Dual WAN and mesh Wifi - what's the best way to increase internet bandwidth and wifi coverage?

[Brockwell]

I have problems with internet bandwidth and wifi.

My main questions is:

• is it better to buy a dual WAN mesh network, or to buy a cheap dual WAN router and connect this to my preferred wifi solution?

-Background-

I live in a 60 year old 2000 sq ft apartment with THICK walls.

There are also no wired internet services available in my area.

I have an unlimited data 5G mobile connection via a ZTE MC888 5G CPE modem (with wifi turned off to avoid interference). This is connected via ethernet cable to a TP Link AX6600 Wi-Fi 6 Tri-Band Gaming Router.

I’ve got an Apple TV connected by ethernet to the TP Link router, all other connections are via wifi. There are three people in the house (each with phones / laptops), plus two 1080p Apple HomeKit security cameras and one 1080p baby monitor running 24/7.

I don’t have any wifi 6E devices, so no need for anything better than wifi 6.

- The Problems -

Issues are twofold:

1. The internet bandwidth is not enough for all of the devices in the house. Without the 3x cameras, it’s passable, but with the cameras turned on internet is barely useable. Netflix, Youtube, Zoom, etc - all don’t work properly. Sometimes even loading a google search takes multiple tries.
2. Wifi coverage from my router doesn’t reach all corners of the house

-My thoughts on the problems-

For problem 1 (not enough bandwidth) I can fairly cheaply get a second 5G service with a different mobile network.

Unfortunately all other networks only offer 250gb of data - and I might get slowed down after that depending on the fair use policy.

I would need some kind of Dual WAN system where I can either load balance (in favour of my unlimited data service) or assign certain MACs (like the 3x security cameras) to the unlimited data service - and things like phones which don’t use so much data to the data-limited internet service.

For problem 2, I need a mesh network.

- A solution?-

I am thinking of getting something like the TP Link ER 605 to give Dual WAN capabilities.

For the wifi, I am thinking of trying the TP Link One Mesh RE815X. This seems to have a dedicated backhaul channel and high broadcasting power so (even though an “extender”) seems like a fairly decent and cheap way to expand my current wifi network into the corners of my apartment.

I’m hopeful the One Mesh extender will work - but if it doesn’t, I’ll have to replace the whole wifi system with a proper (and far more expensive) mesh network. Very much hoping to avoid this.

-My questions-

1. Is it possible to connect a wired dual WAN router (like the ER 605) into a wifi router (like the AX6600)? Can I still assign MACs via the load balancing dual WAN router to one internet connection or the other (even though those devices are connected by wifi to the separate router)? Is this simple to do? Does the ER 605 support this (load balancing options seem very limited in the manual)?
2. Are there any advantages of having the dual WAN system integrated with the wifi? It seems that there are very few dual WAN mesh wifi systems available (and they’re quite expensive). As above, Im hoping to fix the wifi coverage issue with the relatively cheap One Mesh extender (and not a whole new wifi mesh network). It seems sensible to get the best wifi solution for my house (whether it has dual WAN or not) if it’s easy to add dual WAN capability to a wifi network with a cheap separate device (like the ER 605).
3. Will 2x 5G connections via dual WAN actually help with the internet usability issues I’m having?

Any other suggestions very much welcome!

Thanks in advance

 

[Tech9]

Is it possible to connect a wired dual WAN router (like the ER 605) into a wifi router (like the AX6600)?

Yes. This is one of the solutions to unreliable Dual WAN in Asus routers, for example.

Can I still assign MACs via the load balancing dual WAN router to one internet connection or the other

Yes, but your second All-In-One router with Wi-Fi has to be in Access Point mode.

Are there any advantages of having the dual WAN system integrated with the wifi?

No. Asus routers don't have reliable working Dual WAN. Synology is better, but expensive.

Will 2x 5G connections via dual WAN actually help with the internet usability issues I’m having?

