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MOCA noob needs advice

Discussion in 'MoCA, HomePlug, HPNA' started by rs1987, Feb 20, 2020.

  1. rs1987

    rs1987 Occasional Visitor

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    Feb 20, 2020
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    Hi all

    While I'm pretty technical in all other areas, I've never used a cable ISP before, let alone MOCA. My new place has an awkward layout and is also too large for a single router. My ISP cable comes in under the stairwell where the coax connections for all the rooms in the house terminate in an 8-way splitter box.

    All my computing equipment is in the office downstairs at the front of the house, which is across the hallway from the stairwell and there is no wireless coverage upstairs at the back of the house or on the back terrace, so I'd love to put a router upstairs.

    I have no way of running ethernet backhaul, so I'm looking at MOCA as a solution.

    I plan on disconnecting the 8-way box and putting in a 2 way MOCA compatible splitter. However, I'm unsure if the topology I have planned is valid, due to the lack of experience with MOCA/coax.

    The diagram below shows what I think is the correct setup (the right of the diagram has images of the connectors on the MOCA adapter and the cable modem so you can check that the wiring on the diagram is valid).

    I'd very much appreciate if someone with more smarts than me on this could take a look a let me know if this setup will work. I'd hate to go out and spend close to $200 on these MOCA adapters only to find out that this setup won't work.

    Thanks in advance

    moca.jpg
     
  2. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    Nope.
    For your local network, you need to get to the ISP modem first from outside. That establishes your interney service. Then you use MOCA modems to extend the ethernet across the in house cable.

    One coax connector on the motorola modem is for tv pass through and one for moca in.
     
  3. rs1987

    rs1987 Occasional Visitor

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    I'm not sure I understand what you mean about the ISP modem?

    I currently have an existing cable modem supplied by the ISP under the stairwell, connected directly to the red cable on the diagram. I'm running an Ethernet cable from the modem across the hallway to my router in the office, which in turn is patched into my switch.

    I want to move this modem to the office so I don't have to run the Ethernet cable over the hallway. That part is simple as the office has coax and I can just connect up the incoming ISP coax directly to the coax that goes to the office.

    The thing I'm not sure about is how I get the upstairs onto the MOCA network: its coax terminates under the stairwell.

    My modem isn't a motorola cable modem - I just used a photo of one for illustrating the wiring. It's actually a virgin media hub 3.0 running in modem mode.

    I do, however, plan to use the Motorola MOCA adapters as that's all that's available in London, UK.

    I don't use TV services over the cable connection.

    Does that extra detail change your answer in any way?
     
  4. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    first off, you will need to confirm with Virgin that their cable input operating frequencies are compatible with MOCA 2.0 - e.g. they don't use the same frequency bands.

    The "device" port on the MM1000 and other moca 2 devices only passes the lower frequency bands ( usually below around 1000 MHz). It does not pass the MOCA frequency bands.

    If yes, then all you need to do is place a POE moca blocking device at the input tap to the 2 way moca2 compatible splitter to prevent your moca signal from going out on Virgin's network.

    If there is overlap, you may be able to set the bands used in the MM devices to the upper levels (band D or E i think). Otherwise, you will have to have separate coax from the Virgin feed directly to the modem, then use another coax to tie the MM1000 devices from the Virgin modem to your router. you will still need the POE block to prevent your moca signal from getting on Virgin's network.
     
  5. rs1987

    rs1987 Occasional Visitor

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    Thanks @degrub

    The cable frequencies appear compatible. My modem shows that the frequencies in use go up to ~475Mhz in band 24. According to the MM1000 specification sheet, it uses " MoCA Ext Band D operation: 1125 - 1675 MHz", so there's no overlap.

    Therefore, given that I put the POE blocking device at the input tap on my diagram, it should work as I've drawn it, right?


    upload_2020-2-22_15-33-26.png
     
  6. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    It appears to match the layout diagram in the Motorola user manuals for CATV modems.
    https://assets.ctfassets.net/0dyo76...690b1bccbf4beeb9c2aaa61e00827/MoCA_UG_NEW.pdf


    The only other question is if the cables are good enough for the higher frequency of MOCA2.

    You should have RG-6 cables in the wall to support MOCA2. you should be able to go to the large splitter and look on one of the cable runs to one of your rooms. It should have embossed or painted RG6 on it. If it has RG59, the MOCA2 signal may not work well and may be downgraded to moca 1.1 which is below 1000MHz but above your cable frequencies. It also severely limits the speed.

    Make sure the splitter you get specifically states MOCA2 rated.

    You will have to just try the pair on MM1000s on each leg to verify. Some things that can cause issues are poor terminations of the cable, physical damage in the run, unknown splitters (catv not moca2 rated), rg59 instead of rg6.

    Best case is if you can return them if they do not work out.
     
  7. rs1987

    rs1987 Occasional Visitor

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    Just had a look at the cabling and I can't tell what type it is. The only thing printed on the cable is "75 ohm low loss coax TV downlead"....I guess I'll just have to try and see what happens. Thanks for all your advice.
     
  8. degrub

    degrub Very Senior Member

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    try posting a clear close up pic of the cables. Usually the embossed type is every few feet, so it may not be visible on the ones you looked at. Sometimes the embossing is very light and you need to get good lighting to see it.
    you may be able to remove one of the wall plates and see the cable from there at the other end..
     
  9. rs1987

    rs1987 Occasional Visitor

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    According to this web page the easiest way to identify the cable type is by the cable diameter. RG-59 is 6.15mm. My micrometer says my cable is precisely 6.15mm, which means unfortunately that it is RG-59.
     
  10. Booboo22

    Booboo22 Occasional Visitor

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    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Unless the cable lengths are exceptionally long for a home, or the RG-59 is damaged, it should work with MoCA 2.0. Even non-MoCA 2.0 splitters tend to work just fine, the technology is very forgiving. I would concentrate to ensure the frequency bands are not overlapping with your cable modem and ensuring the cable is healthy, splitters are decent quality and unused F-ports on the splitters are terminated.