Is the RT-AX88U Pro overkill with PFSense?

[Ripshod]

I fancy one of these would be more up our street

 

[Tekomancer]

Picked up a couple of the EAP610s, delivered today. The Omada Cloud interface definitely has a more corporate feel than the Asus stuff - that shouldn't be as much of a surprise as it was. In any case, I have about 50% increase to Wi-Fi speed on my phone and strong signal everywhere. Cost so far is a bit more than half of what the AX88U Pro would have been. The OC200 controller just had a price bump, so I'll let the unRaid docker handle it for now, though I'll want to switch it pretty soon so that I don't lose Wi-Fi when I do server maintenance . I'm kind of wishing I'd bought 650 or 660s, but what I have works well enough. Since my cables likely cap out at around a gig, there probably wouldn't be too much point in the upgrade anyways.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Tech9]

Awesome. Enjoy.

Wi-Fi doesn’t stop when the controller is down. Controller related features only become unavailable. Continue using what you already have.

 

[drinkingbird]

Picked up a couple of the EAP610s, delivered today. The Omada Cloud interface definitely has a more corporate feel than the Asus stuff - that shouldn't be as much of a surprise as it was. In any case, I have about 50% increase to Wi-Fi speed on my phone and strong signal everywhere. Cost so far is a bit more than half of what the AX88U Pro would have been. The OC200 controller just had a price bump, so I'll let the unRaid docker handle it for now, though I'll want to switch it pretty soon so that I don't lose Wi-Fi when I do server maintenance . I'm kind of wishing I'd bought 650 or 660s, but what I have works well enough. Since my cables likely cap out at around a gig, there probably wouldn't be too much point in the upgrade anyways.

Thanks again for the help!

When I ditched my 24x7 servers I stopped running the Ubiquiti controller unless I needed to make config changes. At that point I wasn't running seamless roaming or anything that needed it. I suspect TP Link is similar, you won't lose wifi, maybe a couple features that won't have major impact for that brief time. Your setup is a lot better match now (not to mention much more flexible and feature rich) and like you say, cheaper.

 

[drinkingbird]

Picked up a couple of the EAP610s, delivered today. The Omada Cloud interface definitely has a more corporate feel than the Asus stuff - that shouldn't be as much of a surprise as it was. In any case, I have about 50% increase to Wi-Fi speed on my phone and strong signal everywhere. Cost so far is a bit more than half of what the AX88U Pro would have been. The OC200 controller just had a price bump, so I'll let the unRaid docker handle it for now, though I'll want to switch it pretty soon so that I don't lose Wi-Fi when I do server maintenance . I'm kind of wishing I'd bought 650 or 660s, but what I have works well enough. Since my cables likely cap out at around a gig, there probably wouldn't be too much point in the upgrade anyways.

Thanks again for the help!

I'm sure the CIO would be proud too.

Your CAT5 *might* do 2.5 gig fine, or with minimal drops only during heavy load. No way to tell without trying it. But in reality over a gig on wireless is hard to do and typically unnecessary.

Depending how he ran the cables, you might be able to pull through new stuff if ever needed too.

Some like to fasten it, some leave it loose. I run flexible duct when possible and leave a pull cord in there, when that's not possible I leave it unfastened in hopes it could be used to pull through new stuff if needed.

 

[Tekomancer]

Wi-Fi doesn’t stop when the controller is down. Controller related features only become unavailable. Continue using what you already have.

I suspect TP Link is similar, you won't lose wifi, maybe a couple features that won't have major impact for that brief time. Your setup is a lot better match now (not to mention much more flexible and feature rich) and like you say, cheaper.

Fantastic. Looks like I got out the door for a lot less than expected. Is it weird that I almost feel let down that I don't get to buy more tech toys?

Your CAT5 *might* do 2.5 gig fine, or with minimal drops only during heavy load. No way to tell without trying it. But in reality over a gig on wireless is hard to do and typically unnecessary.

I don't have 2.5 Gb switches. I'm pretty sure the ports on my router don't handle 2.5 either. Between that and the cables, my current space probably won't be that fast

Depending how he ran the cables, you might be able to pull through new stuff if ever needed too.

Some like to fasten it, some leave it loose. I run flexible duct when possible and leave a pull cord in there, when that's not possible I leave it unfastened in hopes it could be used to pull through new stuff if needed.

Good call. I have a cheap endoscope I could probably fish up the wall to see if/how the cables are connected. Maybe my next upgrade is going for totally overkill CAT8

The EAP650 and EAP660 offer better performance than the EAP610, but they are also more expensive. If you are satisfied with the performance of the EAP610, there is no need to upgrade.

"Satisfied" is such a strong word... I'm thankful that the Wi-Fi should be more stable. After segregating the 2.4 and 5Ghz networks again, my 5Ghz speed test is back down to previous levels (~600 Mb/s) though I'm not sure why, as I was testing from the same place. Generally speaking, I try to buy for several years out instead of what's good enough for today. I have enough upstream components that want attention before I can realistically worry too much about this though.

