Persistent issues with AX11000, AC1900P, and AX1800S and AiMesh

[Cornerstone]

Hello everyone!

This is my first post here, so I hope I have followed all the proper forum etiquette here. It is probably best to state here that I am far enough along the Dunning-Kruger curve to know that while I know a decent bit about WiFi and networking, I fully understand I know nothing. So please be patient if I use terms incorrectly and if explaining, dumb it down a little for me.

I live in a small 1200SqFt house that is pretty open in its floorplan, and neighbors are around 50-75 yards away. My internet plan is a 1000 mbps up/down, and I average on a wired connection around ~800ish. I rent my home, so running wired drops is most likely off the table.


My current routers are as follows:

• Asus AX11000 as the main router running stock 3.0.0.4.388_22525-gd35b8fe firmware. It is in the front of the house in my office.
• Asus AC1900P as a AiMesh node with a wireless backhaul. It's firmware is unknown currently, but I believe it is 3.0.0.4.386.48262. This is located in my Observatory around 100 yards away in my backyard.
• Asus AX1800S as a AiMesh node with a wireless backhaul. I do not know it's firmware, but more on this. This is located in my living room, around 15-20 yards from my main router.

When the mesh works, all nodes have great signal and I get very good speeds in the observatory, despite the distance. However, for that location I care more about a stable, bulletproof connection, than speed.

My home does have a decent amount of IOT devices. I have 3 Apple Homepod Mini's, large amount of Nanoleaf Smart lights, and a few Eufy Cameras (yeah I know what's gone on). The lights are connected to Homekit via Thread, so they shouldn't be saturating the network. The camera's are on WiFi. The home is just me and my wife, so there is not a lot of streaming or network load.


When I initially setup the AiMesh network, all was fine. I noticed no major issues and did a lot of testing comparing the Asus options, to TP-Link, and other more dedicated mesh setups. However, over the past 2-3 months, I have noticed issues arise. Homekit devices stop responding, webpages buffer more than they used to, and I could get some network timeouts on a smart TV. I just chalked them up to random ISP issues.

But as time progressed, these became more common. I checked my local network and the other Wifi signals around me. Pretty much all them were on Channel 1 so I did some changes that I read on this forum and made sure that my main channels were on the unused bands. Most of the networks are low strength anyways.

2.4 ghz is on Channel 6 and locked to 20Mhz. Wireless mode is on Auto, Wifi 6 is enabled.

5 ghz is on Channel 40, but the Control Channel is set to auto (I have changed this several times and it reverts back), and the bandwidth is the 20/40/80/160 Mhz option.


But...

Over the past 3 weeks, everything has hit the fan. The other AiMesh nodes keep disconnecting from the mesh and I have to reset them and redo the AiMesh setup. This has occurred 4 times. I have spent 6 hours on the phone with Asus Support but there is no fix. This is why I cannot pull up the exact firmware to the other nodes. Wifi Speeds are, at times, as slow as .2 mbps on my desktop. However, there are times where the speed can be in the 700-800 down, 900-1000 up, with a ping of 4 ms, but pages take forever to load. Even the wifi access page or sites that normally load instantly.

I hate wifi issues. I work as a video editor and constantly have to upload or download large amounts of files and one blip occurs, then it is back to the start. As I also mentioned, I have an observatory with my telescope in it. In order to control it, I have to remote into the computer inside of it. When the mesh breaks, I lose the ability to connect. I know this is the "Asus" forum, but I am open to any options, including selling these and getting a better system. I just want reliability and I fail to understand not only why the mesh persistently fails, but when it does fail, why the nodes go from "offline" to seemingly be completely forgotten by the Mesh Network.

I have read that the the two AX routers and 1 AC could lead to issues theoretically, but have yet to see clear proof and is something Asus has explicitly said is not a thing. My house does have a disconnected sat on the roof, and all the main rooms have Coax's. I have though about trying to see if I might could run 1 drop to the living room, and another out of the soffit where the sat is, down the siding of the house, and lightly buried in the yard to the observatory so that it is easy to remove when I move.


