RT-AC86U - unable to select channels 120-128

[relgames]

Hi all,

I live in Netherlands and bough RT-AC86U there. However, the country code it advertises is DE (Germany).
Probably, as both are in EU I assume it should not matter.

The issue is, I'm unable to select channels 120/124/128:

It means I can't use one 80 Mhz band, as only 116 is available.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#5_GHz_(802.11a/h/j/n/ac/ax) channels 120-128 are allowed for Europe.
I also checked logs to see if those channels were disabled due to DFS/Radar, could not find anything relevant:

SSID: "..."
noise: -87 dBm    Channel: 100/80
BSSID: ...    Capability: ESS RRM
Supported Rates: [ 6(b) 9 12(b) 18 24(b) 36 48 54 ]
VHT Capable:
    Chanspec: 5GHz channel 106 80MHz (0xe06a)
    Primary channel: 100
    HT Capabilities:
    Supported HT MCS : 0-31
    Supported VHT MCS:
        NSS1 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11     
        NSS2 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11     
        NSS3 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11     
        NSS4 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11     

Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode    : AP Only

DFS status: state In-Service Monitoring(ISM) time elapsed 1461450ms radar channel cleared by DFS channel 100/80 (0xE06A)

Channel Information                    
----------------------------------------
Channel 36    A Band
Channel 40    A Band
Channel 44    A Band
Channel 48    A Band
Channel 52    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 56    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 60    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 64    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 100    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 104    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 108    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 112    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 116    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 132    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 136    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 140    A Band, RADAR Sensitive

I had a different router which had country NL and it was able to select channels 120-128.
So not sure why Asus can't. Any hints?..

 

[drinkingbird]

Hi all,

I live in Netherlands and bough RT-AC86U there. However, the country code it advertises is DE (Germany).
Probably, as both are in EU I assume it should not matter.

The issue is, I'm unable to select channels 120/124/128:

View attachment 49971

It means I can't use one 80 Mhz band, as only 116 is available.

According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels#5_GHz_(802.11a/h/j/n/ac/ax) channels 120-128 are allowed for Europe.
I also checked logs to see if those channels were disabled due to DFS/Radar, could not find anything relevant:

SSID: "..."
noise: -87 dBm    Channel: 100/80
BSSID: ...    Capability: ESS RRM
Supported Rates: [ 6(b) 9 12(b) 18 24(b) 36 48 54 ]
VHT Capable:
    Chanspec: 5GHz channel 106 80MHz (0xe06a)
    Primary channel: 100
    HT Capabilities:
    Supported HT MCS : 0-31
    Supported VHT MCS:
        NSS1 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11    
        NSS2 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11    
        NSS3 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11    
        NSS4 Tx: 0-11        Rx: 0-11    

Interference Level: Acceptable
Mode    : AP Only

DFS status: state In-Service Monitoring(ISM) time elapsed 1461450ms radar channel cleared by DFS channel 100/80 (0xE06A)

Channel Information                   
----------------------------------------
Channel 36    A Band
Channel 40    A Band
Channel 44    A Band
Channel 48    A Band
Channel 52    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 56    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 60    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 64    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 100    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 104    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 108    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 112    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 116    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 132    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 136    A Band, RADAR Sensitive
Channel 140    A Band, RADAR Sensitive

I had a different router which had country NL and it was able to select channels 120-128.
So not sure why Asus can't. Any hints?..

I believe there have been similar discussions here where the use of those bands has been fairly recently allowed and the older AC Asus routers do not have that update in them. I think even some of the AX are missing them.

But they are DFS channels anyway, something you want to avoid using if possible, and that range includes weather radar in the US (not sure about EU) which you definitely want to avoid. 36-48 is the best one but I'm assuming that is fairly congested (may still be fine though, 5ghz doesn't travel very far, even if you see others using it). But you still have 2 other 80mhz options, they are DFS but they don't overlap weather radar at least.

