Diary Of My Switch To Internet TV

[Lalato]

After reading this thread over the past few weeks, I've finally installed Plex and Boxee on my MacBook (2006 model). Quick thoughts after very cursory usage.

From what I can tell, Both Plex and Boxee seem fairly polished. Boxee is a bit easier to setup in that it comes with certain apps pre-installed (Netflix, Hulu, etc). Plex, on the other hand, requires you to install the apps yourself. It mitigates this by making the app install process very easy.

I have yet to add my own files to Boxee, but it seems fairly straightforward. I did some of my own files to Plex. I can access them, but it didn't seem to connect them so that it had pictures for each file in navigation.

Anyway, it's been fun reading about all the options here. Keep it up.
--sam

 

[determined]

another alternative

I have tried Zinc as well Boxee, I Boxee has more content but Zinc has a cleaner look to it.

http://zinc.tv

 

[Stork]

From the Mac Perspective & Two Homes

Best thread I've come across on this subject. I'm tempted to "cut the cable/satellite" as well. But, I have two constraints. First, I have two homes - a Summer house and a Winter house. (Yep, I'm retired.) Second, I love my sports, being a ex-college athlete (basketball & tennis), and my wife is an artist who likes the PBS and HGTV craft shows. Both of us are Fox News, CNN HLN and Weather Channel watchers. I'm into CNBC's Squawk Box and Fast Money shows.

DirecTV solves both of my problems for now. I'm either in one place or the other. DirecTV allows me to carry my STBs back and forth. So far, so good.

My Summer home is on a island in Lake Michigan, 20 nm from each Michigan land mass. Since the conversion to digital OTA TV, I'm dependent solely on DirecTV on the island. However, the telco has just made DSL available which I'll sign up for when we migrate North for the Summer. (Up to 10mb! Hopefully, I can get that speed.)

So, long story to tell you my experimental digital TV setup is driven by an Apple TV, Mac Mini and MacBookPro. The Apple TV is great when using the iTunes. However, I've hacked the ATV, both h/w & s/w. I'm running Boxee and XBMC off of an external 1TB SATA drive. (The engineer in me needs to keep the left side of my brain active.) Although, Boxee beta improved the "experience", it's still a work in progress. However, ATV and iTunes has a high WAF rating.

I'm just getting into the Mini & Plex and the other plethora of add-ons. I've just finish the setup which mimics this guys setup:
http://heysage.com/2009/08/29/mac-mini-home-media-server/. If you want, I can supply more info (references) on Mini to HDTV connection and the s/w used to get the screen resolution correct.

This past Winter, I've ripped most of my DVDs to play either on the ATV or Mini. For the near term, both units will travel with us when we play snowbirds. BTW, our music goes with us on the ATV, Mini & MPB.

So, I've been really interested in the maturity of Boxee and Plex, along with Hulu and Netflix. The less hardware I have to haul around the better. Right now, hauling the three units is not taxing the WAF, it's my seven guitars and an amp that's pushing the envelope.

I'm interest in how you guys solve the lack of real time sports and network news on the 'net. I'll check out myP2P for the sports angle and, like Convergent, report back on progress if a eureka occurs.

Finally, Thiggins, you've got a great site, and I look forward to your reviews. I've added a D-Link DNS 323 to my home network after reading your review and, just last week, a Synology DS110j. Both are worthy candidates for home NAS. But, the Synology DSM 2.3 s/w is the closest thing to plug and play I've seen for home computing.

 

[Unregistered]

remotes

Looking at a remote for my media center pc. Logitech looks nice but in researching there are a number of iphone/ipad/ipod touch apps that work as wifi remotes wonder if anyone has any experience using them? It would be cheaper for me since I own a iphone.

 

[thiggins]

Thanks for adding your experiences, Stork.

I'm still experimenting. So far, the Roku HD provides the pleasant, reliable and best-looking experience. The worst it has done is restart a stream to drop to a lower stream rate if it detects that bandwidth is lacking. It never has glitched, broken up or done anything to make you think that you are watching Internet-streamed content.

I've said it before, if Netflix could come to terms with TV content providers, they'd have the market sewn up. Seriously. You just can't beat it for $99.

