UPnP - Multiple Xbox One Gaming Consoles & NAT

[tcool93]

We have 3 Xbox One consoles and used to have problems joining the same team when all of us were playing Destiny. We fixed it by doing what Bungie recommended, by turning off NAT Hardware Acceleration in the router.

 

[Vexira]

What did you do or change that go you OPEN NAT on all of your gaming device?

Merlin 380.66 beta 4, then reboot the router.
It worked after my router lost connection with the ISP due to a dhcp lease renewal.
The port translated correctly for black ops 3 on my spare pc, need to test again today, after a reboot to confirm it's not a fluke.

 

[Vexira]

Make sure your local firewall isn't blocking incoming connections. Also, some applications that use UPnP require network discovery to be enabled.

MiniUPnP should work fine for multiple consoles. Some models have forwarding issues with NAT acceleration, so I would try disabling that if the forwarding rule fails to appear on the router.

Not the fire wall, if only one instance of a pc, that being a the first pc to launch black ops 3gets open nat. That's a miniupnp bug, I haven't even disabled hardware acceleration ctf is still on.
Read Merlins comics on git hub, it's miniupnp serving out.

As for gta v and modernwafare 3 both are exceptions in Windows firewall so their not being blocked.

 

[Vexira]

We have 3 Xbox One consoles and used to have problems joining the same team when all of us were playing Destiny. We fixed it by doing what Bungie recommended, by turning off NAT Hardware Acceleration in the router.

that didnt help in my case which router are you running.
beta 4 fixed the issue that was in my case the port or the second instance wasnt being translated correctly from internal to external, so a second copy of balck ops 3 would call for port 27017 internal but the external port given would be for eample port 37018 not 27104 which works since its on the required range. it also had issues redirecting the port if the one it need was in use eg if cod one on pc had port 3074 cod 2 on xbox would get moderate nat, but now it gets port 3076 and open nat

 

[RMerlin]

I'd be interested in getting more feedback regarding Beta 4 and UPNP issues. I did one change which shouldn't in theory have any impact, but there's still a possibility that it did. Basically, I'm now allowing miniupnpd to establish specific masquerade rules in front of the global masquerade rule that should normally be applied to ALL WAN traffic. It's possible I overlooked something and those rules are actually necessary.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Not all routers are able to disable HW acceleration.

Was OPEN NAT seen on the xbox dash board or as well as In Game?

What mfr and model router do you have? Running OEM or 3rd party FW?

I got 3 xbox1s OPEN NAT on the dash board and in Game BO3 using one particular brand of router using OEM FW.

We have 3 Xbox One consoles and used to have problems joining the same team when all of us were playing Destiny. We fixed it by doing what Bungie recommended, by turning off NAT Hardware Acceleration in the router.

 

[dsring]

I'd be interested in getting more feedback regarding Beta 4 and UPNP issues. I did one change which shouldn't in theory have any impact, but there's still a possibility that it did. Basically, I'm now allowing miniupnpd to establish specific masquerade rules in front of the global masquerade rule that should normally be applied to ALL WAN traffic. It's possible I overlooked something and those rules are actually necessary.

I have 2 PS4's and long-standing UPNP issues seem to be resolved with Beta 4. I am getting in-game Open NAT on BOTH consoles when playing Call of Duty Infinite Warfare. NAT Acceleration is enabled. I have never been able to achieve Open NAT on one game console let alone two consoles without using Port Forwarding. I am happy. Very good job, Merlin. I appreciate your work to resolve this.

 

[Vexira]

I'd be interested in getting more feedback regarding Beta 4 and UPNP issues. I did one change which shouldn't in theory have any impact, but there's still a possibility that it did. Basically, I'm now allowing miniupnpd to establish specific masquerade rules in front of the global masquerade rule that should normally be applied to ALL WAN traffic. It's possible I overlooked something and those rules are actually necessary.

well from my test it so far fixed the issue with 2 black ops 3 pc copies, the upnp translated the internal port to an external port thats on the propper range that activision requires, i need to retest since i rebooted the router to make sure its working, only still so far getting the gta v modrate nat and moderwarfare 3 spec ops nat error, ill check again to day.

*Update*
Confirmed working, thnx merlin, only still have that issue with spec ops and gta v, not sure what to do with that.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Hoping this will work for game consoles. I presume it will.
Did you do any other configurations with the router? Or just using uPnP only and letting that do all the portings?