Thanks for taking the time to read all of this!

 

[Tech9]

but have yet to see clear proof and is something Asus has explicitly said is not a thing

Asus marketing sold 3x Asus routers to you and they are happy. They make you believe whatever Asus AiMesh compatible router you buy it will instantly integrate in any AiMesh and start providing seamless roaming and what not. The reality is a bit different. One of your routers is perhaps more than you need (AX11000) HND platform on 388 firmware, the other is about 10-years old ARMv7 platform with different base firmware (AC1900P), the third is the cheapest MediaTek based (from what I can find) Asus AX router (AX1800S) and also with different firmware base. Everyone's Wi-Fi environment is different and no one can give you best settings. If you call Asus Support they will ask you to reboot and reset countless times because they have no clue what's going on. If you rely on SNB Forums support you'll be asked to reboot and reset countless times for the same reason. When you invest in such mix and match setup you pay with you money first and with your time after. There is nothing much you can fix except playing with different firmware versions and best compatibility non-DFS channels Wi-Fi settings. You have to find the way to use this thing in some acceptable way.

Options I would explore:
- AX11000 as single centrally located (to the property) router
- AX1800S as single AiMesh node in your backyard, if needed

 

[bbunge]

The AC router will limit the functions of an AX router when the AC is used as a mesh node. Better to use the AC as a media bridge and connect the clients in the observatory with Ethernet cables. Make sure the AX node firmware is up to date.

 

[Cornerstone]

Asus marketing sold 3x Asus routers to you and they are happy. They make you believe whatever Asus AiMesh compatible router you buy it will instantly integrate in any AiMesh and start providing seamless roaming and what not. The reality is a bit different. One of your routers is perhaps more than you need (AX11000) HND platform on 388 firmware, the other is about 10-years old ARMv7 platform with different base firmware (AC1900P), the third is the cheapest MediaTek based (from what I can find) Asus AX router (AX1800S) and also with different firmware base. Everyone's Wi-Fi environment is different and no one can give you best settings. If you call Asus Support they will ask you to reboot and reset countless times because they have no clue what's going on. If you rely on SNB Forums support you'll be asked to reboot and reset countless times for the same reason. When you invest in such mix and match setup you pay with you money first and with your time after. There is nothing much you can fix except playing with different firmware versions and best compatibility non-DFS channels Wi-Fi settings. You have to find the way to use this thing in some acceptable way.

Options I would explore:
- AX11000 as single centrally located (to the property) router
- AX1800S as single AiMesh node in your backyard, if needed

I do not say this as a snarky remark, but I am glad you said that. I actually believed that was the case. I have found over the years that saying things that I think were true, but wasn't sure, left me wondering. Instead, if I say something confidently that I am pretty sure is wrong, someone will correct me and I get a much better solution.

You are spot on though. Originally, I owned the AX11000 because I had a large amount of devices I needed to connect that were ethernet only, and I had a NAS for video editing. I was also in a larger house. The AX11000 was on a crazy sale and was cheaper than a decent router + switch. The other routers were just added on over time.

Everything you said makes complete sense and I am not really seeking "best settings", but more trying to see if there is a better solution for the AiMesh. It seems the AC1900P throws things for a loop, and the older and cheaper AX1800S is not doing me any favors either.

In your opinion, what would you advise?

 

[Cornerstone]

The AC router will limit the functions of an AX router when the AC is used as a mesh node. Better to use the AC as a media bridge and connect the clients in the observatory with Ethernet cables. Make sure the AX node firmware is up to date.

So pretty much all devices in the observatory are connected via ethernet, be sides a few cameras and a device called a Shelly that cannot connected to anything besides Wifi. I want to at least have an ethernet backhaul to the observatory, but I do not know the legality of barely burying an ethernet cable in my county, nor do I know if the landlord would allow it/how expensive it would be.

