Linksys Announces Velop Mesh Wi-Fi System

[Pericynthion]

Have you read the Orbi review?
Highly unlikely it can out-do Orbi. 4x4 backhaul vs. 2x2. I expect performance similar to eero.

When mesh is doing multiple hops, it eats up backhaul bandwidth and reduces throughput available to the device.

So heres a related question. If i currently have ethernet to either end and the middle of the house, I believe I can use it as a wired backhaul (effectively turning the nodes into a clustered access point config). I've always had trouble getting multiple discrete APs to overlap and roam properly, so I'm hoping the mesh seamless roaming will work as advertised)

I know the Linksys Velop and Google Wifi support this wired backhaul config - but neither support bridge mode (which may or may not turn out to be an issue for me). The Asus hivespot looks like another option but I was looking for something sooner than Q2.

Anyone got these or something similar running and any gotchas with either vendor configuration?

Thanks

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[thiggins]

Keep in mind devices are in control when it comes to roaming. So the new systems might not solve your problems either.

None of the mesh / distributed wireless systems currently automatically adjust power to minimize overlap.

Google Wifi does not support bridge mode.

 

[whsbuss]

Google Wifi does not support bridge mode.

I'm starting to think Google doesn't want to allow IP configuration by the user because it may be tied into their data collection software. Bridge mode is no biggie to implement.

 

[PieceOfChum]

Of course..I ignore just about everyone else wrt to networking reviews.

We'll see. Got my tracking number for my Velop 3-pack and if they turn on the Zibgee i'll give it a whirl.

Did you get your Velop? Do you like it does it work well?

 

[hmurchison]

Did you get your Velop? Do you like it does it work well?

I felt like the install process was easier than my Luma system. It may seem trivial but I really enjoy having status lights as opposed to none on the Luma. My home is 3900 sq ft and I've found no dead spots. Linksys range estimates may be correct. 1 node covers the entire 1800 sq ft main floor just fine. Advanced features are sparse lucky I don't have a to do any advanced config.

I have a 4 yr old MacBook Air and I was easily able to perceive the difference between the Luma and Velop. Latency feels shorter with the Velop. How much of that is attributable to AC2200 vs AC1200 I don't know. Let me know if you want me to check anything


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[Pericynthion]

I felt like the install process was easier than my Luma system. It may seem trivial but I really enjoy having status lights as opposed to none on the Luma. My home is 3900 sq ft and I've found no dead spots. Linksys range estimates may be correct. 1 node covers the entire 1800 sq ft main floor just fine. Advanced features are sparse lucky I don't have a to do any advanced config.

I have a 4 yr old MacBook Air and I was easily able to perceive the difference between the Luma and Velop. Latency feels shorter with the Velop. How much of that is attributable to AC2200 vs AC1200 I don't know. Let me know if you want me to check anything


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I know the router function is pretty limited (fixed DHCP ranges etc) - but does it support UPNP?

Do you find a device roams seamlessly between the nodes , or is it just like a regular handoff / drop between access points?

And finally how is it doing placing the nodes on the appropriate 2.4/5Ghz radio via band steering?


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[thiggins]

How much of that is attributable to AC2200 vs AC1200 I don't know.

All radios are 2x2. Velop just has one more 5 GHz radio, dedicated to backhaul.

 

[Chairman007]

I've had my velop 3 node system in place for a few days. Patiently awaiting Tim's review. Stability has been solid, but my 2 orbi system definitely brought slightly higher download speeds. App is nicer than orbi's. I feel orbi wins though in terms of performance & the additional ports & USB potential. velop gets the nod in form factor. No drops observed with velop. No buffering issues seen yet with streaming either over wi-fi.

 

[riel_net]

I've had my velop 3 node system in place for a few days. Patiently awaiting Tim's review. Stability has been solid, but my 2 orbi system definitely brought slightly higher download speeds. App is nicer than orbi's. I feel orbi wins though in terms of performance & the additional ports & USB potential. velop gets the nod in form factor. No drops observed with velop. No buffering issues seen yet with streaming either over wi-fi.

I found it strange that users could connect to either 5GHz channel unlike the orbi. The parental controls is over stated. Can't group devices and web filtering is by adding URLs. Also found the app to be unreliable and showing devices that are connected as offline and others that left the house still showing connected. Orbi is much better for the money in my opinion and if you have speeds above 250Mb/s.

 

[thiggins]

I found it strange that users could connect to either 5GHz channel unlike the orbi.

Were you forcing the client to connect to a specific channel? How did you confirm the channel # clients were connecting to?

 

[riel_net]

Were you forcing the client to connect to a specific channel? How did you confirm the channel # clients were connecting to?

I use a tool on a few devices that shows me the network and channel I am on. I would see one connected to 36 and the other connected to 161. What made me return the Velop was that my Macbook kept jumping between 36 and 161 while I was using it. Didn't drop the connection but noticed slowness during this odd time. Unlike the orbi where the backhaul is sort of hidden you can see each node was broadcasting the single SSID on both 5GHz channels.

 

[thiggins]

I use a tool on a few devices that shows me the network and channel I am on. I would see one connected to 36 and the other connected to 161. What made me return the Velop was that my Macbook kept jumping between 36 and 161 while I was using it. Didn't drop the connection but noticed slowness during this odd time. Unlike the orbi where the backhaul is sort of hidden you can see each node was broadcasting the single SSID on both 5GHz channels.

