Netgear just made me really appreciate Asus and Merlin

[drinkingbird]

Mom's old Cisco/Linksys single band N router died, needed a new one while I was up visiting today. Closest thing was Walmart and they had a decent spec Netgear AC1200 on clearance for $28 or so. 100M ports and 150M/866M wifi are plenty for her needs. New linksys is garbage, and they had a TP Link for $30, but figured the Netgear being like 60% off, get the better one for a couple bucks less.

Not only do they attempt to force you to create a Netgear account to change any settings on the router at all (I bypassed it by unplugging the WAN every time it tried, which causes it to let you click "try again later", but it tries again every time you log in and even while you're logged in). Their GUI is awful. You can't choose 20Mhz channel in 2.4Ghz settings, instead you have to know the difference between "Up to 145mbit" and "up to 300mbit" options. It defaults to 300mbit (40mhz as it is a 2 stream). It does have "40/20mhz coexistence" enabled by default which claims to only use 40mhz if the spectrum is available, but given how many netgears I've seen on scans running 40mhz, I doubt it works well. Various other annoyances throughout the gui, slow and hard to navigate too.

Hey it is working for what I needed and it was cheap, but man I would never buy one of those for myself, and had I known, I would have gotten the TP Link next to it for a couple dollars more. TP's GUI is crude but it does not force you to set up an account with tons of required personal info just to administer the router, and generally the settings are straightforward and don't require you to translate "friendly" settings to actual technical info. I've found them to not be the most reliable or highest performing brand in the past, but they seem to have gotten better. I just regarded the Netgear name as higher quality having used them way in the past and knowing their stuff generally scores very well in performance testing. But that whole "provide us all your personal info just to change the SSID" garbage does not fly with me. HP tries to do it with their latest printers if you want to enable scanning. MS tries to make you think you have no option when installing Windows (have to unplug the network cable to get the option to use a local account now). I do not like this trend.

Sure I could set up an account using all bogus info and a burner email address but that's not the point.

The Asus stock and Merlin setups are far superior to both, actually shocking how crude the netgear looks by comparison and the lack of options and settings. The GUI looks the same as it did 20 years ago. I guess they are hoping you'll download and install their app, so they can gather even more info about you (it prompts you constantly for that too).

Just mind boggling, Netgear, a company founded to produce consumer networking gear and continues to focus exclusively on that today, selling stuff that is far inferior to Asus, who primarily is a PC maker that branched off and did some networking stuff.

 

[tgl]

Not only do they attempt to force you to create a Netgear account to change any settings on the router at all (I bypassed it by unplugging the WAN every time it tried, which causes it to let you click "try again later", but it tries again every time you log in and even while you're logged in).

I hear you. With the Orbis I bought last year, I eventually figured out how to bypass all that, but they don't make it easy. (From my notes: hard-reset the router, connect to its admin webpage using a browser, click "I don't have a compatible smartphone", and then proceed to set up as desired. But maybe your AC1200 is different.)

Their GUI is awful. You can't choose 20Mhz channel in 2.4Ghz settings, instead you have to know the difference between "Up to 145mbit" and "up to 300mbit" options.

Yup, that's why my Orbis are gathering dust on a shelf. The default configuration is utterly ridiculous if you know what you are doing and don't want to be ungracious to your neighbors ... but if you don't know plenty already, you'll never figure that out from their GUI, and even if you do it's not very configurable compared to other APs I've used. I don't hold the straight-out-of-the-90s GUI look against them, but I do object to the way that even the most minor configuration change requires a full reboot that takes several minutes.

(Well, actually, that set of problems isn't what drove me to retire the Orbis. What broke the camel's back is the forced firmware update that bricked the main node last December, requiring a hard reset and reconfigure to recover. They don't make it possible to disable automatic firmware updates.)

I'm not likely to buy any more Netgear wifi gear either. Anybody want RBK850 3-pack cheap?

 

[drinkingbird]

I hear you. With the Orbis I bought last year, I eventually figured out how to bypass all that, but they don't make it easy. (From my notes: hard-reset the router, connect to its admin webpage using a browser, click "I don't have a compatible smartphone", and then proceed to set up as desired. But maybe your AC1200 is different.)

That only bypasses the app install, then it still asks you to create an account to access the web GUI. There used to be bypasses like visiting specific URLs to reach the setup pages but they've closed those now (had to do some googling on it today). Basically unplugging the WAN at various times is the only way to get around it and in this case that was fine, sort of a set it and forget it setup, but in most cases that is not practical.

Yup, that's why my Orbis are gathering dust on a shelf. The default configuration is utterly ridiculous if you know what you are doing and don't want to be ungracious to your neighbors ... but if you don't know plenty already, you'll never figure that out from their GUI, and even if you do it's not very configurable compared to other APs I've used. I don't hold the straight-out-of-the-90s GUI look against them, but I do object to the way that even the most minor configuration change requires a full reboot that takes several minutes.