As for the firmware, Asus advised me not to update the AX1800S or the AC1900P to the latest firmware because it apparently was not compatible with the AiMesh. That is what started all of this. I updated the firmware for all of the nodes and the main router, lost the AiMesh, could never get them to reconnect or set up again (even with direct ethernet connection), so I rolled back everything until the AX11000 got a firmware that they suggested I upgrade to.

 

[Tech9]

You are spot on though.

This place is full of very useful information, but also with Asus fans who know nothing else. I don't like wasting someone's time and sugar coating things. AiMesh in my eyes is an afterthought solution to enter the trendy "mesh" consumer market with whatever is available and with some aggressive marketing targeting mostly non-educated customers it sells more routers very successfully. From a business point of view - it's genius. From user experience point of view - it works somehow, but far from the best on the market even among other home "mesh" systems.

In your opinion, what would you advise?

Not sure what to advise. AiMesh works best with identical model routers running the same firmware and with wired backhaul. In your strictly wireless situation there is no much of a choice. As I suggested above, I would explore better main router placement and eliminating one of the nodes options - the oldest AC1900P. What else you can do - experiment with firmware versions, make main router Wi-Fi as compatible as possible, use non-DFS channels, don't push for 160MHz for no reason... there is nothing much you can do. AiMesh part of firmware is a black box.

 

[Tech9]

As for the firmware, Asus advised me not to update the AX1800S or the AC1900P to the latest firmware because it apparently was not compatible with the AiMesh.

Wow... this is something new. I may have to edit my workaround solution to another AiMesh issue in another thread:

RT-AX86U Pro (merlin firmware: 388.1_0) as default aimesh & RT-AC68U as aimesh node

Hi. I bought a new RT-AX86U Pro router as a replacement for the RT-AC68U. To begin with, I updated the firmware in RT-AX86U Pro to the merlin firmware: 388.1_0 and configured everything. In RT-AC68U I also updated the merlin firmware: 386.10_0. Currently I would like to use the RT-AC68U as an...

www.snbforums.com

 

[Cornerstone]

This place is full of very useful information, but also with Asus fans who know nothing else. I don't like wasting someone's time and sugar coating things. AiMesh in my eyes is an afterthought solution to enter the trendy "mesh" consumer market with whatever is available and with some aggressive marketing targeting mostly non-educated customers it sells more routers very successfully. From a business point of view - it's genius. From user experience point of view - it works somehow, but far from the best on the market even among other home "mesh" systems.



Not sure what to advise. AiMesh works best with identical model routers running the same firmware and with wired backhaul. In your strictly wireless situation there is no much of a choice. As I suggested above, I would explore better main router placement and eliminating one of the nodes options - the oldest AC1900P. What else you can do - experiment with firmware versions, make main router Wi-Fi as compatible as possible, use non-DFS channels, don't push for 160MHz for no reason... there is nothing much you can do. AiMesh part of firmware is a black box.

Like any place, whenever you receive a piece of information you can either eat it and digest it, chew it some and spit it out, or just completely disregard it in the first place.

In my research of AiMesh, though I did not come across it's initial inception, it does seem like a novel and useful "addition" to their system versus a directed creation.

I fully understand the short comings of the AiMesh system, especially running it wirelessly. I had hope that there just might be something that I never came across in my research that could fix the issue. Unfortunately, moving the main router is not really an option. Not only do I need it to be in my office for some of the devices I use, but the only other place that would be more central is our living room. The kicker is that for some reason, whoever built this house put the knock out plate for Coax/Ethernet about 6 ft up in the air on the side of the wall, where it cannot be hidden even by a TV. I can promise the wife will not let a cable run down the wall. The plate was already almost a deal breaker.

