New Router/AP to pair with 2013 Retina MBP

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

Hello, friends,
I just ordered a new MacBook Pro, which will, excitingly, come with 802.11ac support. However, Apple's documentation appears a bit sparse to me -- does it support AC1200? AC1300? Etc.

All that said, I'm thinking about replacing my 3 or 4 year old Linksys WRT400N with an 802.11ac router. The old router is crashing when I put it under a heavy load now and I'd like to get something that will offer me faster connectivity. Ideally, I would like to go with whatever router will offer at least the maximum connectivity possible out of Apple's 802.11ac implementation in the rMBP. I've always been happy with Linksys routers, but it seems like the newer ones are getting dinged for more reliability issues. The D-Link 868-L looks like a nice option, but I'm not sure -- is it overkill for what my new Mac will support?

I have a NAS capable of pushing 80-90MBps over a GigE connection, so my goal is to get as much throughput out of my wireless as possible. Needless to say, I don't really care about the routers file sharing capabilities, etc.

Thanks for your help!

Best,
Tim

 

[thiggins]

Ifixit tear downs show a 3x3 Broadcom 11abgnac radio. So an AC1750 router would be what you want to take full advantage. Remember you get the 1300 Mbps link rate only in 5 GHz.

Don't spend a lot and don't get an AC1900 router. And get one based in Broadcom, not QCA silicon.

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

OK. Thanks, Tim -- that helps! So, I'm a little dense on the different AC ratings -- I guess I've been out of the loop since I haven't had any AC equipment. Can one device like the one in the rMBP connect at both and grab the full 1750 by connecting at both frequencies (I'm guessing not, but I was curious...)?

I'm guessing then that you'd say AC1750 routers such as the DIR-868L that are within striking distance of the AC1900 ones are too expensive? I see an ASUS on your list that is ranked well, although I've also read a lot of complaints about ASUS reliability. Then again, perhaps that is because people review products when they are on the fritz...

Are there any you'd recommend for this sort of application that have a good, reliable firmware?

Thanks again!

 

[thiggins]

First you might want to readhttp://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...sification-system-for-wi-fi-products-revised-

And
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-basics/32175-how-fast-can-your-wi-fi-go

No client can connect on both bands simultaneously.

It is still early days for 11ac. Vendors, especially ASUS, are working out kinks in hardware and drivers. So don't expect smooth sailing. I am starting to test AC adapters and seeing low 2.4GHz uplink throughput with different product combinations.

If your main concern is getting the most from your Mac book, then get a new AirPort Extreme. At least that way, when you have problems, you won't get as much of a run-around from apple support.

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

Thanks, Tim. Those articles are fantastic -- I was suspecting the things they said just from trying to reason out the AC-related terminology, but I hadn't found a good set of tables that just laid it out (I had tried looking on your site, but hadn't bumped into it). So, if the rMBP is an AC1750 client, this should be great.

Do you have a non-Apple brand router you've found more stable (or the manufacturers are easier to work with, if there are problems)? I've thought about the AirPort Extreme, but your review seemed to indicate that it had rather disappointing throughput compared to some of the others. I'm perfectly comfortable working with a more complex router, so that's why I was looking at the other options. Ideally, I would like one that I can put a strain on without crashing through. (For example, my WRT400N crashes if I do a Time Machine backup wirelessly to my FreeNAS device.)

My goal is to have something that ideally isn't a huge pain, but my biggest goal in upgrading is getting something as fast as possible, where I can transfer gigabytes worth of files as rapidly as possible wirelessly (hopefully reducing the number of times I need to go plug in to GigE -- I did order a Lightning to GigE adapter, but don't want to have to use it more than necessary).

One more dumb question if I may: when I look at your charts, the AC1900 routers seem to get better 5GHz throughput than the AC1750 routers, despite the same theoretical 1300Mbps speed on the 5GHz band. Does that benefit still only show up for those with an AC1900 client, even though AC1750 and AC1900 have the same 1300Mbps theoretical speed at 5GHz? Or would any device capable of 1300Mbps on the 5GHz band be able to reap the better 5GHz performance? For example, the Linksys EA6900, which appears to be the fastest router on that particular chart gets 260.9Mbps downlink whereas the fastest Broadcom AC1750 router is only 201.5Mbps on the same test.

I'm presuming it must have something to do with newer firmware or faster processors in the routers, but I'm not sure. Are there any AC1750 devices on the horizon that provide the same 5GHz speed as the AC1900 devices but ignore the theoretical 2.4GHz advantages that won't do me any good?

