OT - surviving pandemic from personal experience (no trolling, PLEASE)

[cmkelley]

I gotta admit, I don't think my job is that "essential" in the short run, unfortunately the U.S. government thinks differently (I work for a defense contractor), so I'm off to work Monday morning. Yeah, in the long run, sure, we are more or less the only player in a niche market, so the DoD has an interest in us not going out of business, but I think the government can live without our widgets for a month or two. I'm being intentionally vague, but the knowledge involved in design of our product is not something they teach in college, anywhere, so it's not like someone else can just stand up a business doing what we do.

 

[L&LD]

In less than 8 hours the old 'D. is back.

It must be nice to have the choice to shut your business/income down, indefinitely.

Ever think that others may not have that same choice?

 

[Val D.]

Ever think that others may not have that same choice?

A household or a business that can't survive for 3 months with no income obviously made bad choices in the past.

 

[L&LD]

Life is far from being a business.

 

[RMerlin]

Don't know how it is elsewhere, but here in Quebec, they aren't asking businesses to shut down - they are asking people to stay home, and work remotely, unless you are an essential service (food/pharmacy/etc...)

In my case it's almost business as usual since I was already working from home, except I no longer go on service calls. I spent the last week helping my customers get set up for remote work: configuring employee's VPNs, implementing other types of remote access based on the customer's specific needs (FTP, web access, TeamViewer/LogMeIn, OpenVPN, etc...). I also migrated a customer from his on premises Kerio Connect mail server to Office 365 as they don't trust their server to stay up unattended for three weeks (they rent office space in a business center, so things can get iffy). That migration was already planned for April, we just rushed it out over the course of last week as they just started to work remotely.

This has probably been my busiest week since the start of the year, and I expect the next couple of days to still be the same. Got multiple VPN clients to setup, finalize that O365 migration, plus my end of the month invoicing to complete as I'm falling behind due to my workload...

We IT folks might not be the heroes that the people working in the health care or food supply chain are, but we do carry a fairly important role right now, helping limit the damage that this enforced quarantine will have on almost every small businesses. By keeping them partly operating through this, they can still provide some of their usual services. A lot of my customers are non-profit organizations, so these do not depend on short term incomes like most businesses do. For these, the backlash may possibly be in the aftermath, as subventions may dry out in the next fiscal year

At this time, I'm quite satisfied with how the Quebec government has been handling this. They started to act fairly early, going progressively with stricter measures, keeping us well informed along the way. And they manage to still convey a fairly positive message in their daily media sessions through all the bad news. Today for instance, they admitted that the current rate of infection is a bit flatter than what their initial projections were, indicating that so far, their measures are having a positive impact. It might become more visible in the coming days, since it will now be about two weeks since they started implementing those measures, and there's typically a 7-12 days delay between a measure and it's measurable impact (as you have to take into account the incubation time for any new infection).

Ultimately, I think we will eventually talk about 2020 like our great grand-parents talked about the Great Depression, or our grand-parents about WWII (for those who has the misfortune of living in Europe/Asia during that time). The kind of once-in-a-lifetime disaster that will forever mark your life.

 

[RMerlin]

A household or a business that can't survive for 3 months with no income obviously made bad choices in the past.

Depends on the business. Last week, some specialists said that for the majority of restaurants, they were generally three weeks away from going bankrupt (in normal times), due to the business model associated with their market. A restaurant doesn't have major income boosts from holidays or seasonal events, or from a major sale, they have to deal with the profit margin of the day-to-day operation, in a very competitive market.

In some other businesses, employees are expensive, so you can't pay them for extended periods of times unless you get some major incomes now and then. I'm thinking for instance about some of my customers who are engineering consultants or architectural designers. Having to pay a team of engineers at their usual salary without any inbound cashflow cannot last for too long.

 

[Val D.]

Life is far from being a business.