As for the nodes, I might can return them but I do not know a better solution. The placement of the AX11000 is not ideal, so on the other side of the house, where the kitchen and master bed room are located, speeds are quite poor on 5Ghz and the cameras in the backyard pretty much get no 2.4Ghz signal. While I could get another AX11000 so that they match, I would have to place it in the observatory since the devices in there have to use ethernet to function. That would probably provide quite good signal for the cameras and devices on that side of the home.

I have a buddy who use to do AV installs for a living so I am going to see if he can come by and help me create a temporary solution so that I might could get a wired backhaul. I just wish there were some known good options instead of having to match model for model for AiMesh to work better.



As for the other comment on the firmware, it could be fixed now. They were telling me that because the Ax11000 on 388, where before it was on 386, and the AC1900P and AX1800S were on 386, that I should not mix the firmware's. My AX11000 is now on latest firm, which is the 2nd 388 update, but the other two are still on some version of 386, with the 1900P now having a new 386 update that apparently fixes some AiMesh stuff. How much of this is true versus junk, I am not sure. But I will say the guy I spoke to did not seem like someone who was just doing marketing crap. He was the most through and had me run many test to see what other options we could try. After several hours of speaking to many agents, he definitely stood out so maybe his advice is good.

 

[Tech9]

I fully understand the short comings of the AiMesh system, especially running it wirelessly. I had hope that there just might be something that I never came across in my research that could fix the issue.

Nothing much to fix - AiMesh is just a fancy name of wired access points or wireless repeaters with very limited control from the main unit. You have no channel choice (when wired), no Tx power control (wired/wireless), no different SSID choice. AiMesh 2.0 introduced VLAN Guest Network 1 to "nodes" and some "binding" options. What used to be a "router" before now is called "mesh router". What used to be AP/Extender is now called a "node".

They were telling me that because the Ax11000 on 388, where before it was on 386, and the AC1900P and AX1800S were on 386, that I should not mix the firmware's.

This is not true. Main router on 388 and nodes on 386 both use the same or very close AiMesh 2.0 code. Many folks around use newer routers with 388 firmware and older nodes on 386 firmware. Unfortunately, you can't trust even Asus Support guys. I'm assuming they know very little and just match your questions to answers on their computer screen. Most of the "troubleshooting" you can get is reboot and reset on repeat. If no solution - RMA.

I have a buddy who use to do AV installs for a living so I am going to see if he can come by and help

Excellent idea. He may have experience with similar configuration places in the area and may even suggest better hardware. I read your property description, but suggesting something without seeing it in person has a lot of guessing involved. There are different ways to solve the problem and some need extra creativity. A hint - there are directional outdoor APs with high-gain antennas and 90-120 degree beam. You need someone who knows.

 

[Ranger802004]

Asus marketing sold 3x Asus routers to you and they are happy. They make you believe whatever Asus AiMesh compatible router you buy it will instantly integrate in any AiMesh and start providing seamless roaming and what not. The reality is a bit different. One of your routers is perhaps more than you need (AX11000) HND platform on 388 firmware, the other is about 10-years old ARMv7 platform with different base firmware (AC1900P), the third is the cheapest MediaTek based (from what I can find) Asus AX router (AX1800S) and also with different firmware base. Everyone's Wi-Fi environment is different and no one can give you best settings. If you call Asus Support they will ask you to reboot and reset countless times because they have no clue what's going on. If you rely on SNB Forums support you'll be asked to reboot and reset countless times for the same reason. When you invest in such mix and match setup you pay with you money first and with your time after. There is nothing much you can fix except playing with different firmware versions and best compatibility non-DFS channels Wi-Fi settings. You have to find the way to use this thing in some acceptable way.

Options I would explore:
- AX11000 as single centrally located (to the property) router
- AX1800S as single AiMesh node in your backyard, if needed

On top of what @Tech9 said I have personally used the AC1900s as AIMesh Nodes with an AX-11000 and it's terrible and they don't work well. I swapped to an AX86U as an AIMesh Node and it's been much better.