Unlikely. Both connections at the same location most likely will have exactly the same issues. Mobile network Internet has fluctuating speed and latency depending on cell tower load, weather conditions, RF interference, etc. You may have better luck with 2x connections to different networks using different infrastructure.

 

[L&LD]

Welcome to the forums @Brockwell.

I am thinking of a more direct approach to solve your issues 1) and 2).

Set up a secondary network for just your cameras and other IoT devices with that second (limited data) on your current router.

Buy an RT-AX88U Pro and connect it to your current ISP. I'm sure the results will be surprising. Be sure you play with location, orientation, z-height, and antennae angles, in addition to choosing the best Control Channel possible for your environment.

 

[glens]

I have an unlimited data 5G mobile connection via a ZTE MC888 5G CPE modem

Just a guess, but I'd think an alternate (primary) source of Internet, even cable if necessary, would be the first place to look. Fiber would be best...

Getting usable wifi throughout your environment is a separate issue from getting usable bandwidth to that network.

 

[Brockwell]

Hi folks - thanks very much for the replies. Really appreciate it!

A couple of follow up questions below if you have the time.

For a little more background - I'd like to keep everything on the same wifi network if possible (using my Archer GX90 AX6600 wifi router + extender - or new mesh network if necessary). The 3x cameras are baby monitors, so mostly monitored locally (but also recorded to the cloud). This means that if the phone / pc watching the camera is on the same wifi network, then the transmission is via the local network (and latency is very good).

I guess what I'd like to do is have one wifi network for the whole house, but split part of the traffic from that wifi network (cameras, IOT devices, etc) to one internet connection and direct all other traffic to my second new connection.

A few extra questions:

1. on the ER 605, can I assign the MAC address of individual devices connected to my separate wifi network to one or the other internet connection?

2. is the ER 605 OK for my use, or is there any benefit in getting a better / more expensive Dual WAN router? From TP Link or any other brand? The ER 7206 seems to have more flash and DRAM, but is this actually helpful? Bear in mind I'm not super techs savvy (as my questions probably show) so something relatively easy to use would be best)

3. how to connect the Dual WAN router to my wifi router? I believe my wifi (router TP Link Archer GX90 AX6600) has a 2.5 gbps WAN port and the ER 605 is gigabit only. Is this going to be an issue or is gigabit more than enough (noting the above about the cameras being monitored on the local network)? I also stream a lot from my MacBook to Apple TV so wondering if a gigabit port can handle all of this at once?

4. Would I connect my Apple TV by ethernet to my current wifi router, or to the Dual WAN router? Assuming I got 3x internet connections, connected the wifi router and the Apple TV, I'd have no more connections on the ER 605 - but I assume I could always connect a cheap wired router if needed for more ports? Or would the ethernet ports on my wifi router still work?

5. My current wifi router can connect a HDD and I am hopeful to use that for apple Time Machine backups. Would this still be possible if the wifi router is in Access Port mode only? Is there a workaround?

6. Perhaps this is getting a bit greedy, but I have unlimited data with my mobile phone. Is there any way to connect this to a Dual WAN router (perhaps by USB) and use this as an additional internet connection? I see there is a v2 of the ER 605 with a USB port?

Thanks so very much, appreciate these may be silly questions!

Just a guess, but I'd think an alternate (primary) source of Internet, even cable if necessary, would be the first place to look. Fiber would be best...

If only! Unfortunately there are no fixed line services to my building (it's a very small and old apartment block so I'm guessing it's not economical to roll out fibre here)

Unlikely. Both connections at the same location most likely will have exactly the same issues. Mobile network Internet has fluctuating speed and latency depending on cell tower load, weather conditions, RF interference, etc. You may have better luck with 2x connections to different networks using different infrastructure.

My plan is to get a second 5G service with another network provider - so that (hopefully) if one network is congested, the other should be better. The 5G services aren't expensive - I could even get a third service from a third provider if really necessary (I believe the ER 605 can support 3 WAN lines)

Yes, but your second All-In-One router with Wi-Fi has to be in Access Point mode.