A simple calculator works in both cases. The problem is many people want to maintain the "lifestyle" they can't actually afford. And this is what creates the financial issues, not the viruses. The itch to constantly buy things and constantly consume is a much worse disease than COVID-19. I know a business owner who drives around in a $120K Maserati or $90K F150 Raptor, goes 4 times a year on expensive vacations and lives in a $2.5mln house. This same guy now has issues to pay the rent for business property he runs. And it's not really that much compared to the profit he used to make. A $2 calculator from DollarTree is the best help I can offer in this case. The governments should assess very carefully who actually needs help and who pushed his own business/household to the edge of bankruptcy even before the coronavirus.

Depends on the business. Last week, some specialists said that for the majority of restaurants, they were generally three weeks away from going bankrupt (in normal times), due to the business model associated with their market.

Exactly. This is called non-sustainable business. They have to close anyway.

In some other businesses, employees are expensive...

Correct. An engineer with $100K+ salary has to be able to survive for 3 months easier than others.

 

[L&LD]

The people who earn enough to drive around in Maserati's and Raptors but still live above their means are meaningless examples.

I'm talking about the people who aren't even given that option. People that can't in one way or another even participate here with us.

Life is more than what your small world entails. People who are actually struggling seem to be imperceptible to you.

 

[thiggins]

Folks, please. No judgement. This thread has done well so far. Let's not have it go off the rails or I will shut it down. We all have enough stress to deal with now.

 

[RMerlin]

Correct. An engineer with $100K+ salary has to be able to survive for 3 months easier than others.

But his employer might not be able to keep the business running for that long without any business income - I was referring to the businesses' ability to survive this quarantine without going under.

 

[Val D.]

People who are actually struggling seem to be imperceptible to you.

Don't get me wrong @L&LD. I know there are unfortunate people who need help. I did help myself many times to people in need in my own way. When majority of people around though say they can't survive in isolation even a month, then something is totally wrong with the entire model. In last 2 years a see increasing amount of people buying things under $200 value on 12 monthly payments. Things no one will die without like home decor, smart door bells, cameras, etc. They just can't overcome "I want it badly" and "Everyone has one" factor and get deeper and deeper in debt hoping one day to recover. Every business or household has to have some contingency fund in case of emergency. As per my own rules, not enough funds available to survive for 3 months with no income is already an emergency situation requiring immediate actions.

Look at my signature. The PC my home Internet firewall runs on is a re-purposed ultra-slim desktop like 6-7 years old, got it for $100. I could easily get a f-king HP server model 2020 for $10.000 to run the same pfSense on. But I didn't, because it's plain stupid and a waste of money. The phone I use is an iPhone 6S from 2015, it does everything I heed a phone to do. People working for me on $16/h carry iPhone 11 Pro Max and post pictures on Instagram with it. One of my workers drives a Honda Accord with 20-inch custom rims and tires, the set is probably more expensive than a car. He has over $7000 outstanding balance on his credit card, but the car is a p-ssy magnet. When I fly to Europe my airplane tickets are $4500 for 4 people, purchased months in advance on best price available. A colleague of mine books Business Class for $4500 a seat. Can't survive 7 hours on a normal plane seat or what? Not 7 years, 7 hours! Examples like this everywhere you look around. Are all those people in need now?

But his employer might not be able to keep the business running for that long without any business income - I was referring to the businesses' ability to survive this quarantine without going under.

I can tell you in about 60 seconds what is going on, I just need to walk on the parking lot. If the owner of this company drives a Mercedes S-Class for $150K or more, then I can offer him a $2 calculator too. Running a business is no different than maintaining a household.

My apologies @thiggins. My views about what is going on and why are clear enough. There is nothing personal here and I have nothing more to add. I really hope COVID-19 issue clears up in next few months and everyone remains healthy and most importantly alive.

 

[thiggins]

@Val D. Please stop or I will close the thread.

 

[heysoundude]

I too was warned about sharing my (and it seems yours, as well) financial perspectives earlier in this thread [mention]Val D. [/mention] , but I think it was [mention]L&LD [/mention] who pointed out something to the effect of “you get to the right answers if you follow the money,” [mention]thiggins [/mention] There is MUCH more going on here than a virus. Look at the massive reduction in environmental pollution that keeps popping up in the news. Look at how badly some of our fellow humans behave when faced with the possibility of no toilet paper. Look at the unprecedented measures governments are taking to keep their economies afloat (and I would say to stay in power until at least the next elections).
Clearly a war of some sort is being waged; the victor will write the historical accounts for future generations (assuming...) as usual, but what about discussing possibilities as we each see them from our own perspectives as days evolve and elapse?