 

[Tech Junky]

switches

Since you're using pfsense you could put a nic in the box and run the APs to it directly. I use a qnap quad 5ge and they run a about $200.

buy more tech toys?

Soen idea will come to mind and you'll be on the hunt for something.

Looks like I got out the door for a lot less than expected.

That's what happens when you don't use routers as APs.

2.4 and 5Ghz networks again, my 5Ghz speed test is back down to previous levels (~600 Mb/s) though

Might be time to look at the machines and WiFi modules. Quick and cheap upgrades. Depending on the CPU version you can get dct modules that combine both bands for that extra bandwidth.

 

[coxhaus]

You might have been better off with 3 Cisco wireless 150ax APs. They have a controller built-in to each unit so any of them can manage the group. They do it automatically. If the primary controller unit in the AP goes down another AP takes over automatically.

Last time I bought a Cisco 150ax AP it was $102. You could buy 3 for $306.

 

[Tekomancer]

Since you're using pfsense you could put a nic in the box and run the APs to it directly. I use a qnap quad 5ge and they run a about $200.

pfSense is running on a mini fanless PC. Nothing is getting into that tiny little box - no upgrades either. When the time for 2.5+ comes, that's going to have to be the first upgrade.

You might have been better off with 3 Cisco wireless 150ax APs. They have a controller built-in to each unit so any of them can manage the group. They do it automatically. If the primary controller unit in the AP goes down another AP takes over automatically.

Last time I bought a Cisco 150ax AP it was $102. You could buy 3 for $306.

Why three, unless they like overlap a lot more than standard WAPs? I like the idea of the built in controller but, other than that, I don't see an advantage. Since I can run the controller for free as a docker on existing hardware, I'm shocking ok with the implemented solution. BTW these type of posts are the ones that make me the most nervous... "Oh, you went with that? If you'd gone with this instead, it would be twice as fast for half the money and your wife would think you're handsome."

 

[Tech Junky]

"Oh, you went with that? If you'd gone with this instead, it would be twice as fast for half the money and your wife would think you're handsome."

There's always going to be that sort of thing. Ignore it and make best use of what you chose. There's always something better or cheaper but, it's not always the best solution for you. The main objective was not to invest $500 in a router to use as an AP. You have better coverage and stable speeds. If you want to progress in speeds there are options to do so.

There's no real point in going behind this setup until BE starts gaining momentum and products start coming out. That's when it will make sense to do a complete network overhaul from cabling to hardware from the ground up. That's when speeds can hit 5GE on single clients. Right now even ax/e can max out at 1.7ge. Just wait a year or so before putting more effort into making things "better" as it's just not worth the effort or money right now.

Though 600mbps seems a bit low if properly configured on the AP and client. If the clients are using old WiFi modules that's where I would start upgrading with ax210 adapters to get closer to 960mbps.

 

[drinkingbird]

pfSense is running on a mini fanless PC. Nothing is getting into that tiny little box - no upgrades either. When the time for 2.5+ comes, that's going to have to be the first upgrade.


Why three, unless they like overlap a lot more than standard WAPs? I like the idea of the built in controller but, other than that, I don't see an advantage. Since I can run the controller for free as a docker on existing hardware, I'm shocking ok with the implemented solution. BTW these type of posts are the ones that make me the most nervous... "Oh, you went with that? If you'd gone with this instead, it would be twice as fast for half the money and your wife would think you're handsome."

He'll also tell you to put in a layer 3 switch. What you have is perfect for what you need.

 

[Tech9]

Only if the switch is Cisco and you are building a gaming network.

 

[elp]

I replaced my 5 year old AC tplink APs that i was managing with Omada Controller with Asus routers (AX88U / 2 AX86S) with AI Mesh enabled.

Asus routers have uncomparable range and speed and really have seamless roaming, in my experience its not just a marketing term. I can run from the top floor front balcony to the floor bellow back balcony with stable ping and speed that never drop bellow 800Mbit in speedtest.

I have tested APs without mesh in the past and the only way to achieve good roaming and speed is to limit the RSSI for roaming to a ridiculous level that will limit APs coverage a lot (no wifi in balconies and basement). In my understanding for seamless roaming and speed without limited range the APs must communicate with each other. That way they know when you have better signal from another AP and advise your phone to disconnect from them.

My roaming experience with Omada was restricted by their low range so it is hard to compare, i guess if the APs where positioned better and newer more expensive models it might be equally good. Positioning APs better is not an option for me because there are limited places in my house that are safe from my son and approved by my wife.

In general i am extremely happy with Asus AI mesh and their routers in general. I frequently read this forum and others so i am aware of the numerous problems people have but personally since my first AC86U and until now i only had a problem once with high ping on AX88U factory firmware. Occasionally some features may not work flawlessly but most of the times my tplink / avm fritz routers don't even have this features and Mikrotik will make you sweat until you configure them.

I just bought a AX86U Pro, if someone is in europe there is a great price for them at amazon.it, around 162 euro + vat/delivery fee.

