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Voxel To unregistered readers of SNB forums

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I have mixed feelings about this. Myself I have donated a small amount to Voxel after using excellent firmware for my R7800 for over a year now. Interestingly I bought it off ebay and the seller listed it with Voxel firmware preinstalled. Prior to that I didn’t know about it and looked it up found it on here.

Getting the R7800 was a decision I made after reading the 2016 review of it on the SnB main site and then when I found these forum I thought it was interesting to me to see what other people had to say. Other people, who unlike me, have very advanced knowledge and use the router for things I would consider enthusiast level. I use my router as a router; a means to get connection to the internet and very little else. Still, I like the idea that I’m using a device that is good for this, offers me the best speeds and is secure and updated etc.

At one point I noticed a user of Voxel FW who’d posted a question and after they did not get the answer they wanted said they weren’t going to use the FW anymore. In this respect I agree with the concept posed by this topic. That person was unreasonable and entitled. How dare they make use of something provided for free and without any strings attached and have no patience and believe they should get tailored customer support. I think entitlement is very much the issue here and is a trait endemic to the population and modern society as it is now.

With that said, I’m not sure it’s reasonable to expect or assume mass engagement of a user base via a forum such as this. With the best intent - a lot of them, perhaps even the majority - will not know of its existence. Even if they do, there is little to no incentive for them to join as they may not realise the people behind these great projects are active in engaging with the community. You must admit that this is often not the case? The three devs referred to here are, in their respective contexts, celebrity almost. What other devs of software have such direct and open communication with their users? Genuine question because I do not know.

What others have said here about not having expectations is I think right. Right as in what the truth is, which is that good work on passion projects is often thankless despite the benefit and value it bestows. Do I think that is morally right? No. But the ideal and the truth are rarely so ever the same so it is more about realism than idealism, sadly.

In close I would say that I am very grateful for the work that you all do and hope that you continue your efforts. There are surely many more who may be silent but who also are grateful in their way but you will never know.
 
@SteevieWeevie well said.

I think that for silent users that are using the firmware without really knowing they do (install and forget about it), it is very understandable that we don’t see them much or at all around here. They are likely not aware of how it works, what it does, etc...

However, users that are using the firmware for their specific needs, because it allows their network to be more reliable, because they can use features that NG firmware does not enable, etc. should be more aware and thankful, because @Voxel .s free and hard work is fulfilling their needs, and without his work, they could not do what they want, or would have to get another router or make a firmware themselves.
It is in that category of users that appears sometimes entitled users, demanding and rude, and we don’t have to accept that.
Of course, I personally find a lot of users here are nice, respectful and helpful.

Now about realism vs idealism...
I don’t oppose these concepts. Realism is where we are; Idealism is where we want to go, what we should lean towards as a compass.

Reality: I was having a great router with a wonderful firmware. I was looking for a blocklist system like FireHOL, but it did not exist.

Idea: I though of making my own script, and then share it. I named it aegis.
 
@SteevieWeevie

Now about realism vs idealism...
I don’t oppose these concepts. Realism is where we are; Idealism is where we want to go, what we should lean towards as a compass.

Reality: I was having a great router with a wonderful firmware. I was looking for a blocklist system like FireHOL, but it did not exist.

Idea: I though of making my own script, and then share it. I named it aegis.
Lol I was thinking more like:

Idea: A skilled and passionate individual uses their own time and creates a work that makes a product more functional and objectively better and more valuable. The individual shares this work, making it available without charge to whosoever should wish to use it. The individuals pay in thanks and gratitude and take a moment of their time to recognise how they benefit from the fruit of another’s labours.

Reality: We live in a fast paced, capitalistic, callous, decentralised, anonymous world where life is cheap, you take what you can and most are concerned only about themselves. They see something for free. It’s better. It’s more functional and most importantly is there for the taking. More likely than not there will be no shred of thought spared for who made it, their motivations or thanking them. They have what they need, now move on to their next need, so on and so forth.

Yes, this I know is very cynical. Every person has inside them the capacity for good will, patience, respect, kindness etc. Most wrong or evil of individuals is a product of personal circumstances, environment and socioeconomic factors. Most are not innately bad. It’s just that people in general don’t stop to think for long enough to realise any of it and that isn’t likely to change anytime soon. If anything I would expect it gets worse.

Now I should remember that this SnB forum not for philosophy!
 
Hey Voxel and other valuable community members,

A silent follower here who, after seeing this post, immediately made an account.
You're absolutely right and I'm sorry for being silent here.

Your work here is amazing and has kept me from ditching the R7800.
Since upgrading the R7800 has been nothing but speedy and reliable.

I'll be following your work less silently from now on!

Cheers,
Remy
 
Thank all of you. I do not need any additional [Likes]. Goal of this thread is to do not see such messages:

But Voxel convinced me I should publish my "thing".
It's 2 years ago, and it became my hobby.
I guess it was wrong of me. I should have stayed back.
Where I come from there is a saying, "trees are not allowed to reach the sky".
Sutor, ne ultra crepidam.