 

[drinkingbird]

On top of what @Tech9 said I have personally used the AC1900s as AIMesh Nodes with an AX-11000 and it's terrible and they don't work well. I swapped to an AX86U as an AIMesh Node and it's been much better.

I wonder if it is differences in code. If you run 386 code on the AX router and the nodes (stock on the nodes, not merlin) wonder if it would work better. Obviously you're losing out on improvements in 388 on the main router but if you really want an AiMesh setup.....

 

[drinkingbird]

@Cornerstone - If you aren't using Guest wireless (not sure if you are) then Aimesh's only benefit is centralized management, and that can actually be a disadvantage as it wants everything to be equal and in synch. If you aren't using guest (or even if you are using guest but aren't restricting LAN access), just configure your nodes as standalone APs or repeaters/media bridges. Repeater will allow you to use both wired and wifi and feed it back to the main router. You of course will only get half throughput but that's the same with AIMesh.

Also curious why you have a node so close to the main router? 15-20 yards seems a bit close. Maybe just move that one to the observatory and retire the 1900P.

The two AX should be on the same code to work best.

Edit corrected media bridge to repeater (only repeater allows both wireless and wifi).

 

[Tech9]

Media bridge will allow you to use both wired and wifi

Media Bridge allows wired clients only. Repeater allows wired and wireless.

 

[drinkingbird]

Media Bridge allows wired clients only. Repeater allows wired and wireless.

Yeah my bad, typing too fast.

 

[Tech9]

Yeah my bad, typing too fast.

Chasing typing speedtest numbers? QoS need I see.

 

[drinkingbird]

Chasing typing speedtest numbers? QoS need I see.

The problem seems to be in my chair to keyboard interface.

 

[Tech9]

The problem seems to be in my chair to keyboard interface.

I know good QoS for this problem - Jack, Coke, Cake.

If Coke and Cake are not supported - Jack is effective by itself.

 

[drinkingbird]

I know good QoS for this problem - Jack, Coke, Cake.

View attachment 48506

If Coke and Cake are not supported - Jack is effective by itself.

Doubt the jack will improve the interface errors. Though a jack is a type of interface........ so maybe.

 

[Cornerstone]

On top of what @Tech9 said I have personally used the AC1900s as AIMesh Nodes with an AX-11000 and it's terrible and they don't work well. I swapped to an AX86U as an AIMesh Node and it's been much better.

I am wondering that is worth trying. As DrinkingBird mentioned below, the 2nd node is decently close to the main one. The main issue was the in the Kitchen and Masterbed Room, on just the AX11000, I was getting poor speeds due to what I believe is probably some dead zones. There are 5 walls between the router and the bedroom, 3 to the kitchen. I found adding the node increase the speeds from 10-20 mbps on 5ghz to over 200-300 mbps. However...

I did some more testing on my network to see that were a couple new networks that popped up with some decent strength on both 2.4 and 5 ghz. I changed some settings to allow the router to chose it's down channel for 2.4, and turned off the 160mhz on the 5Ghz. So far, I have noticed much better speeds on the 5ghz, with no major testing on the 2.4 besides noticing that accessing my cameras in the backyard seems to be faster. Time will tell.

@Cornerstone - If you aren't using Guest wireless (not sure if you are) then Aimesh's only benefit is centralized management, and that can actually be a disadvantage as it wants everything to be equal and in synch. If you aren't using guest (or even if you are using guest but aren't restricting LAN access), just configure your nodes as standalone APs or repeaters/media bridges. Repeater will allow you to use both wired and wifi and feed it back to the main router. You of course will only get half throughput but that's the same with AIMesh.

Also curious why you have a node so close to the main router? 15-20 yards seems a bit close. Maybe just move that one to the observatory and retire the 1900P.

The two AX should be on the same code to work best.

Edit corrected media bridge to repeater (only repeater allows both wireless and wifi).