 

[Vexira]

Ju

Hoping this will work for game consoles. I presume it will.
Did you do any other configurations with the router? Or just using uPnP only and letting that do all the portings?

Just upnp and I'm running adaptive qos in game mode always have.
And the default port range, it will work on consoles I tested my xbox one, cod advanced warfare had open nat, even though I have modern warfare 3 open on the pc with open nat.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Default port range a setting in the UI? Or just something automatic? Just want to understand and get details on all of this as if it's working for you, then we can help others with this FW version and Asus routers get OPEN NAT across the board using good details provided here. Thanks for all your doing. Look good for OPEN NAT on more than one PC or game console with same games. I play with others that have more than one console and it's hard trying to inform them of all the complexities behind getting OPEN NAT and everything. I just spent about 3 hours trying to configure a Arris DG model modem/router for two XB1s. Can not get OPEN NAT in game on the 2nd xbox. Tried everything the modem offers. Ya I know, I know. I hate working with modem router combos. I'm going back tomorrow to install a loaner router that I know works with multiple consoles. Arris implementations of uPnP and Port Trigger doesn't seem to work well. At least with two xboxes.

 

[Vexira]

Default port range a setting in the UI? Or just something automatic? Just want to understand and get details on all of this as if it's working for you, then we can help others with this FW version and Asus routers get OPEN NAT across the board using good details provided here. Thanks for all your doing. Look good for OPEN NAT on more than one PC or game console with same games. I play with others that have more than one console and it's hard trying to inform them of all the complexities behind getting OPEN NAT and everything. I just spent about 3 hours trying to configure a Arris DG model modem/router for two XB1s. Can not get OPEN NAT in game on the 2nd xbox. Tried everything the modem offers. Ya I know, I know. I hate working with modem router combos. I'm going back tomorrow to install a loaner router that I know works with multiple consoles. Arris implementations of uPnP and Port Trigger doesn't seem to work well. At least with two xboxes.

Default port range in the UI, the one you see after you switch from stock to Merlin, Im willing to help in any way I can. So if you or anyone has questions just ask me.
I'm running the RT-AC88U if Your looking for a router, and a drayteck vigor 130, in bridge mode, cause I have vdsl2, the modem works with adsl as well.
I got rid of my all on one units cause the were horrible upnp wise.
Also if it beta 4 doesnt fix it right away power cycle the router. I had to bcause mines on all day long, to keep the voip ata working. Also if that fails set the internal port start to 1 then back to 1024, viola it should work, and i recomment giving beta 5 a go, since it has a new fix that might help.

 

[Vexira]

Default port range a setting in the UI? Or just something automatic? Just want to understand and get details on all of this as if it's working for you, then we can help others with this FW version and Asus routers get OPEN NAT across the board using good details provided here. Thanks for all your doing. Look good for OPEN NAT on more than one PC or game console with same games. I play with others that have more than one console and it's hard trying to inform them of all the complexities behind getting OPEN NAT and everything. I just spent about 3 hours trying to configure a Arris DG model modem/router for two XB1s. Can not get OPEN NAT in game on the 2nd xbox. Tried everything the modem offers. Ya I know, I know. I hate working with modem router combos. I'm going back tomorrow to install a loaner router that I know works with multiple consoles. Arris implementations of uPnP and Port Trigger doesn't seem to work well. At least with two xboxes.

Your welcome, but Merlin deserves all the credit, if you have steam pm me and I'll see if I could possibly help you.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Would be great if you can post up a step by step process of what you did. Include what Merlin FW version you loaded, model router and step by step settings you did on the router and on consoles and or PCs. If any configurations on consoles or PCs please mention as well. This would be greatly helpful as a FAQ for any all forums ushers here and elsewhere. Please let me know if I can help with this any. Would be great to have a good working solution for house holds with more than one gaming console or PC.

 

[Vexira]

Would be great if you can post up a step by step process of what you did. Include what Merlin FW version you loaded, model router and step by step settings you did on the router and on consoles and or PCs. If any configurations on consoles or PCs please mention as well. This would be greatly helpful as a FAQ for any all forums ushers here and elsewhere. Please let me know if I can help with this any. Would be great to have a good working solution for house holds with more than one gaming console or PC.

