. LogicalRon

    LogicalRon Occasional Visitor

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    I'm building a new house and want to run my cat6 before they drywall. I plan to run extra cable to each possible box and even some walls that I may use in the future. I trying to decide if I should spend the extra cost of using conduit or just run the cable and you the nail in plastic holders ( wire clips ) to hold the cable in place. I'm doing this either with the electrician or after he is done so I can keep the cat6 the proper distance fro the electrical wires.

    Any thoughts or advice that would be helpful to me would be very much appreciated. I'm aware of keeping the bends proper and feel that would be easier without conduit?

    Any input is helpful

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. L&LD

    L&LD Part of the Furniture

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    Metal conduit? No. Very expensive for little to no benefits.

    Instead, I would recommend 2" or 3" PVC pipe(s) between logical locations between floors. :)

    I would also make a minimum of two runs to each room/location. Four runs to the more important areas.

    I would also highly recommend at least 10 runs at the expected 'WiFi activity center of the home' to place your main router or AP. Depending on how big the home is, I would do this for each floor/level too. This will give you flexibility to place a main router/AP's in the most optimum locations as needed in the future. Not limited by where the ISP termination enters the home.

    Make sure each run is thoroughly tested by a professional before the drywall goes up!

    If possible, don't terminate each run in a basement either. Think flooding, etc. :)

    Yes, that is a lot of cable to run. The flexibility, redundancy and possibilities it will provide though is priceless when optimizing the WiFi to the final (finished and future-variable), environment.
     
  3. dosborne

    dosborne Senior Member

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    (PVC) conduit is a great plan. You never know what you may want to run through the wall 5 years from now. I wouldn't bother running too much ahead of time as wiring standards / requirements do change, but having conduit is more than likely going to be useful at some point.

    Check the local building code as there may be requirements you have to meet.

    At all costs, avoid attaching the cabling to the inside of wàlls. Not only does this introduce potential for damaging the wire, but it also prevents you from easily removing it in the future (or using it to pull new wires). Again though, check the building code for requirements.

    Keep in mind that wifi is getting better and faster and in 5 or 10 years wired connections may not be required. Or, optical cabling maybe the thing to get. It's a crap shoot.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
    L&LD likes this.
  4. Greg72

    Greg72 Regular Contributor

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    It all depends on what you plan on hardwiring and how out of the way that you want A/P’s to be. Do not forget about looking at an outdoor A/P if planning out wanting to cover your lot, along with having conduit for Coax/Telephone/Possible Fiber pulls. You need to make sure that your electrician puts a Ground bond point from House Electric Ground rods to where the entrance for all Communications/TV will be located for entrance point. That point should be close to where the electric meter is going to be located. You can get lightening protection, etc from l-com .com.

    If Solar is in the future, I would run conduit and a ground bonding point up to the attic, along with a Genset conduit, if looking at backup.

    For every tv, run at least 1 Cat run. For the Entertainment cabinet/AV, you can get away with either a 5 or 8 port 10/100/1000 gbps switch.

    With Wifi tech getting better, you are seeing less use for wired runs.

    As for the A/P’s, I would place one in the main Living Room, One Outdoor A/P, one on the Second floor. Also stay away from the Nest stuff. Look at something like the Ecobee thermostats.

    The last is that tablets are becoming more of the norm. Start looking at those IoT devices and their app’s. The sad thing is that there is no single standard with mfg’s with Smarthome gear. The last thing that you want is a bunch of hubs to control different IoT devices.
     
  5. LogicalRon

    LogicalRon Occasional Visitor

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    First of all thank you for all the replies and I apologize for not replying sooner but I didn't get any email notifications so I didn't know there were replies.


    I will try to answer the first three replies in this one reply.


    L&LD thank you for the suggestion of running PVC pipes between my logical locations in important areas. If I was can use any kind of conduit I was can use the plastic gray conduit. The PVC would give me much more room and the ability to have nice slow curves to make future puls as well as the initial polls much easier.


