VLAN with RT-AX88U or Move to RT-BE88U?

[MiserableCurmugeon]

I love my RT- AX88U but I've recently dumped BT and gone to another provider of FTTP. Their service requires that I set Auto IP and a VLAN ID to connect to the ONT. The AX88U (it's not a Pro) can't do VLAN in native mode.

So I've managed to cobble something together using a 15 year old DSL-N66U which does do 802.1Q / VLAN, plonked between ONT and AX88U. I turned everything off, set the VLAN ID in WAN settings and put the AX88U in the DMZ. It's not pretty and the speed is less than half my contracted number but at least it works. I tried it with the N66U in bridge mode but it wouldn't work, presumably because the ONT is no longer seeing a VLAN ID. But if anyone knows better and can advise settings I'd be grateful.

There's no solution available if I go the Merlin route. I did find an excellent description of how to do VLAN with the AX88U on the forum.

VLANs, Trunk interface, tagged and untagged traffic RT-AX86U and RT-AX88U

It took me a while to make this thing work. I could find some configs but nothing worked as provided. After combining information from several different posts I came to the working solution posted below. As it took me a while to get it to work I figured I'd share it here in case anyone else...

www.snbforums.com

To be honest it's way over my head, I'm not sure it's really what I'm looking for and I wouldn't know where and how to start implementing it. If anyone can suggest a more "Dummy's Guide to VLAN" method I'm all ears and thankful.

If there's no straightforward solution, I guess I'm going to end up splashing £300 on an RT-BE88U, which does have VLAN in the specification. I'll then relegate the AX88U to be a very over capable, backhauled Mesh node. I can transfer all my setup such as the extensive list of fixed IPs from the old to the new. There's no mention though of VLAN in the ASUS manual for the BE, so I'm not completely bought in yet.

So my question is twofold. Firstly - is the VLAN mode on the BE88U okay to meet this requirement for a VLAN ID for the ONT? Secondly - am I making it all just too complicated and is there a simpler, cheaper route?

Many thanks.
p.s. I don't need WiFi 7 at present or in the forseeable future.
p.p.s I can post screenshots of the DSL-N66U WAN settings that worked, but I'm sure they're not needed for this.

 

[ColinTaylor]

Their service requires that I set Auto IP and a VLAN ID to connect to the ONT. The AX88U (it's not a Pro) can't do VLAN in native mode.

The ISP's VLAN ID would normally be set on the LAN - IPTV page (yes, it's a non-obvious place for it). Set the ISP Profile to Manual Setting and enter the Internet VID. Do you not have this option? Or perhaps you mean something else when talking about "native mode"?

 

[MiserableCurmugeon]

Thanks for that Colin, I'll have a play. I'd found a similar suggestion from a deep AI search but nowhere did I find a mention of putting the VLAN ID in the VID field, and t'interweb suggested they're not the same thing. But close enough apparently. Silly me.

I assume that I leave PRIO at the default of zero and set everything up on the Internet Port, not LAN Port 3 or 4?

I checked with the ISP that I could use my own router prior to signing up (unlike BT with thier horrid Digital Voice SmartHub 2 they tried to foister on me). But the only information they supply is to set DHCP (i.e. Automatic IP) and VLAN 101. Understandably, they say they can't support third party routers and the TP-Link they supply for the masses at installation is locked down, so I can't see anything on the WAN config pages that I might learn from.

By "native mode" I meant plain vanilla firmware, latest available version, no Merlin, no other third party add ons or mods.

 

[ColinTaylor]

Thanks for that Colin, I'll have a play. I'd found a similar suggestion from a deep AI search but nowhere did I find a mention of putting the VLAN ID in the VID field, and t'interweb suggested they're not the same thing. But close enough apparently. Silly me.

VID is an abbreviation for VLAN ID.

I assume that I leave PRIO at the default of zero and set everything up on the Internet Port, not LAN Port 3 or 4?

Correct.

 

[MiserableCurmugeon]

It works! Thanks so much for that Colin.

I had to monkey about a bit with the other settings like DHCP mode and remove some of the dross I'd had to put in there to accomodate a BT SmartHub 2 in a previous life, before I could get the router and the ONT to have a deep and meaningful convesation. But I eventually hit on a working config.

The speed is still comparatively slow but will hopefully improve over the next week as the ISP settles down at the other end. That's the excuse BT often used to give when speed was downright poor so I'll give my new provider the benefit of the doubt for a week or two.

Cheers, I owe you a virtual pint.

 

[degrub]

What else do you have set in the AX88U ? Any Ai Cloud/Protect/ etc ? Any QOS or other functions ?
Since you know how to config the connection to the ISP now, it may be worth while doing a factory reset and manual config to start from a known point and check the ISP speed through the AX88U with a LAN connected PC

What is the firmware in the AX88U ?

All of the ISP speed "tuning" should have already happened as that would be between the ONT and the other ISP optical modem, not involving your router.

 

[MiserableCurmugeon]

What else do you have set in the AX88U ? Any Ai Cloud/Protect/ etc ? Any QOS or other functions ?
Since you know how to config the connection to the ISP now, it may be worth while doing a factory reset and manual config to start from a known point and check the ISP speed through the AX88U with a LAN connected PC

What is the firmware in the AX88U ?

All of the ISP speed "tuning" should have already happened as that would be between the ONT and the other ISP optical modem, not involving your router.

Firmware is 3.0.0.4.388_24333, checks out as latest available when I look to update.

