Voxel To unregistered readers of SNB forums

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Voxel

Part of the Furniture
Out of routers theme. Rather moral/ethical/culture. Really not related to SNB but.

There are at least three very popular and important projects published in this forum: Voxel FW, kamoj add-on, Aegis. There are a lot of people who are reading this forum offline. But who are using the result of these projects.

Well. Do you all (offline readers) understand that we all are working for you as well, you successfully use the result of our really hard work made by us for free. I do not force all of you to donate us, continue to use our work for free, it is normal, but why the hell you are not able to spend 5 min of your time to register here and to push the [Like] button what means just “thank you”?!! It is just worldwide practice and culture to say “thank you” to someone who helps you. Worldwide moral/ethical/culture. Your likes do not bring us any profits but the moral satisfaction.

Hello China. Hello India. Hello Russia. US/EU as well. kamoj is already thinking that his add-on is not needed and is not used by people. The total amount of “likes” on his thread “Kamoj Add-on Beta testing” is 12. The total amount of “likes” of Aegis 1.7.x is 4. The total amount of ORBI RBK 10SF-HW “Likes” is 8 in the spite of a lot of downloads (since 26th of Feb). The total amount of R9000 49HF “likes” is 7. Go ahead “offline guys”, continue your silence. We are working hard for 39 guys. For free. And what? Should we stop? Use the official stock firmware made by NG/DNI. Damn.

I appreciate users who are registering here just to only say “thank you”. Permanent active users who are not so lazy as you to post “thank you”. But wake up other Ladies and Gentlemen, users of R7800/R8900/R9000/ORBI. Users of kmoj add-on and Aegis. Support at least kamoj and HELLO_wORLD spending 5 min of your time.


Voxel.
 

OzarkEdge

Part of the Furniture
You build it, you give it away, end of story. It's a thankless proposition.

If you believe in your work, you should trust that it is appreciated.

If you resent low/no response to your work, you should probably do something more rewarding for yourself.

OE
 

microchip

Very Senior Member
If there's something left over in my PayPal, no matter how little, I usually donate it to Voxel
 

Wistuplu

Regular Contributor
Dear Voxel,

I never used your firmware but as you described the thread as "moral/ethical/culture", let me give you a point of view from my own age group, culture etc.

I value a lot some "free" "products" and I make/made small donations to many of them (for instance Wikimedia, Mozilla, RMerlin, JackYaz, KDE, XFCE).

But it never occurred to me that logging in on the forum and clicking "like" would make a difference. Also, unless I had issues, I would typically stick to the "official" site (e.g. of Merlin) and not pay attention to any forum. By the way, I have just one router at home, so I would typically stay away from Beta releases (I'm running a Merlin beta now as a rare exception to the rule ;-) ).

The way I see it, the downloads by themselves are already a testimony of the interest and trust that users put in your "product". Ultimately, with or without likes, it's your call to assess whether this activity is ultimately rewarding for you (for instance as a way to express your talent, creativity etc) or not.

Best wishes
Wistuplu
 

Voxel

Part of the Furniture
If you resent low/no response to your work, you should probably do something more rewarding for yourself.

Thank you for for re-discovering America. I do not talk regarding myself. Please check this post:

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/kamoj-add-on-beta-testing.67375/post-674073

what still gets a rise out of me.

Sorry but as a rule I know what I do rewarding myself and what I'll do. My post is related to normal human relationships. As I see them. No offences OK?


It is hardly to believe that doing so will stop people from China
Thank you but I pointed almost all countries in the world. No any special attention to Chinese people. Just a lot of people. The same for example for Australia and Africa.

If there's something left over in my PayPal, no matter how little, I usually donate it to Voxel
Thank you @microchip but I had in mean usual "thank you". For example your post

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/custom-firmware-build-for-r7800-v-1-0-2-83sf.71083/post-672382

is much more important.

Also, unless I had issues, I would typically stick to the "official" site (e.g. of Merlin) and not pay attention to any forum.