 

[Tech9]

I'm unable to select channels 120/124/128

You don't want to select channels in so called TDWR range anyway (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar). It's used actively to detect dangerous for airplanes windshear conditions and has minimum 10min wait time requirement to return to this frequency after radar is cleared.

 

[relgames]

I believe there have been similar discussions here where the use of those bands has been fairly recently allowed and the older AC Asus routers do not have that update in them. I think even some of the AX are missing them.

But they are DFS channels anyway, something you want to avoid using if possible, and that range includes weather radar in the US (not sure about EU) which you definitely want to avoid. 36-48 is the best one but I'm assuming that is fairly congested (may still be fine though, 5ghz doesn't travel very far, even if you see others using it). But you still have 2 other 80mhz options, they are DFS but they don't overlap weather radar at least.

I guess that explains it, I bought it in 2018.

You don't want to select channels in so called TDWR range anyway (Terminal Doppler Weather Radar). It's used actively to detect dangerous for airplanes windshear conditions and has minimum 10min wait time requirement to return to this frequency after radar is cleared.

The reason I want to try all channels, my ISP recently bumped speed to 600 Mbit, but I hardly get 600 on 5 Ghz when it's conflicting with other APs.

So I'm experimenting and trying different channels. I'm reaching 500-550 on averge, and saw 600 once:

relgames@diskstation:~$ iperf -V -c fe80::18fe:3e03:6f3f:3bdb -p 8081 -t 600 -i 60
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to fe80::18fe:3e03:6f3f:3bdb, TCP port 8081
TCP window size: 90.0 KByte (default)
------------------------------------------------------------
[  3] local fe80::211:32ff:fe9d:ba4d port 44838 connected with fe80::18fe:3e03:6f3f:3bdb port 8081
[ ID] Interval       Transfer     Bandwidth
[  3]  0.0-60.0 sec  3.61 GBytes   517 Mbits/sec
[  3] 60.0-120.0 sec  3.89 GBytes   557 Mbits/sec
[  3] 120.0-180.0 sec  3.93 GBytes   562 Mbits/sec
[  3] 180.0-240.0 sec  3.93 GBytes   563 Mbits/sec
[  3] 240.0-300.0 sec  4.73 GBytes   677 Mbits/sec
[  3] 300.0-360.0 sec  4.75 GBytes   680 Mbits/sec
[  3] 360.0-420.0 sec  4.03 GBytes   576 Mbits/sec
[  3] 420.0-480.0 sec  4.45 GBytes   638 Mbits/sec
[  3] 480.0-540.0 sec  4.57 GBytes   654 Mbits/sec
[  3] 540.0-600.0 sec  4.30 GBytes   616 Mbits/sec
[  3]  0.0-600.1 sec  42.2 GBytes   604 Mbits/sec

Maybe it's time to upgrade the router.

I tried Keenetic Hero which supports more channels, it was able to pick 116-128 fine, but indeed it took quite long to select them.
Yet after playing with it for a couple of weeks, trying different channels and router location, the speed was worse on average (400-450 Mbit) so I went back to testing Asus.

 

[Tech9]

but I hardly get 600 on 5 Ghz

Your 600Mbps is more than what you can expect from AC-class router and common 2-stream clients. You can't get any better.

when it's conflicting with other APs

No, it isn't. Available bandwidth counts and not how many other APs you see around. Also, 5GHz band is relatively short range.

 

[drinkingbird]

I guess that explains it, I bought it in 2018.


The reason I want to try all channels, my ISP recently bumped speed to 600 Mbit, but I hardly get 600 on 5 Ghz when it's conflicting with other APs.

