Mix Ruckus R730 with other Ruckus APs?

[ckc]

First of all, huge thanks to Trip, Tim, and all the folks providing help and advice over the years here. I have a question about mixing a Ruckus R730 with other Ruckus APs for a home network (3 story, ~3700sq ft)? Is it true that the R730 can't run the unleashed firmware, and needs a separate controller (if running with multiple APs)? So then will it not be a good idea to mix it with, say some R510's running unleashed? Home has plenty of hardwire drops so the APs can be placed in a multitude of locations. Wondering if it's overkill with the R730 and if I'm better off dumping it in favor for a bunch of smaller R510s or similar? Or just use the one R730 in a central location?

Any advice appreciated, thanks!

 

[L&LD]

Welcome to the forums @ckc. I'm sure @Trip, @coxhaus, and others will be here to help you soon.

 

[Trip]

Hi @ckc. You can mix and match any type and form factor of Ruckus AP, as long as they all support the desired controller version you want to run, be it Unleashed, ZoneFlex or Smart Zone. Certain APs fall so far out of support that they just can't run with current models (for example, a first-gen Ruckus R7000 series alongside a brand new R850, etc.), but as long as you're on an R_10 or higher series AP, for now at least, they'll be able to co-exist with every model up to and including the R_50 series, on at least some version of the firmware. For Unleashed, it will typically be 200.8 and 200.9, to support the _10, _20 and _30 models all at once).

As for hardware spec, I tend to find the 700 series are actually not the best fit for most residential setups, which usually call for APs with smaller/tighter broadcast spheres. The 730/720/710 are really meant to be sitting on the ceilings of amphitheaters, lecture halls, etc. -- places better suited for longer broadcast distance. Since you've got an R730, I would definitely test it versus one or two R510's. I suspect multiple R510's will perform better overall, but actually trying the hardware will let you know for sure.

Another thing to consider is power draw. The R720 and 730 require higher-power PoE (over 30W capability) in order to broadcast all radios at full strength and full spatial streams. The lower-power R500 and 600 series APs can all work at full power well within the confines of 802.3at PoE+, which means an easier time running all PoE from most access switches, without requiring either higher-power PoE injectors or 802.3bt switches.

All that considered, I'd probably err on the side of R5__ or R6__ series APs for your needs.

Let me know if I can help answer any other questions.

 

[ckc]

Hi @Trip thanks for your reply and insights, very much appreciated, you rock ! I'll give the 730 a test and see how it does (just waiting for a higher wattage POE injector to arrive), but you're probably right in that it might not be the right application for it.

Completely unrelated, I noticed that the R510 makes "computer noises" all the time (i.e. and we're not talking fan noise, it's faint beeps and constant ticking noises, it's not silent like any AP I've ever had previously), is that completely normal?

 

[Trip]

Yes, many of the APs do make a slight electrical "whine" when actively pushing data (similar to coil whine in laptops, albeit more subdued). Some models do it more so than others. It comes down to how the PCB's, capacitors and antenna matrices all interconnect, and as far as I've discovered there's nothing one can really do about it, other than simply design your placements such that the noise is minimized, if not altogether muffled. Hope that helps.

 

[rockinwruckus]

Hi @Trip I'll give the 730 a test and see how it does

Hi @ckc did you have any luck with the test? I found myself in a similar boat, been running an r720 on unleashed and nabbed an r730 on ebay without doing all my homework.

I havent tested yet as i'm still finishing the space where this r730 will live, but trying to decide if i pursue an ebay return (painful) or try to sell the r730 or just keep it and it will work fine. I really want the fast switching that a controller provides (if i understand things)

 

[coxhaus]

I have never heard any noises from the Cisco small business wireless APs.

If you run a Ruckus controller, do you have any licensing fees?

There are not a lot of small business switches which support POE++ power. I assume POE++ power but they even make higher levels.

 

[Trip]

Cisco's small business APs are good for the price (CBW is just recycled Aironet 1800 series running simplified Mobility Express), and they do run completely silent. But, while CBW is well-proven, the hardware is a bit long in the tooth and antenna tech is commodity, so it pales in comparison to Ruckus for certain applications. The MSRP difference is reflective of that, though, so both have their place (I install and appreciate both).

As for licensing, Unleashed is completely free to run and update. You only pay if you desire extra levels or longer terms of support and/or extended hardware replacement. Same licensing model as Cisco Aironet/Catalyst with Mobility Express. The pay-per-AP model only comes into play with the discrete physical or virtual controllers (ZoneFlex, SmartZone and virtual SmartZone -- vSZ), again same as Aironet/Catalyst when a running a WLC setup. Also, you get a certain number of AP licenses included with each ZoneFlex ZoneDirector, for example 5 APs with a ZD1200. For the vast majority of home setups, though, Unleashed will be all that's ever needed and by far the best bang for the buck.

Regarding high-power PoE, indeed, true full-wattage 802.3bt is still mostly found only in core or distribution class enterprise switches, albeit a sub-group of 30-60 watt PoE++ is starting to creep into certain cheaper access switches. For example, Netgear has the GS110TUP. I'm sure Cisco will have something equivalent soon enough.

 

[coxhaus]

I was referencing the Ruckus 730 wireless AP. Since there is no unleased for the 730 and you need to run a controller from what I gathered above the 730 will require a licensing fee using the controller.

 

[Trip]

I was referencing the Ruckus 730 wireless AP. Since there is no unleased for the 730 and you need to run a controller from what I gathered above the 730 will require a licensing fee using the controller.

For the R730, yes, but if you have a hardware controller (example: ZD1200) and five or fewer APs (typically enough for most households), then it's just the cost of the controller itself, no additional per-AP license required.

 

[coxhaus]

Not sure about prices but the controller looks like with 5 APs it is around $750 for the controller.

 

[rockinwruckus]

Ebay has used ones in the $200 range, i'd probably just rather buy another used R710 or R720 for the same price and stick with unleashed.