Thank you. So you would not see this my thread right? This thread for offline readers.

P.S.

I think that normal people should always say "thank you" for any help. Not donations, but words.

Voxel.
 

OzarkEdge

Part of the Furniture
My post is related to normal human relationships. As I see them. No offences OK?

No offense taken.

As I see it, so-called normal human relationships develop over time in the presence of necessary elements. When those elements are not present, I would not expect normal human relationships. And even when they are, having expectations can always be disappointing. In this environment, I suggest it is healthier to have no expectations... nor pronounced judgment. Not always easy to do without a lot of practice.

OE
 

HELLO_wORLD

Very Senior Member
I totally agree.

1) no expectations for free and given work, yes

But

2) it is never a bad thing to remind people sometimes about politeness, respect, appreciation, being thankful...



The world has never enough Empathy, Compassion, Kindness and Goodwill. These values are disappearing. Thank you @Voxel to care about those values and to be idealist (as I am), knowing we can actively work in making a better world, starting with positive words and attitude, setting an example and showing it works. :)


I did aegis for myself at first, and decided to share it if it could help others. Then, users asked for features, etc. that I don’t need for myself or for platforms I don’t own.. and gladly worked on that, liking the challenge and to help and the appreciation for my work.
I spent a lot of time in this, and received 2 donations. I have a little over 20 unique calculated users, mostly from US, then Europe, and one in Asia (Singapore). I received many thanks and help to debug in setups different than mine, and I really appreciate this feedback and feedback. A lot of good people.
 

Wistuplu

Regular Contributor
My post is related to normal human relationships.
Hello again,

Very interesting thread actually. I guess that, with online "stuff", it's easy to forget "normal human relationships". Even more so when sometimes we deal with videos that are viewed by 100.000s persons and receive 1000s comments, or products that are produced by huge teams.

Thank you for the reminder that "normal human relationships" can apply to "human-sized" projects, even when it's all in the web.

And thank you for giving us options in the router's firmware realm.

Best regards
W.

PS: I had a R7800 for a few weeks. The Netgear firmware lacked features in my eyes; and OpenWRT was too much work. Maybe I should have tried yours ;-) I eventually went back to Asus/Merlin.
 

Wallace_n_Gromit

Senior Member
You build it, you give it away, end of story. It's a thankless proposition.

If you believe in your work, you should trust that it is appreciated.

If you resent low/no response to your work, you should probably do something more rewarding for yourself.

OE
It is a bit worrisome though, that people/entities who do largely thankless jobs, yet who provide a critical underlying component to our modern information infrastructure can one day, just throw in the towel (no more updates or maintenance); or even worse, get an offer to buy their work/development platform by an unknown third party who just might have less than honorable intentions.
 

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Voxel

Part of the Furniture
Very interesting thread actually

It's good @Wistuplu. We have time-to-time to stir up a hornet's nest. To avoid the indifferentism during these damn COVID times.

PS: I had a R7800 for a few weeks. The Netgear firmware lacked features in my eyes; and OpenWRT was too much work. Maybe I should have tried yours ;-) I eventually went back to Asus/Merlin.
Absolute personal respect to Merlin. Exactly his work pushed me to start with all of this. You can try of course my build plus Entware if you are missing something.

Voxel.
 

OzarkEdge

Part of the Furniture
It is a bit worrisome though, that people/entities who do largely thankless jobs, yet who provide a critical underlying component to our modern information infrastructure can one day, just throw in the towel (no more updates or maintenance); or even worse, get an offer to buy their work/development platform by an unknown third party who just might have less than honorable intentions.

I have not found third party router firmware to be necessary... perhaps it is nice, but it is not necessary. If it were necessary, that would be a problem in and of itself.

OE
 

Voxel

Part of the Furniture
I have not found third party router firmware to be necessary... perhaps it is nice, but it is not necessary. If it were necessary, that would be a problem in and of itself.