So I'm experimenting and trying different channels. I'm reaching 500-550 on averge, and saw 600 once:

relgames@diskstation:~$ iperf -V -c fe80::18fe:3e03:6f3f:3bdb -p 8081 -t 600 -i 60
------------------------------------------------------------
Client connecting to fe80::18fe:3e03:6f3f:3bdb, TCP port 8081
TCP window size: 90.0 KByte (default)
------------------------------------------------------------
[  3] local fe80::211:32ff:fe9d:ba4d port 44838 connected with fe80::18fe:3e03:6f3f:3bdb port 8081
[ ID] Interval       Transfer     Bandwidth
[  3]  0.0-60.0 sec  3.61 GBytes   517 Mbits/sec
[  3] 60.0-120.0 sec  3.89 GBytes   557 Mbits/sec
[  3] 120.0-180.0 sec  3.93 GBytes   562 Mbits/sec
[  3] 180.0-240.0 sec  3.93 GBytes   563 Mbits/sec
[  3] 240.0-300.0 sec  4.73 GBytes   677 Mbits/sec
[  3] 300.0-360.0 sec  4.75 GBytes   680 Mbits/sec
[  3] 360.0-420.0 sec  4.03 GBytes   576 Mbits/sec
[  3] 420.0-480.0 sec  4.45 GBytes   638 Mbits/sec
[  3] 480.0-540.0 sec  4.57 GBytes   654 Mbits/sec
[  3] 540.0-600.0 sec  4.30 GBytes   616 Mbits/sec
[  3]  0.0-600.1 sec  42.2 GBytes   604 Mbits/sec

Maybe it's time to upgrade the router.

I tried Keenetic Hero which supports more channels, it was able to pick 116-128 fine, but indeed it took quite long to select them.
Yet after playing with it for a couple of weeks, trying different channels and router location, the speed was worse on average (400-450 Mbit) so I went back to testing Asus.

That's perfectly good speed for 80mhz AC wifi to a 2 stream (867mbit) client, even without any neighboring networks. If you want sustained speeds above that, upgrade to AX, you get more throughput with the same channel width (and may get more channels too). Or you could try to find a 4 stream AC client adapter. If you go to AX, I would stick with 80mhz though, 160 is going to be a big challenge in the EU. Or you could go to AXe and use the 6ghz spectrum which probably has hardly anyone on it (assuming that spectrum is available over there?).

If you want to spend money, go for it, but if you're sustaining 500mbit over wifi on a 600M internet connection, I'd call that more than close enough. Look at it this way, your wifi is a sort of forced QoS so you do not saturate your internet connection resulting in buffer bloat and issues for anything else connected to it.

It looks like your iperf is getting over 600 more frequently than it is getting in the 500s, so that's very good performance from AC 2 stream. If you mean you don't always get full 600 on ISP speed tests, that is not abnormal. If they are setting you to 600 you'll get around 95% of that at most (some will set you to 5 to 10% above to compensate for that though). Plus you're sharing bandwidth with neighbors, etc.

 

[Tech9]

Maybe it's time to upgrade the router.

You have to upgrade your clients as well. AX-class router to AX clients @80MHz wide channel can do about 850Mbps short range.

 

[ColinTaylor]

I guess that explains it, I bought it in 2018.

It probably goes without saying, but make sure you're running a recent version of the firmware. There have been rare instances of those channels being added back in even though they may have been excluded in the original firmware.

 

[Tech9]

I guess that explains it, I bought it in 2018.

Oh... the Burning Man Edition. Upgrade to something like RT-AX86U (Pro) or better as soon as you get a chance.

 

[relgames]

No, it isn't. Available bandwidth counts and not how many other APs you see around. Also, 5GHz band is relatively short range.

I thought if there are other APs on same channels, the speed goes down, as they have to share the frequencies.
The router is 3m away from my work laptop, with almost direct visibility.

It looks like your iperf is getting over 600 more frequently than it is getting in the 500s, so that's very good performance from AC 2 stream. If you mean you don't always get full 600 on ISP speed tests, that is not abnormal. If they are setting you to 600 you'll get around 95% of that at most (some will set you to 5 to 10% above to compensate for that though). Plus you're sharing bandwidth with neighbors, etc.