Personally, here in Canada, I’m having great fun pointing out that we’re seeing how relevant certain highly politicized “issues” truly are. A pipeline to get Alberta oil to tidewater doesn’t seem as important as a stronger data infrastructure allowing all Canadians equal access to that which clearly drives our economy - communication.

So yes, we are clearly reevaluating things in light of the changes we’re facing. And thing are indeed changing, in some cases more rapidly than others. But it all needs discussing, openly, because all ideas are worth debating in civil society. Or do you not agree?


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[thiggins]

So yes, we are clearly reevaluating things in light of the changes we’re facing. And thing are indeed changing, in some cases more rapidly than others. But it all needs discussing, openly, because all ideas are worth debating in civil society. Or do you not agree?

If this question is directed to me, my answer is yes, the issues are worth debating. But please take the discussion elsewhere. I have neither the time nor interest in moderating it.

 

[Butterfly Bones]

As the OP, my opinion is that what @Val D. and @heysoundude are expressing are valid and they are not "trolling" as I stated in the title. I personally appreciate those opinions (knowing they are just that personal opinions), though they are close to getting into dangerous territory, and maybe encourage angry judgmental postings. I was / am seeing personal experience it what each of us is experiencing with this massive change in out behavior due to a worldwide pandemic.

I hope this can continue productively, even with edge posts, and that @thiggins guides those edge posts without shutting down the thread, Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

LATER EDIT -

After seeing @thiggins post not wanting to moderate, maybe I can watch and if I see things going badly, I can report the post and not shut down the thread unless hopelessly necessary?

 

[heysoundude]

It was.
So don’t. Take the same chance you did in setting this site/these forums up (assuming that was you) in the first place. Let it roll and see where it goes. It may yet take you to interesting places, as long as participants adhere to the terms and conditions (which few of us probably read or can remember). I think the most of us are pretty kind, caring and polite folk, and cameraderies if not outright friendships -and in some notable cases associations and even (gasp!) teams -have evolved between and among some of us. Until nasty names are thrown about, deserved or not, we’re in good shape here. It’s pretty awesome, this, when you look at it.


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[thiggins]

Suit yourselves.

 

[Butterfly Bones]

Suit yourselves.

Thank you. If anything appears to me to get out of hand, I will report. I / we appreciate the opportunity.

 

[RMerlin]

I can tell you in about 60 seconds what is going on, I just need to walk on the parking lot. If the owner of this company drives a Mercedes S-Class for $150K or more, then I can offer him a $2 calculator too. Running a business is no different than maintaining a household.

None of my customers do. The vast majority of the owners/managers drive regular family cars. A few might have a slightly better car than average, but not a single one drives a $50K+ car as far as I know. They also often work 50-60 hours a week, as they aren't managers hired by a board to do a job, but they are actual owners who have a personal interest in their company doing well and staying afloat. There is no golden parachute for them, only a hard concrete floor if they happen to fall - and that floor comes really quickly if they do fall.

What applies to a 2-25 employees business is not the same as what applies to a 25-250 employees SMB. Those in the 2-25 employee class will have trouble surviving through an extended shutdown, and not because of mismanagement, simply because of the economics of sustaining such a small business is very different from a larger corporation. You can't apply a one-size-fit-all perspective on every single business owner.

 

[RMerlin]

If discussions get too heated in this thread, I will get my Scotch Tape and scissors out and delete posts. Just so everyone is warned.

I second Tim's feeling however, that right now I don't feel like having to deal with this kind of stuff in addition to everything else that's currently going on. So be warned, I may have a very short fuse if people misbehave here.

I think the most of us are pretty kind, caring and polite folk, and cameraderies if not outright friendships

You probably don't see some of the stuff that we have to delete as we come across it or it gets reported by other users... It takes only one bad apple to completely ruin a thread for everyone else involved. So, Tim's original worries there were justified.