Can you explain a little more about how this would work? Apologies but I don't follow. Are you saying that my current wifi router needs to be in AP mode? I'll have 2x modems (for the 2x 5G services) but plan to disconnect wifi on both to reduce interference. My only wifi network will be with my current wifi router.

I am thinking of a more direct approach to solve your issues 1) and 2).

Set up a secondary network for just your cameras and other IoT devices with that second (limited data) on your current router.

Buy an RT-AX88U Pro and connect it to your current ISP. I

Can you explain how this would work? Are you suggesting a second wifi network? How would this work with my second 5G connection (or are you saying I don't need one?)

 

[Tech9]

I'm sorry, but you have dozens of different area questions in a single post. This is users helping each other forum. We don't have network engineers on duty here. What you are asking for is a complete personalized networking tutorial adapted to your ISP, network devices and clients. You have to do some research yourself first.

Here is the answer to one of your questions:

1. on the ER 605, can I assign the MAC address of individual devices connected to my separate wifi network to one or the other internet connection?

Yes, you have to define WAN interfaces first in Network, WAN and then use Policy Routing in Transmission, Routing. This is only possible if ER605 is your main router and your Archer GX90 All-in-One device ("router") is set to Access Point mode. Will it support OneMesh in this operating mode - check the User Manual or search TP-Link forums.

 

[Brockwell]

You have to do some research yourself first.

Sorry for that. I'm trying, but I'm really in over my head (as you can probably tell).

Thank you for your help so far. Really appreciate it. It seems that what I'm hoping to achieve is possible - just looking for any help and pointers the experienced members of this forum could share.

 

[Tech9]

It seems that what I'm hoping to achieve is possible

In my opinion - what you want to do is unnecessary complication and extra expenses with no guaranteed improvement as a result.

All you need is a better ISP. Two inconsistent ISPs don't make one better Internet connection. I would also remove the Wi-Fi cameras above kids heads and more importantly stop uploading their pictures to the Cloud, but this is completely different conversation. I would also use a NAS for backups and not a USB HDD attached to the router.

 

[Tech9]

Unfortunately there are no fixed line services to my building

This building doesn't have phone wires? An xDSL ISP connection will be slower, but much more reliable than your mobile data 4G/5G options.

 

[Brockwell]

I would also use a NAS for backups and not a USB HDD attached to the router.

Thanks, this is a great idea. Much appreciated.

I would also remove the Wi-Fi cameras above kids heads and more importantly stop uploading their pictures to the Cloud, but this is completely different conversation.

Also a very good point. 2 of the 3 cameras are Apple HomeKit and the third is only going to be used above the crib for the first few months - so it's not ideal, but try convincing my wife otherwise...

This building doesn't have phone wires?

Let me call the one fixed line supplier in my area. There's definitely no fibre, but I can check with them about xDSL.

I'm locked into my 5G contract for a while, so it looks like I'm going for a Dual WAN set up (regardless of what the second line is).

If there's a phone line is hidden somewhere weird in my apartment, google tells me I could use a wireless bridge to get the backhaul internet connection into the ER 605 - or is this a silly idea?

 

[Tech9]

Most older buildings have phone wires and coax cables for older TV service. This opens xDSL and DOCSIS options. Both are widely used today for broadband Internet. You have to look up your address with popular ISPs around or simply call them and ask. Perhaps your neighbors have a solution already - ask around. ISP device with Wi-Fi to Wireless Bridge to Router to another Router and possibly to OneMesh Extender sounds like total mess to me with many failure points. I don't know what Google says about that. Focus on fixing your main issue first - the ISP situation.

 

[Brockwell]

Will it support OneMesh in this operating mode

Nope - tested this today. So I won't be buying my extender and will need a new mesh network. Assume if I buy a canned mesh network then the mesh functions will work in AP mode (with the ER 605 doing the heavy lifting)?

