NetMeter graph looks like a pulse train... is this normal?

[Jdragon]

New here... just bough the WNDR3700, first venture into wireless n. Was having some problems with wildly varying transfer speeds, and I never get above 6Mbps peak, so I downloaded NetMeter. I have been trying to diagnose for the last 2 weeks, but now I am wondering what a "normal" netmeter graph looks like for wireless... not the same for wired, no pulse train or problems copying huge files quickly.

see attached screenshot... it happens regardless of the # bars signal strength or throughput on the windows screen (yes, I read from the "5 ways to fix..." that these are worthless, but though I'd throw that in anyway).

Any help is much appreciated... logged many hours trying to figure this out and changed many settings... all to max performance, max power etc.

 

[Jdragon]

additional notes

I should also note that the screenshot is for a single file transfer (2 GB+). PC is a 1.8GHz machine with 2GB RAM and a 250GB HDD... and as I mentioned, the transfer works fine on Gigabit ethernet, so I don't think the PC is the issue (nor the WHS that is transferring the file.

The WHS is wired through Gigabit to the router and the link to the PC (where the screenshot was taken) is the wireless n link (5Ghz or 2.4Ghz, tried both, no difference)... also tried changing fragmentation, jumbo frames, almost every setting in the NICs and wireless card (dell 1520 dual band).

 

[Jdragon]

more notes

sorry if I am over-posting already, but I want everyone to have as much info as possible. the RED part of the screenshot actually shows MULTIPLE attempts to download a single large file -- the LONG blank spots are where I stopped the transfer. If left unstopped, it will look like the green transfer, regular intervals of 5 seconds transferring, 4-5 seconds at near zero transfer speed.

 

[thiggins]

No, that's not normal.

By any chance do you have the machine connected with both wireless and wired connection while you're doing the test? If so, disconnect / shut off the one you're not using while testing the other.

Also make sure that NetMeter is set to look at only the Network interface you're trying to test.

What link rate are you seeing for the wireless adapter? Is it changing? Can you see the client lose its connection? Do you have many neighboring networks? Are you using cordless phones / baby monitors or other sources of interference?

How far apart is the client from the WNDR3700? What wireless security are you using?

Go back and reset the router and card to defaults and disable jumbo frames on any NICs involved in the test. I'd also check for driver updates for the Dell adapter.

 

[Jdragon]

answers...

Thanks, see responses below... I am willing to try anything!

No, that's not normal.

By any chance do you have the machine connected with both wireless and wired connection while you're doing the test? If so, disconnect / shut off the one you're not using while testing the other. (I DID HAVE THE GIG NIC CONNECTED TO AN HDHOMERUN, BUT DISCONNECTED, NO CHANGE)

Also make sure that NetMeter is set to look at only the Network interface you're trying to test. (Yes, confirmed)

What link rate are you seeing for the wireless adapter? 162-243Mbps

Is it changing? yes, but no direct correlation to transfer rate

Can you see the client lose its connection? Does not lose connection, to my knowledge... the "zero speed" durations are only 4-5 seconds (Netmeter, not "Windows wireless connection status", always between 162 and 234 in that status box)

Do you have many neighboring networks? I have only one house nearby (<20 feet, the rest are several hundred feet away, only 1 "strong" signal from another network -- I tried changing channels to no avail)

Are you using cordless phones / baby monitors or other sources of interference? Baby monitor, but turned it off, no change, no cordless phones or anything else using the 2.4Ghz or 5Ghz band.

How far apart is the client from the WNDR3700? <30 feet
What wireless security are you using? WPA2-PSK [AES]

Go back and reset the router and card to defaults and disable jumbo frames on any NICs involved in the test. I'd also check for driver updates for the Dell adapter. Done. No change, no driver updates available "already have the latest"

 

[thiggins]

Try a continuous ping for awhile i.e. ping ipaddress -t and see if you're getting ping timeouts.

Do you have any other clients that you can try this with?

What were you using for a wireless router before and does it work ok if you go back to it?

There is the possibility you have a bad router.

 

[thiggins]

I would also disconnect everything from your wired network except one client.

 

[Jdragon]

other client

I didn't get a chance to try pinging from the client that was having trouble (will do later tonight), however, I took your advice and tried the large transfers from to different client (laptop client).

The laptop client is only a wireless G (NetMeter shot attached) no dropouts and reasonable throughput for wireless G.

Also, in case you were wondering, the dropouts on the wireless n client happen even if there is nothing connected on the other band (eliminating mixed mode clients), as I read in "5 ways..." post. My previous post/attachment was done with NO other clients attached at the time and the router was configured for "up to 300Mbps".

The old router I have went bad... can't go back to it and I never ran NetMeter on it before. However, this most recent test you had me run makes me think something may be wrong with my dell wireless n card (either setting or hardware)... will try the continuous ping and get back to you tonight.

 

[thiggins]

Sure does look like a client issue.

Try disabling, enabling the wireless adapter via Windows device manager.
Also delete the wireless connection completely (Manage Wireless Networks), scan, then reconnect. Something could be hosed in the stored properties for the wireless connection.