Thanks!

 

[thiggins]

I have no recommendations beyond what I already have given.

The improved 5GHz throughput is in the router itself. Since the same Broadcom radio is used, I suspect the higher performance is from the RF design and possibly better drivers baked into the firmware.

I tested with the same AC1750 class adapter.

Read this about AC1900
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/32238-ac1900-innovation-or-3d-wi-fi

 

[tho3hite]

New Airport Extreme 802.11ac disapoints

Like the OP I'm also a new MBP owner looking for a fast wireless connection to my NAS. I'm upgrading from a 5+ year old DIR-655 that has started having intermittent problems in the last few months. (Do routers actually wear out?)

I bought the new Airport Extreme thinking (like Tim suggested below) that it would be a no hassle option for my new laptop. What I found is that I had good connect speeds at my desk but by the time I moved a room or two away in the house I was down to <200Mbs speeds. Barely faster than my old D-Link.

Since the 5GHz signal falls of faster than 2.4GHz and the connection speed is so dependent on the signal strength it seems like the fastest router in real world use will the the one with the best connection.

I'm looking to replace the Airport Extreme with a router that uses external antennas, either an RT-AC66U or Netgear R7000. The current price difference is about $15. The Asus has the attractive feature that it seems to have several options for firmware including the Asuswrt-Merlin variant that emphasizes stability over features.

I'm not sure if I wouldn't get as good a result from a N900 router if I had great reception. It sure would save on cost.

 

[thiggins]

If you have an AC client, you will get a throughput benefit from an AC router. As you found out, the benefit of AC fades very quickly with distance. Look at this comparison between ASUS N900, AC1200 and AC1750 products to get an idea
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/lanw...rk-knight/1140-asus-rtac66u/1226-asus-rtac56u

Given the rate of change for AC products, I do not recommend buying any if the $200 routers. AC1900 isn't fully baked yet, clients don't support the 2.4 GHz 600 Mbps link rate and ASUS firmware is still a work in progress.

And MU-MIMO products will probably start flying at us early next year.

$100 is enough to spend to experiment with AC.

 

[canuckle]

While I won't comment on AC in general, I can tell you I'm returning my new AirPort Extreme. Drastic throughput drop as you move away...and I'm an apple fan, we are 100 percent apple at home (except for Synology NAS). Going back to ASUS and RMerlins firmware. My N66U was rock solid, AC68U will be installed tonite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

Thanks, everyone for the comments. I think the experiences posted (and Tim's review) are what cause me to be hesitant about the AirPort Extreme. It seems like the AC1900 routers for the same money are significantly faster even when functioning as AC1750 routers. And, of course, my goal is primarily to get something that is as fast as possible, so...

Tim raises an interesting point about $100 routers, though. The thought of buying a relatively slow AC1200 or what have you router now and then replacing it in a year seems a shame, although maybe by next year another $100 router would be better than today's $200 routers? As far as I can tell, there aren't any $100 routers that are competitive with the $200 ones in speed, are there? Of course, my inclination would almost be to stick with my 802.11n router for awhile longer rather than buying two more routers...

Thanks again! Ah, for the simple days of 802.11g. ;-)

 

[tho3hite]

I'm also not in the mood to drop $100 on an ac "experiment".

I'm ready to upgrade my DIR-655 to gain the benefits of 5GHz and dual band. I want the router to be quality. even if it's not the most current standard.

I'll try the router price vs. value tool to see what looks like a good value for those features.

 

[thiggins]

I'm also not in the mood to drop $100 on an ac "experiment".

I'm ready to upgrade my DIR-655 to gain the benefits of 5GHz and dual band. I want the router to be quality. even if it's not the most current standard.

I'll try the router price vs. value tool to see what looks like a good value for those features.

But you will spend $200 for something that is going to be replaced by another $200 router in a few months?

 

[stevech]

Rarely is there a *need* for 5.8GHz WiFi in a home setting. Unless you just want to experiment.
You could keep what you have and buy a low cost 5.8GHz access point (not dual band router)

 

[tho3hite]

the wireless perfect match

But you will spend $200 for something that is going to be replaced by another $200 router in a few months?

Since I've been running a DIR-655 for five years I guess that I'm not chasing every upgrade that comes along. That router was a good match for my recently retired Late 2008 Macbook Pro.