Since I am using the mesh, I only have the 2.4 and 5Ghz-1 that I have access too (each with their own SSID). The third 5Ghz is just used for the backhaul. I do not have it hidden, but nothing is connected to it and it has it's down SSID as well.

Much of your comment does go over my understanding. My only reason for the AiMesh was the hope for simplicity. Plug and play. The node in the living room was for better signal in the kitchen, bedroom, and anything in the yard/garage. Originally, I had the AX1800 in the Observatory and the AC1900P inside. I had hoped the 2nd mesh node would help provide a better signal to the Observatory node. But I randomly switch the nodes when they all went offline the first time and noticed that while prior, the AX1800 connected to the 1900 then to the main router, with the new setup, the AC1900P would connect to the main router with better signal than before.

When it comes to the usage of a media bridge, repeater, and any other options there might be, I am fully open to them. But, when researching them on my own, I found that "tutorials" seem to assume you already had a certain level of knowledge and understanding, as well as, knowing how to configure everything correctly. That is not the case for me.



Overall, my cares are simple:

I want to be able to stream to any device smoothly and without delay coming from my end, from anywhere in the house (I understand the issue can sometimes not be client side)

I want my cameras and smart devices that function on wifi to be stable and not time out or fail to respond

I want stable access to the observatory at all times for smooth operation and for the option to control remotely.


Some of those would be solve with Wifi solutions, some would be better for wired connections. I still have not had to chance to even see if running a drop is possible, much less even remotely affordable. I rent so I am hamstrung on my options.

 

[drinkingbird]

I am wondering that is worth trying. As DrinkingBird mentioned below, the 2nd node is decently close to the main one. The main issue was the in the Kitchen and Masterbed Room, on just the AX11000, I was getting poor speeds due to what I believe is probably some dead zones. There are 5 walls between the router and the bedroom, 3 to the kitchen. I found adding the node increase the speeds from 10-20 mbps on 5ghz to over 200-300 mbps. However...

I did some more testing on my network to see that were a couple new networks that popped up with some decent strength on both 2.4 and 5 ghz. I changed some settings to allow the router to chose it's down channel for 2.4, and turned off the 160mhz on the 5Ghz. So far, I have noticed much better speeds on the 5ghz, with no major testing on the 2.4 besides noticing that accessing my cameras in the backyard seems to be faster. Time will tell.

160 often does more harm than good. 80mhz will give you plenty of speed and does not overlap with radar and has many more channels to choose from (160 only has 2, both of which overlap with radar bands). 160 also reduces your range. With an 80mhz channel and typical 2x2 client you can get 500 to 600 megabits on an AC client and close to 1G on an AX client, which should be plenty.

Try your main router without the node and see how your speed and coverage is now. Leave it at 80mhz, disable "universal beamforming" on both bands, and make sure "airtime fairness" is also disabled on both bands. You can also try changing the MU-MIMO setting, for some it helps to have it disabled, for others it doesn't matter. That is mainly for people who have multiple large bandwidth connections going at the same time. Leave it at auto channel and see what it picks. You can then hardcode that channel if you want, honestly I leave mine on auto and it is fine.

If that gives you good house coverage, move your node out to the observatory. It may not be able to backhaul 5ghz depending on distance and obstructions but that's no different than your 1900.

I'm assuming you don't have the option of moving the main house router to a more central spot, but that may not be necessary anyway.

Also configure your antennas with some of them at 45 degree angles. That router has so many antenna I'm not sure which do what, ideally you want 1/3 of them straight up, 1/3 45 degrees to the left and 1/3 45 degrees to the right. However that one has 8 antenna and I'm not sure if they're all dual band or if some are 2.4 and some are 5, or if some are dedicated to each radio, etc. Probably need some more research on that and maybe just leave them all straight up for now. I can't seem to find any info on google as to how they're connected, probably need to find a board layout somewhere. So I guess ignore that suggestion for now.