UK New 5ghz Channels

[wouterv]

Allright, it is all to Asus.
First question is which range of different regions Asus does support.
Next is if all those regions are correctly and "to the actual allowed maximum" are implemented, the Russia region setting seems to be the best you can wish
Finally the question is why routers in Russia are sold with restricted region Germany.

 

[princi]

How are Asus going to add support

All EU Devces are being sold region coded to Germany

MY RT-AC88U direct from amazon.co.uk has a DE region code

Haha! Even Asus is getting ready for Brexit!

 

[DrTeeth]

My N66U came with a non-existent EU locale, allowing only 3 out of many more legal %GHz channels. Asus chose thios route as it is easier for them. We all want to operate out routers to the maximum legally in our countries and Asus is not helping by crippling them to make their lives easier. If I would have received a DE router whilst not being in Germany, I would have returned it immediately.

 

[Shonk]

Its rather annoying asus need to add sub region selection for all hard coded DE routers asap

they also need to be replying to threads

 

[Shonk]

My N66U came with a non-existent EU locale, allowing only 3 out of many more legal %GHz channels. Asus chose thios route as it is easier for them. We all want to operate out routers to the maximum legally in our countries and Asus is not helping by crippling them to make their lives easier. If I would have received a DE router whilst not being in Germany, I would have returned it immediately.

My AC66U Was the same
I make no apologies for hacking my bootloader on it to open up the other legal channels in the uk
i didnt mess with tx power or add channels its not legal for me to use

If asus are going to be encrypting the bootloaders on newer devices they need to be supporting channels fully for each region

Oh btw the AC88U that's coded for germany
the box is for the uk and it also came with a uk power adapter

I bet the russian ones coded for germany are also boxed in russian packaging

This is a delib move by them germany has the most restrictive power requirements in the eu
so if they are legal there they are also legal in the rest of europe
but crippled

 

[john9527]

The last time I looked at the EU regs, what I took away was that the manufacturers could self-certify their products to a common set of regs (EU/DE), subject to spot check validation. If they wanted to certify to individual country regs, they had to negotiate and go through the certification process with each individual country they wanted to support..

If you were a manufacturer of consumer based products, which would you do?
How would you absorb the cost of individual country certifications where most of the purchases are price sensitive and most of the buyers don't know the difference?

 

[RMerlin]

f asus are going to be encrypting the bootloaders on newer devices they need to be supporting channels fully for each region

Broadcom decided to encrypt it, not Asus.

 

[Shonk]

The last time I looked at the EU regs, what I took away was that the manufacturers could self-certify their products to a common set of regs (EU/DE), subject to spot check validation. If they wanted to certify to individual country regs, they had to negotiate and go through the certification process with each individual country they wanted to support..

If you were a manufacturer of consumer based products, which would you do?
How would you absorb the cost of individual country certifications where most of the purchases are price sensitive and most of the buyers don't know the difference?

They self certify in the uk also
there's no lenghly process to go through

they just set the device to said region and ensure its compliant
just lazyness on the part of asus

 

[chrisnasah]

I take it there is no update on this as yet, will hold out before purchasing the device as I have an option of purchasing from here and the USA. At present it seems purchasing from the USA will not only be cheaper but also allow more channels which will soon be legal in UK too.

Not sure what the difference in power levels is between the two routers and whether it would be legal in UK.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

From what i understand ALL Asus routers no matter where you purchase them are locked to a max output of 80-100 mw.

 

[wouterv]

At least I won't blame Asus. Blame the lack of worldwide standardisation. Asus like the other router manufacturers have to balance between: commercial attractive products, open source need from people like us who participate in forums like this, and the stricter demand by different laws to lock "important" router features.
Wifi on 5GHz is a worldwide compromise, with Russia that seems the least restrictive.

 

[System Error Message]

I agree with some here that ASUS should unlock the channels that are used internationally like in EU for example. Even the US actually has way more channels available for 5Ghz unlicensed band (check wikipedia) so i dont know why manufacturers arent using them. I am very disappointed that ASUS despite advertising for performance and gaming isnt giving the means to actually benefit from it such as using channels that are still legal in the country that arent being utilised by other ISP given router manufacturers. Ive seen virgin media's channel selection and they use all the common channels from 36 to 136. The AC3200 thankfully offers that 5 upper channels that dont require DFS but the 2nd radio only does the lower 4 channels. AC88U only offers the same channels as virgin media superhub and channel 140. We need to have our premium products be able to use this unutilised but still legal channels as it means less interference and better performance.

I think ASUS and other manufacturers need to do what some non consumer wifi manufacturers do which is introduce international and region restricted. Region restricted being locked while international being unlocked. Take a look at mikrotik's recent wifi products and you will see US version and international version.