(Well, actually, that set of problems isn't what drove me to retire the Orbis. What broke the camel's back is the forced firmware update that bricked the main node last December, requiring a hard reset and reconfigure to recover. They don't make it possible to disable automatic firmware updates.)

I'm not likely to buy any more Netgear wifi gear either. Anybody want RBK850 3-pack cheap?

Ah another page out of MS's playbook. We know what is best for you and you will update when we say you will.... This AC1200 does allow you to disable automatic updates at least.

 

[bbunge]

I was given an Orbi RBK50 pair. Thought it would be good to replace the AC66U_B1. Even with Voxel firmware I tired of Netgear quickly and gave it away.

 

[L&LD]

I spend less than 5 minutes trying to get an existing router (i.e. brands above) working for a new customer. I then tell them if they want a stable and reliable system that I can help set up for them, they need new hardware. Asus is the only choice today for a reason. Many, many reasons actually.

The stories above are just one aspect of the mentality of the captains whose ships are going down to try to right the ship (they're just pouring more water in quicker, IMO).

Netgear was my first 'real' router a decade ago and it far surpassed the molasses-filled Apple Extreme I was using then. Switching to the RT-N66U/RMerlin-powered router was like an unbelievable breath of fresh air.

The only thing that's changed since then is that Asus' competition has only gotten worse. And I don't see them veering course until they dive right into the ground, full speed.

 

[RMinNJ]

I think the only use of the account they force you to create is the product registration...this so they can charge for support when you have a question or issue in 90 days.

I briefly checked out the NG community AX forums...most active thread is on the RAX120...over 500 posts long on the 5GHz or router crashing and they just released a beta firmware to fix it..to some folks that are within 90days of purchase...all others having the issue are ignored.

 

[Tech9]

You can't expect much from lowest cost routers. They are all as basic as possible, but some serve the purpose well. I have E5400 routers for $35 and they work very well. Using them as wireless bridges - option available in firmware. I have also installed Deco M4 2-pack set for $100 to a friend of mine place and it's working very well. Archer C80 is excellent range Gigabit router for $50. Archer C6 V3 is about $35 and also Gigabit. I saw new AC68Us on sale for $74 equivalent in Canada - perhaps the best budget router choice even though there won't be many firmware updates from now on.

 

[drinkingbird]

I think the only use of the account they force you to create is the product registration...this so they can charge for support when you have a question or issue in 90 days.

I briefly checked out the NG community AX forums...most active thread is on the RAX120...over 500 posts long on the 5GHz or router crashing and they just released a beta firmware to fix it..to some folks that are within 90days of purchase...all others having the issue are ignored.

You really think a company is forcing you to set up an account and keep that account signed in on your internet router where all your online habits pass through just to register the unit? Product registration for warranty requires none of that.

At least Asus/trend micro disclose that they are gathering some marketing info and you can stay completely anonymous with no account link or personal info needed.

 

[drinkingbird]

You can't expect much from lowest cost routers. They are all as basic as possible, but some serve the purpose well. I have E5400 routers for $35 and they work very well. Using them as wireless bridges - option available in firmware. I have also installed Deco M4 2-pack set for $100 to a friend of mine place and it's working very well. Archer C80 is excellent range Gigabit router for $50. Archer C6 V3 is about $35 and also Gigabit. I saw new AC68Us on sale for $74 equivalent in Canada - perhaps the best budget router choice even though there won't be many firmware updates from now on.

Not expecting super performance, the performance is fine for the price (technically it was a $70 router so not exactly low cost). The issue is I should be able to expect that they won't farm my data. If they want to do that, give it to me for free. Even their highest end most expensive routers require an account from what I read, so it is isn't like they're subsidizing the price of the low end routers with data mining revenue.

I've seen 2 of the Belkin Linksys routers die for no reason in under a year, won't even consider them (there was one on clearance for the same price). I did set my neighbors up with an Archer C90 (same as the Amazon specific A9) and it is fine, but the coverage and throughput is not as good as the Asus and the GUI and options are lacking. But for the price, it is perfect, and no account or data harvesting required. Will see how long it lasts, its been going for a year now. That one was $40 from newegg a year ago.

Unfortunately needing something right away and all the B&M stores having basically the same offerings, options were somewhat limited. Most of what they have are AX routers well over $100.

 

[jerry6]

I stoped using Netgear and linkless 12 years ago after buying new routers that had no updated FW after 6 months , they dropped updating because they had a new model and no longer supported a router that was 6 months old , never again . been using Asus Merlin since , never had a problem since . no more crashes or bricked routers

 

[drinkingbird]

I stoped using Netgear and linkless 12 years ago after buying new routers that had no updated FW after 6 months , they dropped updating because they had a new model and no longer supported a router that was 6 months old , never again . been using Asus Merlin since , never had a problem since . no more crashes or bricked routers

LOL @ Linkless, haven't heard that one in a long time, but it is once again accurate.