OE
Yeah. Routers are like micro-computers. Some computer manufacturers suggest to buy their PC with preinstalled DOS (could be pretty cheap because of DOS only). And someone could be happy to only run his old favorite "digger" game on such PC. But someone needs to run e.g. MS Office, Flight Simulators etc. But all of this is not necessary for digger users.

So everything depends on the expectations of router's owners.

Voxel.
 

Jauger

Occasional Visitor
I find Voxel Firmware, Kamoj Add-on and Aegis to be very necessary. It gives our routers a level of security that should make Netgear ashamed of their lackluster software. As my R9000 nears EOL I'm worried about what devices these 3 outstanding developers will take their talents to next (hopefully the same router)
 

OzarkEdge

Part of the Furniture
I find Voxel Firmware, Kamoj Add-on and Aegis to be very necessary. It gives our routers a level of security that should make Netgear ashamed of their lackluster software. As my R9000 nears EOL I'm worried about what devices these 3 outstanding developers will take their talents to next (hopefully the same router)


The developers want you to 'Like' their release posts to let them know that you care.

OE
 
Last edited:

Paul Connolly

Occasional Visitor
Yeah. Routers are like micro-computers. Some computer manufacturers suggest to buy their PC with preinstalled DOS (could be pretty cheap because of DOS only). And someone could be happy to only run his old favorite "digger" game on such PC. But someone needs to run e.g. MS Office, Flight Simulators etc. But all of this is not necessary for digger users.

So everything depends on the expectations of router's owners.

Voxel.
Hi Voxel well explained in my case sadly my R9000 has finally died after being dropped by removing company
What are the next generation devices you are looking at?
rax 200 ? XR 1000?
thanks
 

digital10

Regular Contributor
@Voxel

you have a very skewed vision of the online community. You are living in a bubble. Here everyone is polite and giving likes. Out there, people bully you for being friendly.

I agree, if someone does work and people take it and use it without even saying a thank you he feels his work is unappreciated and this stops working on it to their dismay. If no body cares, why bother? right?

unfortunately the online world works by people logging in, taking stuff for free, not even double thinking how this even came to be. They just look at it like a machine doing its work.

They don't say thank you to the TV when it switches channels, they don't say thank you to the oven when it heats food. They do not say thank you to the computer that gives them software.
 

HELLO_wORLD

Very Senior Member
@Voxel

you have a very skewed vision of the online community. You are living in a bubble. Here everyone is polite and giving likes. Out there, people bully you for being friendly.

I agree, if someone does work and people take it and use it without even saying a thank you he feels his work is unappreciated and this stops working on it to their dismay. If no body cares, why bother? right?

unfortunately the online world works by people logging in, taking stuff for free, not even double thinking how this even came to be. They just look at it like a machine doing its work.

They don't say thank you to the TV when it switches channels, they don't say thank you to the oven when it heats food. They do not say thank you to the computer that gives them software.
You are right! do we want to don’t care about this, or would we prefer if such people would be a little more awake to their humanity (for their own sake and happiness)?

A machine needs energy and maintenance. For us developers of free software, it is appreciation (just a thank you), respect, donations, participation (even just acknowledgment). The machine could break and then the free stuff is gone, leaving users with NG firmware and

Of course, there will always be the selfish ones, the bullies, the ones just taking free stuff without wanting to waste their time just saying thank you. But do we want to promote that attitude or sometimes remind, like @Voxel did, about politeness and respect? Aren’t our parents teaching these values to us when we are kids? Don’t we teach these values to our own kids? If so, why wouldn’t wish the same values for anyone else? Do we want more or less bullies and cold people in this world?

I don’t thank my tablet or my fridge, but I respect them by taking good care of them, keeping them clean, maintained...
I do also from time to time have a thought about the employees who made our devices, the inventors, etc... being thankful for their work.

It does not cost anything, and it brings me joy and happiness. Win win.
 

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