 

[Jdragon]

blew away all network connections... blew away the 1520 card, drivers, etc. then re-installed fresh.

then I did the continuous ping (no file transfer) and didn't get any timeouts, most were <3ms, but for about every 10-15 good pings, I got 3-5 with response times of 100-200ms...

then I ran it with a large file and still got no timeouts, but same ping timing, and the long duration pings corresponded with the very low xfer rate (valleys).

so, it looks like my connection is repetitively dropping to a very low speed every 10 seconds... like clockwork.

thoughts?

 

[thiggins]

Those long ping times could be any number of things, i.e. high packet loss, the client or AP running a scan or tuning routine. But it seems like there is something in the client and AP that is not meshing well.

Can you force the client to G mode?

 

[Jdragon]

If I force to G mode (by disabling 802.11a through the adapter settings), no drop outs!!! Though I have no idea what this means, I am definitely dumbfounded. you have not yet ceased to amaze me...

Waiting with bated breath to hear what you think this means.

 

[thiggins]

Disabling A would not necessarily put you in G mode. It should just disable 5 GHz band operation. If you're connecting at 54 Mbps link rate, then you are in G. Anything higher, you're connecting in N.

If just shutting off the 5 GHz band did the trick, there must have been some network search scan kicking in periodically. Sounds like a buggy or incompatible (with the WNDR3700's Atheros chipset) driver to me.

 

[Jdragon]

Definitely not connecting at anything higher than 54Mbps... I have the setting for the 2.4GHz network limited (in the router) to 54Mbps. If this doesn't force G, how do I force G?

...will surf the net for any news on driver compatibility.

 

[thiggins]

Definitely not connecting at anything higher than 54Mbps... I have the setting for the 2.4GHz network limited (in the router) to 54Mbps. If this doesn't force G, how do I force G?

The router setting is what is limiting you.

Try setting the router to N/G mode, 20 MHz bandwidth and leave the client setting as is. See how that does.

 

[Jdragon]

Changed the router setting to 300Mbps... and the client in question went up to 130-162Mbps with no drop outs, so, of course you were correct, I was not forcing G, my mistake.

Mid-term conclusion: either the 5Ghz band on the client card isn't setup/working correctly or the router 5Ghz isn't setup/working correctly. The 2.4Ghz band is working fine for the router in G and N.

It seems like if I turn ON the 5Ghz band at the client card, everything bombs out and starts the pulse train pattern again (on the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz band, even if I'm not "using" the 5Ghz band)... but 5Ghz band "disabled" for the client card, no problem...

I also changed the "scan" settings on the card to "every 3 minutes", and it seemed to help (via video playback), but not much per NetMeter -- still showed serious pulse train.

 

[thiggins]

If you want to experiment more, see what happens if you leave both radios on in the router, but force the client to 5 GHz band only (if you can). Then enable both band support on the client, but shut off the 2.4 GHz radio in the router.

 

[Jdragon]

So here's the messed up results:
First suggestion, no dice.
Second suggestion, no dice.
BUT, I decided to continue the line of thought and DISABLED the 5GHz router radio, ran it with the client 802.11a band setting disabled, no problem, worked fine at 2.4Ghz. Now, without changing anything else, I turned ON the 802.11a setting and the pulse train came back... even with no 5GHz radio broadcasting.

 

[thiggins]

That really doesn't make much sense. Since 11a relates to the 5 GHz radio only. Are you sure that when you enabled the 11a mode, that it didn't enable the 5 GHz radio?

 

[Jdragon]

The client shouldn't have any capability to enable the router 5GHz radio... I must be misunderstanding - maybe I didn't state clearly... see below.

Scenario 1 -
WDNR 3700 Router:
5GHz radio "on" setting, unchecked the check box, APPLIED, router restart.
DW1520 Client:
Verified that my 5GHz SSID is not available via network scan.
Adapter properties -> advanced
Disable Bands -> 802.11a
Client card resets connection to apply settings, no pulse train in 2.4Ghz throughput

Scenario 2 - pulse train in 2.4Ghz throughput
WDNR 3700 Router:
5GHz radio "on" setting checkbox still unchecked
DW1520 Client:
Verified that my 5GHz SSID is not available via network scan.
Adapter properties -> advanced
Disable Bands -> NONE
Client card resets connection to apply settings, pulse train in 2.4Ghz throughput.

So my interpretation: enabling the 802.11a band on the client card (regardless if the router radio for 5GHz band is off) screws up communications to the client PC in 2.4Ghz band (and assuming any band)... which makes absolutely no sense to me. Why would turning on the client 802.11a setting screw up communications in 2.4Ghz when there is nothing being broadcast on the 5Ghz band (and I checked the congestion on all the channels for 2.4Ghz & 5GHz, virtually nothing, very very low levels of congestion, except for on MY channel of 2.4Ghz, which is expected since only when transferring the large file, otherwise, low congestion)? I decided to do a system backup and restore everything to factory settings (just to be sure I didn't muff up a setting) -- after 1 hour -- same exact operation.