 

[Tech9]

I replaced my 5 year old AC tplink APs that i was managing with Omada Controller with Asus routers

You got your AX88U about 4 years ago. How old hardware would be your Omada now? Must be few generations being to what we discuss here.

Reading your old posts - 4 floors + basement and 2x APs per floor? This makes 8-10x APs. No wonder you had roaming issues. Wi-Fi needs planning.

 

[elp]

You got your AX88U about 4 years ago. How old hardware would be your Omada now? It's a few generations being to what we discuss here.

I just searched online and the tplinks where indeed old, some of them where released at 2017. Although i have recently bought many tplink routers for my rental apartments i have never bought an expensive one to make an equal comparison. Compared to my Chateau AX and Fritz AX, Asus has better wifi performance. I don't doubt the newer expensive tplink models will have good hardware but still a 2X2 AP usually has less range than a 4X4 router.

 

[Tech9]

Maximum range of single AP is not the goal for APs designed to work in groups. I have a place in Europe with 4x APs and had to reduce the power of each one for optimum results. Now with your AiMesh (marketing name, not much a "mesh) you have no control over the "nodes" whatsoever. You perhaps had too many APs in non-optimal places and got lucky with home routers. How many business places you know with home routers hanging on the walls?

 

[elp]

Maximum range of single AP is not the goal for APs designed to work in groups. I have a place in Europe with 4x APs and had to reduce the power of each one for optimum results. Now with your AiMesh (marketing name, not much a "mesh) you have no control over the "nodes" whatsoever. You perhaps had too many APs in non-optimal places and got lucky with home routers. How many business places you know with home routers hanging on the walls?

Everything you say apply to my workplace too but in my opinion it is different in houses, both the requirements and the budget. Often in houses there are hard to reach rooms and outdoor places that is extremely costly to run cables to. Also there are very limited places to place APs/routers so range can be very important.

 

[drinkingbird]

Everything you say apply to my workplace too but in my opinion it is different in houses, both the requirements and the budget. Often in houses there are hard to reach rooms and outdoor places that is extremely costly to run cables to. Also there are very limited places to place APs/routers so range can be very important.

Range (power) of the router is only one half of the equation, you can jack up the power all you want to make the signal strength look good but it will be deceiving. You can get much better performance for the money by buying dedicated good quality APs. They all use similar technologies for "seamless" roaming (none are truly seamless, not yet), AiMesh is actually pretty primitive by comparison to some of the others.

If you've got the money and like the asus interface then by all means drop $500 to $1000 on a few routers to use as APs, but you're going to be paying for a ton of stuff that won't be used. Likely you'd be able to get better performance for half the price (or less).

 

[elp]

Range (power) of the router is only one half of the equation, you can jack up the power all you want to make the signal strength look good but it will be deceiving.

I think all my routers and APs have the same power limit that depends on frequency range because of EU laws (thats why some people here buy routers with chinese firmware so they have more power). That doesn't mean they have the same range when keeping max speed.

They all use similar technologies for "seamless" roaming (none are truly seamless, not yet), AiMesh is actually pretty primitive by comparison to some of the others.

If you've got the money and like the asus interface then by all means drop $500 to $1000 on a few routers to use as APs, but you're going to be paying for a ton of stuff that won't be used. Likely you'd be able to get better performance for half the price (or less).

I personally use the extra features and the ability to script but even if i didn't do you think that replacing the Asus routers with TP-LINK EAP620HD that cost slightly less or Zyxel WAX610D that cost slightly more could offer better performance? Maybe prices are different in US, but in Europe it is very common for Amazon to sell Asus routers with great discounts (with amazon as seller) and not the other brands.

 

[drinkingbird]

I think all my routers and APs have the same power limit that depends on frequency range because of EU laws (thats why some people here buy routers with chinese firmware so they have more power). That doesn't mean they have the same range when keeping max speed.


I personally use the extra features and the ability to script but even if i didn't do you think that 4 TP-LINK EAP620HD that cost slightly less could offer better performance? Everything else, even 4 Zyxel WAX620D cost 50% more.

You're doing scripting on your APs? Or you're saying that you want scripting on your main router thus have spent money for all Asus/Aimesh nodes in order to keep that?

The OP here has a PFSENSE router and was just looking for wifi to add to it, the PFSENSE can do all the advanced features (and more) that Asus scripting can, but to take advantage of guest segmentation you need VLANs, which only the Asus Pro routers have (at least out of the box, in the GUI). They stated the EAP610s they bought are giving them double their old AC performance for half the price of the Asus they would have needed with VLAN support. In this case, it was the right move.

There are plenty of semi-pro grade APs out there for $100 or less each. Even Cisco ones are in the low $100s if you find the right place to buy. Perhaps different in the EU but in the US it is very easy to get good APs for reasonable prices.

If you're just looking at out of the box mesh systems that include a router and have some support for more advanced stuff, then maybe the Asus is right for you, but that isn't the case for all.