Have never been a big Netgear user (actually have never used any of their stuff in my own house) but have set plenty of them up for other people. The firmware always looked crude but the necessary settings were there and none of this "App" or "Account" BS. I did notice on my neighbors little wifi extender a couple years ago, it asked you to create an account but let you skip it. I'm assuming by now it has updated its firmware and made it required.

Linksys has gone back and forth. In the beginning, they were ok but hit or miss and had a lot of bugs. Then the infamous WRT-54G came out, and I got the one that let you run 3rd party firmware (the GL I think) and ran that for years with DD-WRT and was rock solid, with lots of options in the 3rd party firmware.

Then Cisco bought them and they were decent, nothing special but stable and reliable. This one that died on me was a Cisco one and lasted over 10 years, and has been on a simulated sine wave UPS for many hours during many power outages in NH (those UPSes aren't great and will eventually kill stuff). Now that Belkin owns them, they're back in the toilet, a lot of them die within the first year and getting a warranty replacement is not worth the hassle just to end up with a dirty, scratched up refurb that may or may not work. Went through it with a couple friends and just said, it isn't worth it, buy a new one.

Another friend has a Cisco one that's been going probably close to 10 years, it hasn't been rebooted except for the occasional power outage and just sits there and does what it is supposed to. I think it is an N300 one, not even sure if it is dual band, probably not.

 

[sfx2000]

Closest thing was Walmart and they had a decent spec Netgear AC1200 on clearance for $28 or so. 100M ports and 150M/866M wifi are plenty for her needs. New linksys is garbage, and they had a TP Link for $30, but figured the Netgear being like 60% off, get the better one for a couple bucks less.

All depends on which device you buy - the netgear R6220 is fully supported by OpenWRT with a modern kernel, Cake SQM, decent WiFi drivers... install is a bit fiddly, but worth the effort.

Yes, you can use wireguard on it

The $30 TP-Link - better than one would guess - their firmware actually isn't that bad - if it was the TR-841N, they're prettty good for the price... (don't pay more that $32USD)

 

[Tech9]

TR-841N

This one is a dinosaur. Archer C80 with MediaTek SoC AC Wave 2 and Gigabit ports is $50. Similar to Asus RT-AC65P hardware.

 

[sfx2000]

This one is a dinosaur. Archer C80 with MediaTek SoC AC Wave 2 and Gigabit ports is $50. Similar to Asus RT-AC65P hardware.

Believe it or not - they're still updating firmware on it...

TL-WR841N(US)_V14.8_220816	Download
Published Date: 2022-11-23

 

[Tech9]

Impressive. Hardware revision V14.80... this model will never die.

 

[sfx2000]

Impressive. Hardware revision V14.80... this model will never die.

NRE is basically done - they've cost reduced this device, and chips are still readily available.

Likely someone with some 'juice' that was involved early on and finding a way to keep it going...

The longer it runs, the better the numbers look for cost of goods shipped..

 

[drinkingbird]

All depends on which device you buy - the netgear R6220 is fully supported by OpenWRT with a modern kernel, Cake SQM, decent WiFi drivers... install is a bit fiddly, but worth the effort.

Yes, you can use wireguard on it

The $30 TP-Link - better than one would guess - their firmware actually isn't that bad - if it was the TR-841N, they're prettty good for the price... (don't pay more that $32USD)

It was the C54, don't know anything about that one.

Just needed something quick and simple and inexpensive at B&M. The Netgear seemed like a good choice, ended up being a PITA.

 

[Tech9]

What model Netgear?

 

[lindros2]

Mom's old Cisco/Linksys single band N router died, needed a new one while I was up visiting today. Closest thing was Walmart and they had a decent spec Netgear AC1200 on clearance for $28 or so. 100M ports and 150M/866M wifi are plenty for her needs. New linksys is garbage, and they had a TP Link for $30, but figured the Netgear being like 60% off, get the better one for a couple bucks less.
[edited]
Just mind boggling, Netgear, a company founded to produce consumer networking gear and continues to focus exclusively on that today, selling stuff that is far inferior to Asus, who primarily is a PC maker that branched off and did some networking stuff.

I had this same experience at my parent's house two years ago.
Got a Netgear at Costco; knew it was going to go poorly when the rubber feet weren't even (it wobbled back and forth) and my fingerprints appeared immediately on the cheap plastic finish.

In that case, I went with Google Nest WiFi (sacrilege, I know), which has worked okay.

 

[drinkingbird]

What model Netgear?

R6120