Having an issue with trying to setup MOCA network in house. I have one coax outlet that will not work with a splitter. If I connect the MOCA adapter directly to the outlet, I get connection without issue. If I introduce a splitter, then the adapter does not get a connection. I have used different cables from the wall and different splitters but same result. Also, I have tested the same cables and splitters with other outlets and they work fine. Any ideas on how to resolve or how to troubleshoot further? Thanks!
MOCA Network Issue
- Thread starter wer4mu
- Start date
Without seeing a detailed sketch of your coax network and devices (with model #s), it sounds like either 1) incompatible splitter, 2) too much signal loss for the moca amp to overcome, or 3) possibly a poorly terminated cable.
moca 1, 2, or 2.5 ?
RG59 or RG6 ?
Login to the modem and look at the signal power versus power budget to see how much power is being used versus available. Do this without the splitter inline. Do again with the splitter in line.
What is the brand and model number of the splitter ?
moca 1, 2, or 2.5 ?
RG59 or RG6 ?
Login to the modem and look at the signal power versus power budget to see how much power is being used versus available. Do this without the splitter inline. Do again with the splitter in line.
What is the brand and model number of the splitter ?
Moca 2.5. The adapters are Gocoax - just got them. I have 2 different splitters and they work on any other coax outlet in the house except this one so I know the splitters are good. I have checked the cable connection to the wall outlet and it is tight. Also, if I use the adapter without a splitter on this particular outlet, it works just fine. Just does not work when a splitter is introduced. Not sure I know where to see signal power vs power budget in the adapter - what is an example? What if power is too low - do I need to get some sort of amplifier? Thanks.
Check over in the GOCoax threads.
Each connection on coax introduces about 3dB of signal loss. It can be much higher with a splitter - either balanced or unbalanced types. Typical 2-way splitters introduce about 3.5 dB of loss. If ALL of the splitters in the cable plant are not designed and rated for MOCA 2 specifically, the loss may be too high. If there is any damage to a cable within the wall or elsewhere, the signal to noise ratio can be reduced. The combination comes into play for making sync. Typical budget on a moca modem as about 40 dB if i remember correctly. Look for Kaufman's posts as he has more engineering data there.
If you have a central bi-drectional splitter/amp there may be too many connections and cable distance betwenn the two moca nodes for the MOCA modem amp to overcome. That is why this specific drop may not be able to reach the other modem and sync. It is the path length and signal loss between each node that determines.
if the in wall cabling is RG59, that will also affect the issue. RG6 is preferred and is what MOCA 2 was designed for.
A sketch, as requested earlier, can help us figure out the issue and offer suggestions. If you have a central splitter/amp, you may need to replace it or rearrange the connections to get a lower loss path to this location.
Each connection on coax introduces about 3dB of signal loss. It can be much higher with a splitter - either balanced or unbalanced types. Typical 2-way splitters introduce about 3.5 dB of loss. If ALL of the splitters in the cable plant are not designed and rated for MOCA 2 specifically, the loss may be too high. If there is any damage to a cable within the wall or elsewhere, the signal to noise ratio can be reduced. The combination comes into play for making sync. Typical budget on a moca modem as about 40 dB if i remember correctly. Look for Kaufman's posts as he has more engineering data there.
If you have a central bi-drectional splitter/amp there may be too many connections and cable distance betwenn the two moca nodes for the MOCA modem amp to overcome. That is why this specific drop may not be able to reach the other modem and sync. It is the path length and signal loss between each node that determines.
if the in wall cabling is RG59, that will also affect the issue. RG6 is preferred and is what MOCA 2 was designed for.
A sketch, as requested earlier, can help us figure out the issue and offer suggestions. If you have a central splitter/amp, you may need to replace it or rearrange the connections to get a lower loss path to this location.
Network diagram attached.
2 Coax connections Upstairs which is where Cable Modem and main switch reside. Dedicated runs from Cable Demarcation box (located outside) to each room.
Living Room is the only room I am having issues.