Thanks for this, you've saved me big bucks here!

Assume no mesh wifi is going to have as good dual WAN capabilities as the ER 605, so may as well buy the ER 605 now since I'll need this for my second internet connection regardless?

coax cables for older TV service

There's a 200MB DOCSIS 3.0 service available. ISP gets horrible reviews and is in the process of going out of business. Can't believe this service would be any better than a second 5G service. I just got 52mbps download / 3.7mbps upload speed on my current 5G. If I double this...

The 5G services also come with a 14 day cooling off period so once I have the ER 605 set up I could do a free test with 2x 5G?

 

[Tech9]

will need a new mesh network

I don't know what home "mesh" system will work well in your place. You perhaps have to go with "easy button" solutions like TP-Link Deco. With your ISP speeds lower end and with wireless backhaul is perhaps all you need. Something like Deco X50 2-pack or similar. Things to know - App control only and single SSID. AP Mode is available.

I just got 52mbps download / 3.7mbps upload speed on my current 5G. If I double this...

You can't really "double this". No single connection will exceed the WAN speed it's using. You can eventually have increased aggregate bandwidth to multiple devices and connections. This ER605 has no much heavy lifting to do with under 100Mbps ISP lines even in Dual WAN configuration. It can do close to Gigabit traffic up/down.

 

[degrub]

Nope - tested this today. So I won't be buying my extender and will need a new mesh network. Assume if I buy a canned mesh network then the mesh functions will work in AP mode (with the ER 605 doing the heavy lifting)?

Thanks for this, you've saved me big bucks here!

Assume no mesh wifi is going to have as good dual WAN capabilities as the ER 605, so may as well buy the ER 605 now since I'll need this for my second internet connection regardless?


There's a 200MB DOCSIS 3.0 service available. ISP gets horrible reviews and is in the process of going out of business. Can't believe this service would be any better than a second 5G service. I just got 52mbps download / 3.7mbps upload speed on my current 5G. If I double this...

The 5G services also come with a 14 day cooling off period so once I have the ER 605 set up I could do a free test with 2x 5G?

if you have RG6, or even RG59 in many cases, coax in the house going to roughly the right places, use moca to extend ethernet from the ER605. Point to point topology provides highest throughput. 1 pair of moca modems per end to end run. If there are any splitters in the path, they will have to be replaced with moca2 certified.

 

[Tech9]

For @Brockwell needs MoCA is just another extra complication and added cost with perhaps no much return of investment. Wireless shared backhaul system AX-class and with 2-stream radios provided adequate signal quality will do about 800Mbps on wireless from the main unit and about 400Mbps from the satellite. Plenty for the needs.

What I'm surprised about is coax cable available (and perhaps copper phone lines) and only one single ISP offering DOCSIS in the area. This is rather unusual situation.

 

[degrub]

not that uncommon outside of large/medium cities in the US. However, getting 5G service suggests he is close to a major highway or in a suburb/city with the density to justify the added towers.

 

[Tech9]

I don't know what country @Brockwell lives in. Most folks around here assume US automatically, but there are other countries in the world. Similarly most folks around here assume everyone needs relatively expensive equipment with 2.5GbE WAN/LAN ports, MoCA adapters, etc. In many places average ISP speeds don't exceed 100Mbps.

 

[Brockwell]

What I'm surprised about is coax cable available (and perhaps copper phone lines) and only one single ISP offering DOCSIS in the area. This is rather unusual situation.

I'm in Asia, smack bang in the middle of a big city. There's 10G FTTP in the building next door to me (which has hundreds of apartments) - but because I'm in a tiny apartment block (less than 10 apartments) none of the carriers have rolled out anything to my building in decades.

I used to have 1000mb FTTP in my previous apartment which was great. I recently moved to this new place (because of the baby coming) - apartment is perfect other than the lack of fixed lines, and the enormous thick walls!