Right, to rule out ISP, I was running iperf from NAS connected to Asus via LAN, and then to my laptop over WiFi, and most of the time I saw 500-550 MBit, and just once I saw 600 over 10 minute period.
Which, I'm starting to understand, is not bad for AC.

It probably goes without saying, but make sure you're running a recent version of the firmware. There have been rare instances of those channels being added back in even though they may have been excluded in the original firmware.

Yes, it is stock 3.0.0.4.386_51529 which is latest.

Oh... the Burning Man Edition. Upgrade to something like RT-AX86U (Pro) or better as soon as you get a chance.

Heh yeah it's working mostly fine since 2018, just have to reboot it once in a while.

 

[drinkingbird]

I thought if there are other APs on same channels, the speed goes down, as they have to share the frequencies.
The router is 3m away from my work laptop, with almost direct visibility.

Yes and no. Wifi has come a long way and APs can share spectrum and make use of available bandwidth within a channel. And since 5ghz is such short range, the interference from neighbors is a lot less than it was with 2.4 so it has a lot less impact. I believe @Tech9 was also making the point that just seeing other networks is nowhere near the full picture. You could have one range with 50 neighboring networks in it that will perform better than one with none in it, since that second range has a ton of interference from radar or some other source (which is why nobody is using it), and/or the people on the first range are not doing heavy internet use (just because you choose an 80mhz channel, doesn't mean you're using 80mhz of bandwidth constantly). Of course if you can find an 80mhz block with no DFS and no neighboring networks, that would be great and may sustain 600M or even 650. But that's not practical, especially in your situation.

Right, to rule out ISP, I was running iperf from NAS connected to Asus via LAN, and then to my laptop over WiFi, and most of the time I saw 500-550 MBit, and just once I saw 600 over 10 minute period.
Which, I'm starting to understand, is not bad for AC.

Yes, quite good actually, especially considering the limited bandwidth/channels you have there.

 

[relgames]

Almost forgot, I also tried those channels as it looks like higher channels have higher transmission power.
I use WiFi Explorer and it says that channels >100 have 30 dBm while 36-64 have 23 dBm.

Indeed, when I change the channel to 100, I can see Signal level goes up on the laptop, so it might mean better coverage in the whole flat.

 

[Tech9]

I thought if there are other APs on same channels, the speed goes down, as they have to share the frequencies.

This is not how Wi-Fi works. They share the bandwidth.

so it might mean better coverage in the whole flat.

If you have enough coverage on 36-48 - this is the better range outside of DFS.

 

[drinkingbird]

Almost forgot, I also tried those channels as it looks like higher channels have higher transmission power.
I use WiFi Explorer and it says that channels >100 have 30 dBm while 36-64 have 23 dBm.

View attachment 49973

Indeed, when I change the channel to 100, I can see Signal level goes up on the laptop, so it might mean better coverage in the whole flat.

That fairly small increase in power can easily be negated by the effects of radar in your area, or the increased noise that higher power brings with it. I'd prioritize the channel with better throughput over one with higher power (or if it happens to be the same, great). Just keep in mind with DFS, you could find your wifi offline for a few minutes, or your channel getting reduced to 40mhz or 20mhz, or even big fluctuations in speed depending on time of day. If 36-40 are working and giving you good speeds throughout your place, stick with that.

 

[relgames]

Upgrade to something like RT-AX86U (Pro) or better as soon as you get a chance.

I was actually thinking to upgrade, but was not sure to which one.

Before AC86U I had N86U and the signal was not strong enough and my phone was not connecting to 5Ghz in the bedroom.
AC86U does not have that issue, 5GHz signal is strong enough in the whole flat.

Also tried Keenetic Hero and it has the same issue, 5GHz is not strong enough in the bedroom, plus the connection is slower even when the router is 2 meters away in direct visibility.