Living Room with no Splitter: able to get connection between two MOCA adapters
Living Room with Splitter: no connection between two MOCA adapters
Family Room or Bedroom with no Splitter: able to get connection between two MOCA adapters
Family Room or Bedroom with Splitter: able to get connection between two MOCA adapters
Due to testing in multiple rooms I am confident that neither the coax cable coming from wall outlet or the splitter is bad - they both work in other rooms
2 Coax connections Upstairs which is where Cable Modem and main switch reside. Dedicated runs from Cable Demarcation box (located outside) to each room.
Living Room is the only room I am having issues.
Living Room with no Splitter: able to get connection between two MOCA adapters
Living Room with Splitter: no connection between two MOCA adapters
Family Room or Bedroom with no Splitter: able to get connection between two MOCA adapters
Family Room or Bedroom with Splitter: able to get connection between two MOCA adapters
Due to testing in multiple rooms I am confident that neither the coax cable coming from wall outlet or the splitter is bad - they both work in other rooms
what is the model # of the splitter in the demarc box ? close up picture showing the labeling ?
what is the power loss for each port ?
any unterminated ports on the splitter ?
Is there a MOCA block filter anywhere on the coax or built into the splitter input or at the inlet of the coax modem ? you will need this to prevent your moca signal from entering the cable co network.
Is the cable company's modem DOCCIS 3 or 3.1 ? What up/down freqeuncy bands are they using ? You should be able to log into the modem and find this.
There are multiple threads here about getting moca to work with doccis 3 or 3.1 modems that you may want to read.
what is the power loss for each port ?
any unterminated ports on the splitter ?
Is there a MOCA block filter anywhere on the coax or built into the splitter input or at the inlet of the coax modem ? you will need this to prevent your moca signal from entering the cable co network.
Is the cable company's modem DOCCIS 3 or 3.1 ? What up/down freqeuncy bands are they using ? You should be able to log into the modem and find this.
There are multiple threads here about getting moca to work with doccis 3 or 3.1 modems that you may want to read.
Demarcation Box picture attached
1. Main connection (orange cable) comes into POE splitter
2. POE splitter is connected to splitter that has back plate showing - which is connected to one of dedicated runs (not sure why this is instead of just going to main splitter?)
3. Dish cable (from bottom - no longer in use) comes into box and each cable is connected to single connection which is connected to main splitter
4. Another cable comes in from bottom that is another outlet in Kitchen (forgot this in the diagram). This dedicated run is run along the outside of the house only.
5. All other dedicated runs come into main splitter
1. Main connection (orange cable) comes into POE splitter
2. POE splitter is connected to splitter that has back plate showing - which is connected to one of dedicated runs (not sure why this is instead of just going to main splitter?)
3. Dish cable (from bottom - no longer in use) comes into box and each cable is connected to single connection which is connected to main splitter
4. Another cable comes in from bottom that is another outlet in Kitchen (forgot this in the diagram). This dedicated run is run along the outside of the house only.
5. All other dedicated runs come into main splitter
Attachments
do you know which cable in the demarc box goes to which room ? Figure that out and label each cable. You may need to get a coax continuity / ring out identifier tester from Home Depot or Lowes or someplace like that if you can't readily determine by just disconnecting from a splitter.
Do us all a favor and sketch all the connections in the demarc box like you did for the house. i think you are a splitter away from getting it to work, but before you can remove one of those splitters or move a cable, we need to know what is going where and through what splitter.
All of those splitters are passive ? no power injectors putting DC from the house out to the demarc box ?
try to confirm the frequency range from the labels on the splitters and the connection loss on each port for each splitter. Maybe on the other side of the splitter.
Do us all a favor and sketch all the connections in the demarc box like you did for the house. i think you are a splitter away from getting it to work, but before you can remove one of those splitters or move a cable, we need to know what is going where and through what splitter.
All of those splitters are passive ? no power injectors putting DC from the house out to the demarc box ?
try to confirm the frequency range from the labels on the splitters and the connection loss on each port for each splitter. Maybe on the other side of the splitter.