Sorry to "everyone" feeling offended.
I'm of course only happy if someone use the useless add-on, think nothing else.
20000 Voxel users, 40 add-on users.
Not much to discuss, is it?

In all, I beg your pardon, despondently yours.

and to support other guys here. kamoj and HELLO_wORLD for example.

I already have thousands of downloads (==users) and thousands of [Likes].

Very short remark to this post:

you have a very skewed vision of the online community. You are living in a bubble. Here everyone is polite and giving likes.

I repeat:
It is just worldwide practice and culture to say “thank you” to someone who helps you.

but not only to register to report the issue. I do not force anybody and you to say "thank you" to you to microwave oven of coffee maker or your ORBI. But we are not fridges or TV. We are people.

I do not have any intention to teach anybody. It is enough and well said:


Aren’t our parents teaching these values to us when we are kids? Don’t we teach these values to our own kids?

P.S.
And:

you have a very skewed vision of the online community. You are living in a bubble. Here everyone is polite and giving likes.
It is wrong. I have not only polite messages and likes. Check e.g. this post:


other forum, but anyway.

I think that people who just silently use results of the work of developers here are living in a bubble. But not we are. Normal life (w/o any access to Internet and forums is to say “thank you” to someone who helps you.


Voxel.
 
Last edited:
Thank all of you. I do not need any additional [Likes]. Goal of this thread is to do not see such messages:



and to support other guys here. kamoj and HELLO_wORLD for example.

I already have thousands of downloads (==users) and thousands of [Likes].

Very short remark to this post:



I repeat:


but not only to register to report the issue. I do not force anybody and you to say "thank you" to you to microwave oven of coffee maker or your ORBI. But we are not fridges or TV. We are people.

I do not have any intention to teach anybody. It is enough and well said:




P.S.
And:


It is wrong. I have not only polite messages and likes. Check e.g. this post:


other forum, but anyway.

I think that people who just silently use results of the work of developers here are living in a bubble. But not we are. Normal life (w/o any access to Internet and forums is to say “thank you” to someone who helps you.


Voxel.

you are correct, but people online actually do think this is just a coffee machine and real world etiquette does not apply. I myself have been downloading free software off the net and using websites without double thinking about where it comes from. Just like the millions of people who use Wikipedia and never say thank you to the editors and writers of those articles. They just take it for granted that it exists somehow.

Only later when I found online that developers of free software join forum communities and respond to users, and that the team behind it is just few individuals working on their own. I always imagined there is some big corporate behind it like Canonical for Ubuntu, and that is the image in the mind of most internet users.
 
Why can we only "Like" once per post?:cool:
I would like to have, say 10 free Likes per day to use! Some postings are worth more than one Like! :D
Compare "Thank you" to "Thank you very much".
Thank all of you. I do not need any additional [Likes]. Goal of this thread is to do not see such messages:



and to support other guys here. kamoj and HELLO_wORLD for example.

I already have thousands of downloads (==users) and thousands of [Likes].

Very short remark to this post:



I repeat:


but not only to register to report the issue. I do not force anybody and you to say "thank you" to you to microwave oven of coffee maker or your ORBI. But we are not fridges or TV. We are people.

I do not have any intention to teach anybody. It is enough and well said:




P.S.
And:


It is wrong. I have not only polite messages and likes. Check e.g. this post:


other forum, but anyway.

I think that people who just silently use results of the work of developers here are living in a bubble. But not we are. Normal life (w/o any access to Internet and forums is to say “thank you” to someone who helps you.


Voxel.
 
A bit off topic here, but has anyone here consider going open source like Merlin, unless it is somehow restricted by Netgear? Or maybe you already did, I don't know. I believe it would receive more public reception. For certain, I know free software isn't FOSS. I also knows there are free software projects where contributors have been working on for years or even a decade but still refuse to go open source due to reasons.

Being a FOSS contributor myself, I also agree with what OE said. The interaction rate indeed can make me feel happy, but I will never consider someone who uses my work without giving any form of attribution, like, etc morally/ethically/culturally wrong (unless it is explicitly requires in LICENSE, well then it's also more on a legal side too). Still, that's only my own opinion. For a debatable topic like this, I think it is enough to have several research papers to write on this matter.

In my opinion, if something is posted on a forum nowadays, then inherently it will receive low interaction rate. Some big-active forums/community might be an exception (E.g: Reddit), but I would say ours is not in that category. Besides, not sure if you're aware of this, but let's say we have 1000 users from all over the world. 200 of them can be a non-English speaker, so they don't even understand what you said. They can figure out the way to download your work via multiple methods (E.g: Someone post your works in their own language on a foreign forum -> users go straight to download site while not aware of SNBforums and so on). Certainly, asking for a "like" from these users is a no-go.
 
I believe @Voxel firmwares are under Open Sourced, under the GNU GPL 2.
For R7800 for example: https://github.com/SVoxel/R7800/blob/master/LICENSE

I did not understand that he asked all users to post a like, but more that he reminded to the ones who could that it would be nice to be thankful (without expectation).

I think you are making a big point with foreign language users not even aware of this forum (or not understanding it), but again, I think Voxel would not expect them to do so. I would not either.