Ok ill try and write up a guide, if you having issues with the isp modem i can try to give you a hand if you want.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Just put something in the guide referring to bridging modems with built in routers or using there DMZ if they can't be bridged. Mentioning that having a modem with a built in router and using external routers can cause a double NAT condition which isn't recommended. LOL

Thank you much.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

Just wanted to add some more info which had been discussed earlier. Looks like issues with two or more xboxes gaming online at the same time with the same game seems to be effected by the kind of NAT used in uPnP in the router. Looks like Symmetric NAT is more secure and what some if not most router Mfrs are using today in newer generation routers. The other kind of NAT is FULL Cone. Which seems to be more accepting of two or more gaming consoles with same game running and is best for gaming consoles. Some older generation routers may have this "full cone" nat code or able to use both full cone and Symmetric depending upon how the router Mfr designed and configured in there FW code.

Looks like older D-Link routers like DIR-655/855/825 and DGL-4500/5500 have the full cone nat implementation. While the newer generation DIR series routers do not. Same goes with NetGear and I presume Asus and others and depending on what they chose to put in. Depending upon what Mfrs are using, some routers won't be able to fully support the golden rule of OPEN NAT across the board with two or more game consoles and in game.

I have a newer generation NG R7800 that handles two game consoles across the board and in BO3. OPEN NAT across the board for both game consoles. So does the older generation D-Link routers.

Would be good to collect what routers other users are using that seem to support this FULL CONE NAT with two or more game consoles online.

Some reading:
http://www.think-like-a-computer.com/2011/09/19/symmetric-nat/
https://www.bungie.net/en-us/Forums/Post/75409135

http://www.internetsociety.org/depl...xbox-one-gaming-experience-will-be-over-ipv6/
Been mentioned that if IPv6 becomes the norm for gaming then all this IPv4 multi game console NAT issues, I presume, would go away. Depending upon ISPs, IPv6 configurations on the consoles and I presume in games as well.

So for now, I guess, gamers should be aware of what there routers support as far as kind of NAT uPnP implements and if they have two or more game consoles under one roof, they should inquired of there router Mfr on what model routers support "FULL CONE" NAT which seems to be the current best configuration for xbox live and or play station.

My 2 cents.

 

[Vexira]

Full Cone NAT is one where all requests from the same internal IP address and port are mapped to the same external IP address and port. Furthermore, any external host can send a packet to the internal host, by sending a packet to the mapped external address.

Symmetric NAT is one where all requests from the same internal IP address and port, to a specific destination IP address and port, are mapped to the same external IP address and port. If the same host sends a packet with the same source address and port, but to a different destination, a different mapping is used. Furthermore, only the external host that receives a packet can send a UDP packet back to the internal host.

 

[Vexira]

It's more to do with upnp implementation, and how it handles nat, I hope upnp V2.0 when it works sorts out all the nat issues. I still do have a few lingering upnp bugs but ill post a thread about them, i do suspect its an issue with masqrade rules possibly.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

From what I was told and now understand, it's the uPnP NAT type code they use in these routers and yes, it's how it handles the whole process with multiple game consoles and in game NAT status for those games that use this. Yes, I've always thought it was how uPnP was handling things and implementation.

I saw a difference between BO2 and Bo3 though. I configured static DNS on a 2nd console leaving everything else Dynamic. OPEN NAT across the board and in BO2 for both consoles with a Symmetric only router. Putting BO3 in on both, I got OPEN NAT across the board on the 1st console and Moderate NAT in BO3 using this static DNS on the 2nd console and this one Symmetric NAT router. I could not get OPEN NAT on 2nd console in BO3. If I put on line a older model router that seems to support this "Full Cone" nat kind of condition, just using uPnP and it's QoS and using Dynamic configurations on both consoles, I get OPEN NAT across the board on both consoles with BO3 running at the same time. Only other I router I found that can do this,and is a newer generation router, is a NetGear R7800. Other newer generation routers I have I can't do this with on multiple consoles using same game at the same time, i.e. BO3.

I presume that there is differences in games that play a part in this as well. While not sure if BO3 is more particular in it's NAT status or BO2 is less particular or what. Just seeing what I see when working with all of these configurations, routers and some of these games.

And again, this only is seen when two or more game consoles are online at the same time with same game. I presume there maybe other experiences seen with using different games as well. Single player game consoles will not or should not see this issue if there in a signal NAT network configuration, regardless of Symmetric NAT only router or not as we know that the single console always gets the main gaming ports and doesn't have to share with any other consoles. LOL.

Will be interesting to see if the next version of uPnP will help or if IPv6 will be the solver of all this.

Do you have any info on uPnP v2?