Thanks for the info. I'll keep an eye on that during testing.

There is nothing inherently bad with using both low and high 5 GHz channels for client connection. But the frequent bouncing between channels is something they may need to tune. I have a few more questions if you don't mind:

- How often did the channel change? How long was it between channel changes?
- Are there many surrounding 5 GHz networks?
- How many devices were active when the channel change occurred?
- Did any other devices besides the MacBook (which model) exhibit the channel
change behavior?
- What signal level was the MacBook seeing?

 

[riel_net]

Thanks for the info. I'll keep an eye on that during testing.

There is nothing inherently bad with using both low and high 5 GHz channels for client connection. But the frequent bouncing between channels is something they may need to tune. I have a few more questions if you don't mind:

- How often did the channel change? How long was it between channel changes?
- Are there many surrounding 5 GHz networks?
- How many devices were active when the channel change occurred?
- Did any other devices besides the MacBook (which model) exhibit the channel
change behavior?
- What signal level was the MacBook seeing?

Every time I open the lid on my laptop I noticed the channel change. The one night for 30-60 minutes the MacBook would change every few minutes. I also heard an audible noise coming out of the main unit when I was near by it to restart. Curious if you will notice this strange audible noise when you review it.

There is a lot of residential routers around my area that use high band 5GHz (Xfinity) so its pretty crowded but not really busy through a spectrum analyzer.

I have about 15 devices on wifi at any given time. No real way to see which devices are on which band except for the laptops and phones which I could check them.

Only my MacBook Air seem to keep flipping back and forth between low band 36 and high band 161 that I could identify. Its signal level was excellent around -20 to -30 dBm. So I was pretty close to it at the time it happen.

Keep up the good work. Been on a 3 month search for a replacement to my Asus RT-AC5300 so I read your site and forum almost every other day.

 

[thiggins]

Every time I open the lid on my laptop I noticed the channel change. The one night for 30-60 minutes the MacBook would change every few minutes.

Are these two different cases? When you close the lid, the MacBook sleeps, which disconnects Wi-Fi. When it connects to the network, Velop must be deciding it wants it connected differently.

If the second case is the MacBook was continuously connected and in use, like streaming Netflix?

In mesh systems it is expected that the system is going to manage clients and move them as needed in response to changing conditions. Not all clients behave the same as you are finding out.

 

[pete y testing]

Dong from Cnet has an opinion on the velop

https://www.cnet.com/videos/the-linksys-velop-is-not-as-fast-as-it-is-expensive/

again all comes down to the $$$

 

[sfx2000]

When you close the lid, the MacBook sleeps, which disconnects Wi-Fi. When it connects to the network, Velop must be deciding it wants it connected differently.

Actually, newer Mac's don't truely sleep by default - closing the lid on them puts them into a state Apple calls "power nap" - The WiFi is still active, and the OS, is still doing things - just at a much slower pace...

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204032

 

[sfx2000]

Mesh is going to jump around to find a better channel across all the nodes...

Some insight...

Basic scan algo... which is improved from the older 11b/g/n/a auto - which just used channel scans and CINR results - the below is more real-time - which means things are going to - jump around in a mesh...

(busy time - tx time) / (active time - tx time) * 2^(chan_nf - band_min_nf)

Blowing this out a bit, which actually makes more sense...

10^(chan_nf/5) + (busy time - tx time) / (active time - tx time) * 2^(10^(chan_nf/10) + 10^(band_min_nf/10))

Or something very similar to that...

 

[Pericynthion]

So I got my 3 node Velop installed today - after some failed attempts the initial setup went ok and adding nodes seems to be pretty straightforward. I'm running one node obviously to the Surfboard modem and then one using the wireless backhaul and then the other as a wired backhaul.

So far once you get beyond not knowing whether you're on 2.4 or 5Ghz the performance seems pretty consistent. It seems to steer all single antenna devices to 2.4Ghz which probably makes sense. I get some more weird client info as I have a 26 port Cisco switch running the Ethernet so I don't get any names resolved for those.

Otherwise it seems ok - I only have a couple of desktops with 3x3 and most of those are hardwired so the 2x2 seems to be good enough from initial testing for all the wireless devices.

I'm about to start messing with port forwarding so we'll see how the app deals with some more complex demands.

The app is ok but missing some key info such as what channel I'm running and which clients are connected to which nodes - but as long as it stays 'zero touch admin' I might be able to deal with those details...


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[gowg]

I got my 2-pack a week or so ago and my biggest complaint so far is that the ethernet backhaul feature is broken, and a tech on the phone said the devs knew about it. She volunteered this information immediately, which was nice. Also, I moved my switch to a different node and it broke Velop, causing me to reset the entire thing, which means that I had to manually do all the settings and setup again, no restore-from-cloud functionality. It took about an hour. The app is bad, also. It's buggy, missing many basic features, has many poorly implemented features, and it's ugly.

Maybe one of you can answer this: I understand that the node handoff/roaming thing is done by clients, not Velop. But can Velop control when clients switch radios on the same node?

 

[thiggins]

Ethernet backhaul is not broken, it's just currently not part of the app setup wizard.

Just set up Velop using wireless backaul. Then connect Velops via Ethernet.

Linksys says Velop currently does not band steer outside of providing 802.11k neighbor reports to the clients for them to make a more informed choice as to which AP they should connect to.