Boxee and Hulu desktop always do something to cause a reboot, restart or something that makes Ms. SmallNetBuilder roll her eyes and let me know that it's not yet time to pull the plug. Even though I've said I'll pay her the $100/month that I would otherwise pay DTV.

Sports isn't an issue for me. But I'd say that you'll have to descend into the more shadowy parts of the Net if you want those real-time. Otherwise, it'll have to be Torrents.

 

[thiggins]

Looking at a remote for my media center pc. Logitech looks nice but in researching there are a number of iphone/ipad/ipod touch apps that work as wifi remotes wonder if anyone has any experience using them? It would be cheaper for me since I own a iphone.

I've been playing with RemoteX, AirMouse on the iTouch and Mobile AirMouse Pro on the iPad. I've also used the Boxee remote app.

All will get the job done for cursor movement. Where they fall down is when you need keyboard keys.

The iPhone / iTouch screen is too small to fit everything, so both RemoteX and AirMouse make you switch between screens to access things. Problem is they don't have all the keys you need on one screen. So when you need something as simple as the backspace or tab keys (used a lot by Hulu desktop and Boxee), they aren't right there. Very frustrating.

Best so far is is Mobile AirMouse Pro on the iPad. The keyboard screen has all the keyboard keys you need.

I'm still going to add an IR remote to the Aspire Revo so that I can eventually control it with my Harmony One. For high WAF, you can't require futzing with multiple remotes!

 

[tipstir]

I own about 3x of these, once you get the code to get them reduce then I order them directly for Lenov. Of course you have to sign for them.

http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphoto...02392120_100000324533142_154150_5887531_s.jpg


This above the N5901 wireless keyboard and roller mouse
Anyway the above neat to use. Ball is very accurate. I use it two Quad-core that are connected via HDMI to 2x HDTVs running SageTV HD for blue-ray, DVD upscale 1080p, online content directly from youtube, google video an etc.

http://di1.shopping.com/images1/pi/ef/fa/8e/38445280-177x150-0-0.jpg

I use the above with Female voice prompted pre-coded, learning any type of remote universal 6-in-1 remote. Was made for Radio Shack buy the same company that makes the HDTV/DVR remote for Cox Communications. So out the box the remote can work with those Motorola DCT HD/DVR series. STB. Neat feature on the remote is when the battery is low, she's speak and say "batteries are low" and flick the lights to let you know.

 

[Unregistered]

What about Zinc

Zinc aggregates Netflix, Hulu, and about 20 other providers in a single crisp 10-foot interface. And it's free. So why not let Ms. SmallNetBuilder have a go at Zinc?

 

[thiggins]

Zinc aggregates Netflix, Hulu, and about 20 other providers in a single crisp 10-foot interface. And it's free. So why not let Ms. SmallNetBuilder have a go at Zinc?

Just gave it a quick check. Seems to require too much from my Aspire 3160. Video was very jerky, then locked up. Also could not figure out how to get out of video play mode using a Win MCE remote.

 

[davemex]

My solution

First of all I just want to say that I love the WAF approach to validating whether or not a solution is a success. I started down this path about a year and a half ago with a similar objective: a non cable home media solution that functions easy enough for my wife to be able to use it.

My solution ended up being somewhat inverted from what you decided to do though. Instead of relying on the media player to be able to aggregate all of the content at the point of consumption, I experimented heavily with server-side solutions for content collection and then a very simple device connected to my TV as the player. I ended up going with an Xbox 360 as my media player but in retrospect something a little more advanced would have been preferred due to the Xbox's limited ability to navigate folders or read files (another downside is that I now own a couple games, which I'd rather not get sucked into wasting my time on). By using a dedicated player, I can also almost guarantee that the interface will pass the WAF, since the content has been long cleaned up before hitting my TV. The Xbox also has native support for Netflix, which I feel works really well.