    Although I've never wired a new home I've been doing my own home networking for the last 15 years so I'm pretty experienced in terminating and installing RJ-45 terminals, I have all the professional equipment for testing so I will be doing the testing and I'm pretty confident that once I terminate the Cat6 cables and test them all will be fine. I do appreciate you mentioning to have a professional do it because if I hadn't been doing it for as long as I have that would've been a good tip.


    I guess I should’ve described my new home and networking equipment in my original post.


    I'm building in 1800 Sq ft. single level rambler. I doubt very seriously that I will need any AP’s sense with the router I currently have I live in a 2500 Sq Ft rambler with a basement and don't have any signal problems whatsoever.


    The router that I'm using is the NETGEAR Smart WiFi Router with Dual Band Gigabit AC1750 (R6400-100NAS)
    the switch I bought is the NETGEAR 8-Port Gigabit Ethernet Unmanaged Switch (GS108) - Desktop, and ProSAFE Limited Lifetime Protection.

    I will be terminating at the location of each device that needs an Rj45 connection using Cat6 RJ45 Keystone Jack in White and Keystone Punch-Down Stand.

    I will also be using Low Profile 1 to 4-Port Keystone Jack Wall Plate in White.

    I have a large walk-in closet that will be very close to the center of the house and plan to connect all hardware like router, cable modem and switch in that walk-in closet.

    Dosborne, thanks for mentioning checking with local codes I would have forgotten that. You mentioned
    “At all costs, avoid attaching the cabling to the inside of wàlls. Not only does this introduce potential for damaging the wire, but it also prevents you from easily removing it in the future (or using it to pull new wires)”

    Can you please explain the part about avoiding attaching cabling to the inside of the walls? I will be installing all cable runs and PVC before the drywall is installed so I will be working with studs. The PVC will be anchored to a stud so your answer I quoted is a bit confusing to him me.

    I do realize that as the years go on the wifi I will get much better but since it will be easy and inexpensive installing all my home networking while the house is being built I want to run as many runs of Cat6.

    Greg72, thank you for your reply as well I plan on running several runs to each location or I will have RJ-45. I even plan on running Cat6 to areas for possible future use, since I will be doing this shortly after the frame the house it will be so much easier why not do it now? I mentioned above but I doubt I will need any AP’s but will make sure I make a couple runs to the possible locations in case I ever do need any.
    As far as tablets go I totally understand what you're saying my wife and I just recently bought the iPad Pro (2018 versions ) and there are only two of us who will be living in this house so I think we should be covered.

    Thank you for all the information you've given me in these first three replies and I apologize that I didn't reply to each one separately however like I said I never got a mail notification when each of you replied.

    If there are any other suggestions with the additional information that I've given feel free to add your input I appreciate all of it.
    Thanks
     
  6. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    Staples or wire connectors can distort or even cut cable shielding and the wires if they pinch. If you are running conduit, then no concern with attaching cables. make sure you stay well below 15% area fill in the conduit or it will be real difficult to pull anything through, even with elephant snot aiding. CAT6 may not like to be pulled too hard. Fiber Optic you cannot pull unless using an integrated wire and even then, i don't think it is recommended. We always practiced the "lay in" method rather than pulling for fiber.

    Use metal shields on the stud edges at any crossing to prevent trim carpenters and others from nailing/screwing into the conduit with nail guns. i had to patch several PVC drain lines and replace several electric cables when i was building my house.
     
  7. ddaenen1

    ddaenen1 Regular Contributor

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    I have all my UTP cables running through PVC conduit for 2 reasons: firstly to prevent any damage because of punctures, sharp edges or what not (don't want to say rodents because we do not have any where i live) and secondly, it enables you to run a new cable for whatever reason afterwards without too much hassle, whether it is because a cable is faulty, or just a spec upgrade or replace it with another type of cable (or fiber) with minimal (if any) invasive work. If you do it right first time, saves you a lot of hassle later on.
     
  8. follower

    follower Senior Member

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    Get these.