As regards to tx power i use 2.4Ghz on lowest setting (i set the tx bar to nothing in my asus router) and it works out well for me. I use highest setting for 5Ghz assuming it is 100mW and that too works well for me. It helps that there is no interference and that i have talked to my ISP that also has 2.4Ghz wifi all around explaining to them how to set their APs to higher wifi densities. When all APs in a small area tweak their settings only for the area they cover tx power becomes much less of a concern.

At the highest setting of 5Ghz it gets to the point where i can just see the signal of the AP but cant connect and this means the device i am using isnt strong enough to transmit back. So i suggest people stop complaining about tx power, when it comes to indoor they do fine, it is the point to point/directional and outdoor ones that differ in requirements. FCC rules also differ for directional output power. It is only when tx power maximum is below 100mW that you should start shouting at your router brand. Wifi today has improved quite a lot where what 100mW gives in in range today is equivalent to what 200mW or more last time gave. Even putting a 1W amplifier infront of your AP isnt going to help with wifi reception, all it does is make that amplified wifi spread further being more visible and clients would than disconnect when too far and the user not knowing whats going on as hes still going to see wifi signal but cant connect.

 

[Grisu]

When will Asus open the additional UK-channels?

In UK there is allowed to use 36-64, 100-144 and 149-165 since August 2017 without any licence!!!

What are they waiting for?
On my 68U with region unlocked I can use all of them, so it is for sure not a limitation by the device or hardware!

Only firmwares dont get any update to support all allowed channels.
Soon UK wont even be any longer in EU, so this arguement is broken.

@arthurlien
WHY?

Here some links to this:
https://www.silextechnology.com/unwired/changes-to-the-5ghz-wi-fi-band-in-the-uk
http://wifinigel.blogspot.com/2017/10/uk-5ghz-wlan-spectrum-allocation-august.html
http://wifinigel.blogspot.com/2018/05/updated-white-paper-on-license-exempt.html
http://bowdennetworks.co.uk/downloads/5GHz in the UK White Paper v3.0.pdf
http://bowdennetworks.co.uk/downloads/5GHz Spectrum Usage UK - 2017 - v1.pdf

 

[sfx2000]

When will Asus open the additional UK-channels?

In UK there is allowed to use 36-64, 100-144 and 149-165 since August 2017 without any licence!!!

What are they waiting for?
On my 68U with region unlocked I can use all of them, so it is for sure not a limitation by the device or hardware!

It's a regulatory thing - Asus would have to submit the devices for testing on the new channels - and testing is expensive and time consuming.

It's similar to the DFS and new power limits here in the US - for devices in development, probably, for existing devices in the field, likely not, even if the HW is capable...

 

[Grisu]

It's a regulatory thing - Asus would have to submit the devices for testing on the new channels - and testing is expensive and time consuming.
It's similar to the DFS and new power limits here in the US - for devices in development, probably, for existing devices in the field, likely not, even if the HW is capable...

and they could benefit of much more sold products if they can advertise them to use all allowed channels!

 

[Deleted member 22229]

Netgear supports the DFS channels.

 

[sfx2000]

and they could benefit of much more sold products if they can advertise them to use all allowed channels!

Not for product already sold - see my comment about items in development...

 

[sfx2000]

Netgear supports the DFS channels.

At a chip level, everyone supports all channels - but the regulatory is at the device level - so if they did the testing, and got approval, all good... otherwise, the OEM's are constrained to the certs at the time.

We've been through this over and over - I know it sucks, but a 5 year old router/AP isn't going to get new channels just because the regulatory items changed.

That's not how it works...

 

[drabisan]

Even at enterprise level the lag is huge.
One thing is to approve at regulatory level, another thing is to implement in firmware, submit for certification.
Few years ago Switzerland reduced the power on almost all channels. Took nearly a year for vendors to comply, although, in theory, they could be subject to a suit from regulator. Even today not all companies upgraded their controllers. Home user? Well...dream on Switzerland! Suit them!

A different story was in US, but that's a huge market! When they increased the power on virtually all channels, vendor adopted fairly soon, that is a big sale point/customer retention.

But let's set the expectations: UK is just another market. Splitting EU regulations to add UK with only one 80Hz channel (I can't find if maximum power was increased)...well, who cares?
If I'm thinking only at logistics troubles to add one channel to a market...I wouldn't do it!

Off topic: I wonder how much of that regulatory decision was based on a s..y Brexit?

 

[Grisu]

If I'm thinking only at logistics troubles to add one channel to a market...I wouldn't do it!
Off topic: I wonder how much of that regulatory decision was based on a s..y Brexit?

but all devices sold in UK are unique boxes as they need a different power plug which is not usable in rest of EU, so it should be easy to sell them proper devices.

Quite sure thats a result of Brexit, but so there is no advantage for UK if vendors dont open channels.