In order to collect media from the myriad of online sources I found three popular applications that I put through the paces before settle on a final solution. I'm sure you've heard of these because of your exposure to the home server community. They are Orb, TVersity, and Twonky. I'm running Windows Home Server so any of these programs work fine (Ubuntu Server was nice but Twonky is the only program out of those three that currently has a Linux build). Also, I used a computer with about the same horsepower as your Revo for my DIY home server to make sure it could handle the real time transcoding if needed (it's a 2.8ghz pentium dual core, 4gb RAM and 4 WD Green 1TB drives - admittedly a little more power than the Revo but minus the drives probably about the same $. the Revo would do the same job fine though)

Orb is probably the most fully featured product out of those three. Orb can take all of the media stored on your home server, internet TV, capture cards, and a few web sources and send it effortlessly to your home media player, remote computer (if you're on vacation, for example), or even cell phone. The down sides of Orb though are that A) It won't pull in Hulu content or any web sources other than what it comes with and B) It seemed to transcode all content to a lower resolution before sending it to my TV, which caused some stuttering and a lower quality viewing experience. The only thing I use this for now is the cell phone functionality and for listening to my music while at work (it uses port 80 so corporate firewalls don't typically block the stream).

Twonky is a very simple program that collects all of your content stored on the media server along with youtube videos and any online pictures you have. The down side is that it doesn't transcode (that I have been able to configure at least) so your player will have to be able to handle the file.

Tversity seems to be the best of both worlds, as it will handle RSS feeds, Hulu, and your local media. It can also transcode media in real time to make sure that regardless of the source, your player will be able to handle it by the time it gets there, whether it's a Hulu stream or an MKV file.

By using Tversity to collect media and send it to the TV I've found that I've created a solution that my wife now easily picks up and goes straight to watching TV on. The best part about this solution is that unless I manually add any media to the NAS (new vacation photos or a new CD for example), the whole set up pretty much works hands off! This is absolutely crucial for me so that when I travel for business I know I won't have to field the panicked "honey this stupid thing won't work" phone call (you know what I'm talking about here... )

I do want to add a couple small points just for the sake of disclosure. First, I do still have cable, as my wife seems to occasionally torture me by watching the garbage on Lifetime (maybe I should "accidentally" cancel cable to break that habit). Second, although Hulu, Netflix, and other online sources combined create a great program base, it is still much harder to achieve what you're trying to do legally than through more nefarious channels. I know that as a respected information source you can't advocate the use of torrents as a primary means of content acquisition, but it is so convenient that it should really be a wake up call to the TV industry. Using a service like showrss I can have my home server automatically download any High Def TV show that I follow the minute a new show is posted through the use of RSS feeds. I really hope the day comes soon when all the licensing is straightened out in a way that makes the right way, also the easy way. Sadly, I don't see this coming very quickly.

Hope this helps some! Sorry if it's a bit lengthy.

 

[thiggins]

Thanks for the post davemex.

I'll take a peek at TVersity. At least from the description, seems similar to PlayOn. How much does the Pro version cost? I can't find the price on the TVersity site, at least not easily.

I have to agree with the ease / advantage of Torrents. I have been experimenting with EZTV and uTorrent mostly and catching up on a lot of back episodes of shows. I will probably sign up for Hulu's pay service if they offer enough back content. Otherwise, you're right, the Torrents are the only way to get everything you want.
I'm not interested in building a library. Who needs one, once you can get what you want easily from the Cloud? I just delete the shows after we've watched them.

 

[davemex]

The Pro version of Tversity is $40. I actually just installed PlayOn today after reading this series of articles and you're right, it is very similar to Tversity in regards to the ability to play web content. I *think* Tvesity may be a little more versatile in it's configurability but I'm also thinking it could be more advanced in the regard.

I'll install them both side by side and check the quality out on both of them.

It sounds like you're doing pretty much the same thing I am with the torrents right now. EZTV and uTorrent. With 4TB of storage space I guess my approach has been to create "my own cloud" rather than rely on streaming from the cloud for everything. This is why I've tried out just about any Windows or Linux streaming software I could get my hands on with the ultimate goal of having total media convergence on all my household's media devices (laptops, tvs, cell phones, etc). I will say though that I would gladly pay for a couple of these services if they combined to give me the ultimate solution without having to download tons of media and store it forever (ex Netflix + Hulu). My cable bill is only $30 a month though (package deal with the internet and I have no movie channels) so it would have to be under that to make it worth while. The constant on-demand access is a big value add though.

Keep up the great work though! Your web site has been a great resource throughout my endeavors!