    1. PVC Electrical Conduit, bigger diameter is better.
    2. Fish tape.
     
  9. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    better - leave a pull cord in the conduit :)
     
    L&LD likes this.
  10. LogicalRon

    LogicalRon Occasional Visitor

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    When you people run PVC do you use the gray PVC ? also do you just run close to the spot that it will come out the wall and run the cabling out of the PVC down to the box electrical box? when crossing wooden studs so you cut holes and also where on the stud do you secure the PVC middle??
     
  11. coxhaus

    coxhaus Part of the Furniture

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    If you are going to use conduit then use thin PVC maybe use 2 45 degree angles instead of 1 90 degree if it will fit in the wall. It will pull easier.
     
  12. CaptainSTX

    CaptainSTX Part of the Furniture

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    Pay the electrical contractor to install the conduit. If you do it yourself you risk getting your conduits in the way of where other trades need to install things. Also you need to be sure the studs will not have to many or to large of holes so the framing will not pass inspection. Your cable runs also should be shown on the prints so when items are being installed after the drywall is hung so someone doesn't blindly cut or drill your conduit. You also may need to work with your drywall installer since you have added extra boxes to be roughed in after he bid on plans with x boxes and now you have x plus y boxes.
     
  13. coxhaus

    coxhaus Part of the Furniture

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    I would see if you can pay AT&T to cable you home and while you are at it ask for fiber to the home. Tell them you will sign a multi-year contract. Maybe they will give you a good deal. Make sure they do not cable your home for DSL. It is outdated. Pick a closet or garage for your wiring closet.

    PS
    If AT&T does the wiring don't concern yourself on whether they use conduit or not. It will work.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  14. LogicalRon

    LogicalRon Occasional Visitor

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    Okay dumb question alert!!!

    Assuming xbox is the blue electrical boxes what are y boxes?
     
  15. CaptainSTX

    CaptainSTX Part of the Furniture

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    Those are all the extra low voltage boxes that you are planning to install in addition to the 120/240 V boxes for power.
     
  16. dosborne

    dosborne Senior Member

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    You mentioned using "wire clips" in your post. Unless required by building code, nailing the wire to the studs is not a great idea as it becomes permanent. If not nailed, you could potentially use this wiring to pull new wiring in the future. The wire clips also crush the wires (to some extent, depending on the physical wire size and physical clip size) which could introduce issues. It is just a personal preference, but I like to leave the wires "free floating". Also makes it less likely to put a nail through the wire if hanging a picture on the wall or some other work.

    Conduit is really the way to go whether or not you install it yourself. When i had our house built, I had the builder install the pipes for a central vac. He wanted to charge too much for conduit for wires but would put the pipe for central vac in for free (or at least part of the default features of the house) lol

    I simply pulled the wires and did all the connector work myself.
     
  17. dosborne

    dosborne Senior Member

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    Hmm, not sure I would agree. Conduit allows for upgrades and repairs in the future rather than cutting / patching / painting drywall.
     
  18. dosborne

    dosborne Senior Member

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    Colour often indicates the rating of the [wire/conduit/etc].
    First step in answering these questions is checking your local building code. Consulting with a local electrician, and / or having them do the work, is strongly advised.

    If for example you install the wrong rating conduit, or drill through the wrong wall, or (insert a number of other things here), you could put yourself into a precarious position. If there was a fire for example, your insurance company could find you at fault and not cover any loss. Not saying it *would* happen, but I know it *could* as a friend had this happen to them.
     
  19. ddaenen1

    ddaenen1 Regular Contributor

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    I have always used conduit end-to-end. I do use a patchpanel on one end and in each case, i have an UTP RJ45 socket on the other end. IT allows alot of flexibility towards the future. Of course, you can also just pinch on an RJ$5 connector on both sides but even then, i would use conduit end-to-end.
     
  20. LogicalRon

    LogicalRon Occasional Visitor

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    Okay thanks so basically electrical and data boxes