I'm trying to find the current router that would make a similarly good match for my new MBP with 802.11ac. The search seems extra urgent since the new laptop lost both it's Firewire and Gigabit ethernet ports; I'll probably wind up using wireless for connecting to hard drives

The only router I've found on your site that comes close to your guidelines of Broadcom based and $100 is the (3rd ranked in the AC1750 class) WD AC1300 HD.

 

[tho3hite]

Rarely is there a *need* for 5.8GHz WiFi in a home setting. Unless you just want to experiment.
You could keep what you have and buy a low cost 5.8GHz access point (not dual band router)

I would have agreed with you a short while ago when my old laptop had gigabit ethernet and firewire. However, since wireless will be a main connection to my external hard drives with my new MBP anything that boosts the speed is high on my list of "needs".

If you know of some 802.11ac access points I'd be interested.

 

[thiggins]

Since I've been running a DIR-655 for five years I guess that I'm not chasing every upgrade that comes along. That router was a good match for my recently retired Late 2008 Macbook Pro.

I'm trying to find the current router that would make a similarly good match for my new MBP with 802.11ac. The search seems extra urgent since the new laptop lost both it's Firewire and Gigabit ethernet ports; I'll probably wind up using wireless for connecting to hard drives

The only router I've found on your site that comes close to your guidelines of Broadcom based and $100 is the (3rd ranked in the AC1750 class) WD AC1300 HD.

I would first invest in a USB 3 Ethernet adapter for when you really need to move a lot of stuff to and from the MBP.

AC is still evolving. I am starting to test AC clients now and am finding performance problems. In particular, I am seeing low uplink throughput and inconsistent throughput with certain combinations of clients and routers.


It is going to be a rocky ride and you are going to have to kiss a few frogs in your quest to find multi 100 Mbps throughput. And be prepared to sit in the same room as the router when you want those speeds.


If you want to experiment at the $200 level, have at it. But it will take experimentation.

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

I'm trying to find the current router that would make a similarly good match for my new MBP with 802.11ac. The search seems extra urgent since the new laptop lost both it's Firewire and Gigabit ethernet ports; I'll probably wind up using wireless for connecting to hard drives

I'm looking for pretty much the same thing. I did pick up the Thunderbolt to Gigabit adapter for $30 from Apple, but would really like to move towards wireless as much as possible since I don't have ethernet runs necessarily where I want to utilize my computer. I keep my Aperture photo library on my NAS, so I spend a lot of time moving gigabytes of photos around and the throughput difference between, say, 150 Mbps and 230 Mbps would actually be very noticeable in my usage (unlike, say, if I only used my NAS as a Time Machine drive).

All that said, I wonder with what Tim has posted if this means I should just wait and grab an AC1900 router after they drop and stabilize a bit. (Or maybe an AC1750 router if any of them adopt the improvements to the 5GHz band that makes the AC1900 routers faster.) I really wanted to replace my aging 802.11n router at the same time I set up my new MBP, but maybe it is not to be...

 

[tbutler@ofb.biz]

Hi, Tim,
I've been thinking about your recommendations... do you think any of the routers you'd recommend will achieve the maximum performance that the MBP is capable of with its AC1750 adapter? I've been looking (obviously) at the more expensive routers, but something struck me: the difference in benefit looks HUGE in your tests (50% or more improvement in the numbers you posted) when one jumps from AC1750 to AC1900 routers, But you state there really isn't an advantage to merit an AC1900 router. Is that because in real world usage those significant improvements don't actually occur?

Just trying to understand, because you obviously use a lot more routers than I do, but those great speeds you posted in your reviews of the AC1900 class routers look so tantalizing compared to the older classes.

Thanks,
Tim

 

[thiggins]

The only way to know for sure is to buy two routers and run your own tests. There are just too many variables in environment and clients to definitively say one router is better than another in any specific case.

If you want to try an AC1900, I'd go with the R7000. For an AC1750, the RT-AC66U.

There isn't that much difference in 5 GHz performance between the top routers. Look at the profile plots. Here's one comparing the R7000 and RT-AC66U.

Buy from a supplier with good return policies. Amazon allows 30 days.

 

[bensanford]

I was reading this thread because I have also ordered a new MBP, and an trying to determine what I should purchase to upgrade my existing home network. I currently have a Linksys WRT600N router that is probably 6 years old, and I would like to move up to GB ports on the wired side of the router - 8 ports would be nice.

Wireless Clients beside the MPP, will be a year old iPad, and a Samsung Laptop with Intel 6230 802.11abgn dual-band wireless.

I don't want to have to tinker with it after I get it installed, so what would be the recommendation. I have no need for USB ports, etc. on the router.

Ben Sanford