-Dave

 

[vnangia]

I wanted to go Internet TV-only, myself, but alas, I was overruled and had to incorporate cable TV into the setup. However, the system that I got up and running over this past long weekend seems to be working reasonably well now, completely DRM-free, and I can stream to any device anywhere in the world. As long as you don't have to make head or tails of the diagram, that is ... and I attach it for your entertainment.

 

[HeyRadar]

All I want is a Hulu Box (to meet WF)

I've owned several "media boxes" and I own PlayOn, etc., but the makers of these boxes just don't get it. The interfaces are ugly and clumsy and hard to navigate. Which impacts the "wife factor".

The only way these "media box" manufacturers will take off is with the "wife factor". Why don't they get it?!! I can spend $500 for one IF it meets the "wife factor". Otherwise I'm lucky if I can spend $50 for it.


It doesn't have to do all this other crazy stuff like RSS feeds, etc., that she'll never/rarely use. But if it does support these other features, it needs to be easy to navigate to Hulu or Netflix, etc.. Similar to using the iPad or a Smart Phone just scroll and click.

Luckily I think that time is almost here. I think I'm going to be able to convince my wife to let us buy a new blu-ray player that does Hulu. (e.g. Samsung BD-C6900). Its retail is $350, and I really don't care for the blu-ray player, but it has a slick interface and does Hulu and I can download newer apps to it.

As they saying goes "if you build it, they will come".

P.S. I not sure the Boxee Box will do it. If its anything like the PC version, its got too much fluff.

 

[thiggins]

Before you buy that Blu-ray player, better see if it supports Hulu Plus. And be sure that Hulu has most / all the content you want to see.

For high WAF, you need only a simple user interface, but wide content selection. Roku's players meet the first requirement, but not the second.

 

[flamaest]

Re: Google TV Sucks, At Least For Now:

Wow this sucks big time.

$300 for this, geez, what the heck was google thinking? This needs 6 months of R&D before it can be sold.

This unit does not even play DVD VOB files, OMG, straight into the trashcan I say. My XBOX V1 does this over the network and it's 50 bucks at gamestop, geez.

F.

 

[DaveMcLain]

I'm amazed that the Google box was allowed to come out so half baked. I seem to think that none of this is a problem with hardware or software but is instead strictly a problem with contract negotiations. Awful.

I have the Roku XD/S box and my WAF has been fine. She likes the new Netflix tiled interface a lot and it's only real weakness is that it takes time to enter search data.

 

[thiggins]

I'm amazed that the Google box was allowed to come out so half baked. I seem to think that none of this is a problem with hardware or software but is instead strictly a problem with contract negotiations. Awful.

There are still some "to-dos" for the software. But the major issue is the same that all the other Internet media player devices face, i.e. content owners who want to stick with their current distribution model.

Once content owners decide to play ball, GTV will be another, although expensive, Internet TV alternative.

 

[DaveMcLain]

There are still some "to-dos" for the software. But the major issue is the same that all the other Internet media player devices face, i.e. content owners who want to stick with their current distribution model.

I agree. And also I need to remember that I've had a Roku box for 2 years and it's evolved a tremendous amount during that time period. If the Google TV takes a similar course it will be quite impressive.

I really hope the owners of the content can get on board.

I live in a rural area and this makes setting up an antenna to receive OTA broadcasts is not practical. What I would like to see would be a website that works like Radiotime/Tune In whereby I could enter the call letters of the station of choice and then simply watch their live stream via the internet, adds and all. Why isn't this happening?

 

[thiggins]

I live in a rural area and this makes setting up an antenna to receive OTA broadcasts is not practical. What I would like to see would be a website that works like Radiotime/Tune In whereby I could enter the call letters of the station of choice and then simply watch their live stream via the internet, adds and all. Why isn't this happening?

first, stations want viewers in their broadcast area to not have other viewing alternatives. That's why you can't get local stations in all areas on DirecTv.

Bigger issue is the same thing holding up Internet TV in general: money. Networks and content owners want to be paid for streaming rights. I'm sure they want a lot, just like music companies did for streaming.

Finally, local stations would have bandwidth costs to absorb or get paid for.

This is not a technical problem.