IMHO, as I wrote earlier, I think that people who directly benefit from his work, and are intentionally installing his firmware to solve a problem or setup should (again should, not have to) be thankful ; more than an average Joe user that one days installs it because he read that it is more stable (and who does not know much about computer science, routers, networking and this forum...).

It is indeed a moral and philosophical debate that is way broader than these firmwares.
Legally speaking, it is the license that matters, no doubts.

But I think @Voxel intentions here were simply to remind people to be kind and nice, because frankly, things are better for everyone when people are more tolerant and less selfish, starting with themselves.

A bit off topic here, but has anyone here consider going open source like Merlin, unless it is somehow restricted by Netgear? Or maybe you already did, I don't know. I believe it would receive more public reception. For certain, I know free software isn't FOSS. I also knows there are free software projects where contributors have been working on for years or even a decade but still refuse to go open source due to reasons.

Being a FOSS contributor myself, I also agree with what OE said. The interaction rate indeed can make me feel happy, but I will never consider someone who uses my work without giving any form of attribution, like, etc morally/ethically/culturally wrong (unless it is explicitly requires in LICENSE, well then it's also more on a legal side too). Still, that's only my own opinion. For a debatable topic like this, I think it is enough to have several research papers to write on this matter.

In my opinion, if something is posted on a forum nowadays, then inherently it will receive low interaction rate. Some big-active forums/community might be an exception (E.g: Reddit), but I would say ours is not in that category. Besides, not sure if you're aware of this, but let's say we have 1000 users from all over the world. 200 of them can be a non-English speaker, so they don't even understand what you said. They can figure out the way to download your work via multiple methods (E.g: Someone post your works in their own language on a foreign forum -> users go straight to download site while not aware of SNBforums and so on). Certainly, asking for a "like" from these users is a no-go.
 
Hello Voxel I want to say that I appreciate your work on custom firmware for the R7800. I have used your firmware almost since I bought the router.

Now as for your post, I am not the person that will sign up to a forum just to post thanks. I sign up when I need support or to ask a question. I already have hundreds of logins across numerous sites and I prefer not creating even more accounts unless absolutely necessary. I am not purposely doing this to hurt you or to be selfish. I just do not rush to make accounts for every site I come across and read content on. I am sure I am not the only who thinks like this.
 
Hello Voxel I want to say that I appreciate your work on custom firmware for the R7800. I have used your firmware almost since I bought the router.

Now as for your post, I am not the person that will sign up to a forum just to post thanks. I sign up when I need support or to ask a question. I already have hundreds of logins across numerous sites and I prefer not creating even more accounts unless absolutely necessary. I am not purposely doing this to hurt you or to be selfish. I just do not rush to make accounts for every site I come across and read content on. I am sure I am not the only who thinks like this.
Thus, the goal of the thread is reached.

You were able to find your 5 min. to reply here. So... Please do not explain me that people do not have a time and wishes registering to say "thank you". I understand this. It is not for me. You were able to post here, right? So we've got your "thank you". Therefore the world could be changed.

Voxel.
 
Voxel, maybe I'm not a well trained social media user, but I want to ensure you that when I look for your updated firmware threads, and even download the firmware, and even post in a firmware topic with comments or questions, I may still forget to click the "like" button, even though I very much like your versions of the firmware. Every time.
 
You build it, you give it away, end of story. It's a thankless proposition.

If you believe in your work, you should trust that it is appreciated.

If you resent low/no response to your work, you should probably do something more rewarding for yourself.

OE
Dude, that was seriously uncalled for.
 
It is a bit worrisome though, that people/entities who do largely thankless jobs, yet who provide a critical underlying component to our modern information infrastructure can one day, just throw in the towel (no more updates or maintenance); or even worse, get an offer to buy their work/development platform by an unknown third party who just might have less than honorable intentions.
It has happened more than once.
A few years ago, someone pulled some bit of software that a lot of people made calls to and all of a sudden large parts of the internet stopped working, as the websites that made calls to the code, no longer worked.
 
Dude, you probably didn't understand it.

OE
I think the subject is less about wanting more thanks or resenting lack of it than about reminding people about being considerate, respectful and thankful.
It is about attitude, entitlement, selfishness, taking what is free without ever thinking of why and how it is available.

Smiling is not mandatory, but it is nicer when some one is smiling at you.
Being positive and thankful requires some effort, but it is rewarding.
Being negative is easy but is taking a toll on everyone (the negative persons and people around them).

Also, at some point, developers without much appreciation for their work might just stop. And the only way to know about appreciation is communication from users (thanks, thumb ups, comments...)
 
I think few understand the amount of time put into these projects by people like @Voxel and @HELLO_wORLD,
but coding and helping and answering questions.
Me myself have no idea either, but it must be a lot...

As comparison some Kamoj add-on statistics are as follows:
kamoj-addon_210409-013556-5.4b26_ipq806x.ipk contains 90 files with a total of 43253 lines
kamoj-addon_210409-013556-5.4b26_r9000.ipk contains 98 files with a total of 45407 lines
 

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