Nothing fancy set in the AX88U yet, I reverted it all the way back to the fastest config I could find when direct connected to an Openreach ONT for about 4 years. I will maybe set QoS for the new telephone ATA if we have any voice problems, but it looks rock solid so far. I'm not a gamer so no need for any settings there and I've never found a need to do anything for Zoom, etc.

All hardwired computers go directly to a router port on Cat6, not through my L2+ switches, so I know the reported speeds are real and not influenced by any internal hardware.

The speed is also slower than contract if I plug in the ISP supplier's own TP-Link router and direct connect a laptop. But the AX88U is about another 25% down on that. In the past few weeks the ONT has had more reboots than I can count. I'll sort out the speed with them once I know everyting is stable and everything hanging off the network like PV diverters, server, security, etc. is behaving.

There's an internet full of speed test sites and they all give me very different numbers. I tend to prefer Fing because at least it gives consistent numbers and is the only one that seems to spot I now have synchronous speeds down and up. But I'd very much welcome suggestions for what might be best and most accurate to use for speeds in the range 300-1000 Mb/sec.

A factory reset is out of the question I'm afraid.

I've got a huge table of grouped, static IP's for >30 devices and some of them point at each other (like the server). I'm not setting all that lot up again if I can help it. I'd end up copying and typing in MAC addresses for a lot of the stuff like grandkids' phones that aren't always here, but I like to keep them in a safe corner away from the main network.

The only thing I've not tried to extend to yet is DDNS but I don't expect a problem. I took this route originally because BT don't offer a fixed IP for domestic users. Although my new provider does, I've no need to spend an extra fiver a month for the priviledge.

 

[degrub]

One approach is to take the router out of the equation. Directly connect a capable PC to the ISP connection, if possible, and test that way. One way to tell if the router is capable. Then add the router back in and test. The inboard router based speed test is not as reliable as it consumes CPU cycles, perhaps under reporting rates.

QOS being on usually reduces results.

One day the system will need replacing, so i hope all those reservations and the rest of the config is on screen shots or paper.

 

[Ripshod]

The speed is also slower than contract if I plug in the ISP supplier's own TP-Link router

As with most UK ISPs they quote headline figures, but only guarantee 50% of those. I'm sure you already know that.

 

[MiserableCurmugeon]

One approach is to take the router out of the equation. Directly connect a capable PC to the ISP connection, if possible, and test that way. One way to tell if the router is capable. Then add the router back in and test. The inboard router based speed test is not as reliable as it consumes CPU cycles, perhaps under reporting rates.

QOS being on usually reduces results.

One day the system will need replacing, so i hope all those reservations and the rest of the config is on screen shots or paper.

Yep, that's exactly what I did - Cat 6 hardwired laptop direct to the ISP supplied WiFi 7 router, which was direct to the ONT. I even tried it with the tatty ribbon cable they provide replaced by a good quality, short Cat 6 connexction.

As already mentioned, the Asus QoS is off.

When it comes time to replace the kit it will probably be more Asus gear, with a router backup saved from the AX88U then uploaded to the new router. It won't get everything across, but enough. That's exactly the reason why I was considering the RT-BE88U.

 

[bennor]

... with a router backup saved from the AX88U then uploaded to the new router.

That is generally not a recommended course of action especially if there is a major difference between the old router and new router, like moving from v3004.388.x firmware to the v3006.102.x firmware. You may end up trying to fix various issues going that route due to settings and values not being identical between the two routers particularly when they use different hardware. Normally it is recommended to record all your current settings then manually setup the new router. There are ways to possibly export the DHCP manual IP reservations from the router and import them into the new router. If one is using Asus-Merlin firmware there are various methods to backup and restore the manual IP reservations including using YazDHCP. There is also the Asus-Merlin addon script BACKUPMON that some use.

 

[Ripshod]

I'd wholly recommend YAZDHCP if you have a lot of ip reservations. BACKUPMON should not be used between different router models as it saves and imports the NVRAM.

 

[jksmurf]

There are ways to possibly export the DHCP manual IP reservations from the router and import them into the new router.

I've got a huge table of grouped, static IP's for >30 devices and some of them point at each other (like the server). I'm not setting all that lot up again if I can help it. I'd end up copying and typing in MAC addresses for a lot of the stuff like grandkids' phones that aren't always here, but I like to keep them in a safe corner away from the main network.

I now use YazDHCP referred to by @bennor which is excellent (noting it can only be installed on a router running Merlin FW, which you do not currently use), but absent that, there are ways to simplify the export and reimport of these manual assignments.

See e.g. here:

ASUS RT-BE86U

I have an ASUS RT-BE86U with original ASUS software, is it possible to download only the client list along with the MAC that I have made in the LAN with a static IP number assigned? I would like to restart to factory settings and upload only the client list and set the rest again myself. I am...

www.snbforums.com

and here:

Saving the multiple DHCP Static Lists and Custom Client Lists from 3006 Routers with Guest Network Pro?

As noted a few times in various posts I’ve been using WinSCP and just saving several files from the router containing dhcp reservation details, then copying them back into /jffs/nvram, for many years, without issue. For one fixed DHCP list (under the LAN, DHCP tab) that 3004 FW had, it worked...

www.snbforums.com

I appreciate it may appear daunting at first glance but the recommendation above to factory reset your router (which even ASUS have said to do on some recent FW for specific models) is a good one.

The ability to at least be able to import these more tedious manual assignments may sway your decision to go ahead with that. Just save all your settings as screencaps first and enter them back manually (except the manual assignments, which can be imported from current settings saved in files).