I've put a call into the copper line provider but they found out my address and referred me to their 5G service! Will try again tomorrow.

I've got the in-laws coming in from internationally in a couple of weeks - they won't have roaming phones (and will spend most of their time at home with the baby anyway) so going to need lots of wifi - which is why I'm trying to get this fixed ASAP (in between working full time and trying to help my wife with the newborn)!

I really really really appreciate the help.

MoCA is just another extra complication and added cost with perhaps no much return of investment

agree - and my concern (same with the DOCSIS 3.0 connection) is about aging local coax infrastructure. I pulled off a wall plate today to find the coax, which had just been snipped off - no terminator or anything. That kind of stuff degrades network performance, and I shudder to think what the rest of the network in my 60+ year old building is like. The cable company recently shut down their cable channels because they kept losing money - this should mean extra headroom / channels for internet - but I think they have no money to invest in the network or buy decent backhaul.

Hence the attraction of the 5G. There are multiple 5G carriers and heaps of towers close by so I'd hope that 2x 5G with different carriers could be suitable. But no way to find out other than try I guess.

If there are any splitters in the path, they will have to be replaced with moca2 certified.

it's a rental, so I don't think practically this kind of thing would be possible - hence a bit of the concern about anything on coax.

You can't really "double this". No single connection will exceed the WAN speed it's using. You can eventually have increased aggregate bandwidth to multiple devices and connections.

Forgive me if I've misunderstood - but assume 2x WANs in 1:1 load balancing. If I have only one end device connected, does this mean 50% of packets to to one WAN, 50% to the other? Doesn't this double my throughput? Or have I completely misunderstood dual WAN?

Wireless shared backhaul system AX-class and with 2-stream radios provided adequate signal quality will do about 800Mbps on wireless from the main unit and about 400Mbps from the satellite.

Given my thick walls I think I might need to daisy chain satellites (though I hope not). Would this (plus lots of local data for IP cameras, NAS, Apple TV streaming, etc) suggest tri-band with dedicated backhaul is sensible?


Thanks so much folks. You are lifesavers.

 

[Tech9]

Forgive me if I've misunderstood - but assume 2x WANs in 1:1 load balancing. If I have only one end device connected, does this mean 50% of packets to to one WAN, 50% to the other? Doesn't this double my throughput? Or have I completely misunderstood dual WAN?

By "connection" I mean Internet communication, not physical cable connections. Every single connection will be limited to respective WAN speed it is using. For example speed test single threaded will show you 50Mbps. Two devices running speed test simultaneously on different WANs may have 100Mbps aggregate throughput. You won't see 100Mbps on any of your clients though unless it's multi threaded and split between the two WANs - something like torrent file download. For most applications you'll have the speed of one of your WAN connections. Dual WAN with load balancing doesn't necessarily mean 2x throughput. It depends on what is using it and how.

With 2x WANs with latency and speed fluctuations your best option is perhaps policy routing with devices split between WAN connections. I don't know if ER605 will do automatic fail-over though. This is something for you to test in real life conditions. Some Multi WAN routers will bypass policy routing rules on WAN down event.

 

[glens]

By "connection" I mean Internet communication, not physical cable connections. Every single connection will be limited to respective WAN speed it is using. For example speed test single threaded will show you 50Mbps. Two devices running speed test simultaneously on different WANs may have 100Mbps aggregate throughput. You won't see 100Mbps on any of your clients though unless it's multi threaded and split between the two WANs - something like torrent file download. For most applications you'll have the speed of one of your WAN connections. Dual WAN with load balancing doesn't necessarily mean 2x throughput. It depends on what is using it and how.

This!

You /may/ get 2x /aggregate network -- Internet throughput/ if clients are sucking data through both sources simultaneously, and it would be fair to expect this to happen from time to time, but I'd think it wouldn't fall that way /all/ the time.

Know anybody in that next building who could provide a point-to-point wireless feed for a nominal fee?