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they may have needed a low loss path to a cable box. Which dedicated run ?
were there two dish antenna feeds ?
krkaufman
Very Senior Member
Eh, “good” is a relative term. It’s about accumulated differences and staying within the total node-to-node MoCA loss budget of 58 dB— so what may work may only work until stretched too far. This is why having access to the MoCA adapter’s status/diagnostics info can be helpful, allowing you to gauge the efficiency of the node connections.
Given their diagram, my question would be whether they actually have separate coax runs from the central junction to the modem/router location. ??? If so, they should be able to isolate the modem from any MoCA signals, resolving any possible MoCA/DOCSIS conflicts into the future.
Separately, if they’re not (nor will be) subscribed to cable TV services, the MoCA portion of the coax wouldn’t need to be connected to the cable provider at all, slightly simplifying the setup and improving the modem signal strength.
CaptainSTX
Part of the Furniture
krkaufman
Very Senior Member
Yeah, my guess would be that that is a 2-way splitter feeding the cable modem … and the rest of the coax off the other splitter output. If so, a “PoE” MoCA filter would be optimally placed on the input of the splitter servicing the rest of the runs, isolating the DOCSIS signals from MoCA and improving the MoCA network efficiency — especially if no “PoE” MoCA filter is currently installed. (I’ve missed that info if it’s been stated.)
krkaufman
Very Senior Member
That would seem good for validating cable quality, but something along the lines of the following is a better fit for quick tracing/identification of coax lines:
krkaufman
Very Senior Member
Fair point. I’ll have to do more research to see where (IF!) power levels are reported for these adapters. For what *is* shown, the single channel PHY rate has a range up to 700 Mbps, so being in the 600 range could be a sign of struggle.
It would be interesting to see what any of your other adapters show when the problematic location has no MoCA adapter.
krkaufman
Very Senior Member
No coax amplifier boosts MoCA signals. MoCA gear has its own built-in power adjustment capability, with the ability to adjust power levels up or down in order to achieve the targeted link rates as efficiently as possible. When node-to-node path losses approach or exceed allowed levels, link rates and connectivity will suffer once the MoCA devices hit their max amplification.
So the goal is to reduce path losses as much as possible: using known-good MoCA 2.x-compatible components, installation of a “PoE” MoCA filter (at least for its performance benefit, even if unneeded for securing the MoCA network), and shrinking the scope of the MoCA-infused coax where possible/practical.
edit: p.s. Re: “using known-good MoCA 2.x-compatible components” … This is why the specific brand & model #s for the splitters have been requested, to evaluate their MoCA compatibility.
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krkaufman
Very Senior Member
Do you have (or may want in the future) cable TV service or just cable Internet and phone?
Interestingly, your junction box diagram implies that the cable modem signal may already be isolated from the rest of the coax (which would make sense if Dish satellite service was feeding the rest of your coax) — though the split should be unnecessary (unless needed to dampen the cable signal) and I’d like product number or photo confirmation of the “POE blocker” component (as I can’t map that to your earlier photo).
And you’re no longer subscribed to Dish, right? If not, the Dish dishes should no longer be connected to your coax plant. Label and disconnect those lines, and right-size your junction splitters accordingly.
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krkaufman
Very Senior Member
Preface: With your cable modem feed seemingly isolated from the rest of your coax, any changes to this portion of your coax should have no effect, positive or negative, as regards the MoCA connectivity issue at the root of the thread.
If your modem line is indeed isolated from the rest of your coax, the MoCA filter aspect of this component is unnecessary, and even detrimental if/when your cable provider begins rolling out DOCSIS 3.1 or later. Ideally, you could replace both this component and the 2-way splitter with a simple surge suppressor ground block, with an attenuator* added only if needed to keep the modem’s signal levels optimized. (* just keep the attenuator’s spec’d frequency range in mind relative to DOCSIS 3.1+)
That said, as prefaced, any changes on this front (the isolated modem portion of your coax) wouldn’t have an effect on your MoCA connectivity issue.
Ah, nevermind; a quick Google and Amazon product lookup clarified the component in the earlier photo as an Extreme Broadband “PoE” MoCA filter and surge suppressor (Amazon listing).
If your modem line is indeed isolated from the rest of your coax, the MoCA filter aspect of this component is unnecessary, and even detrimental if/when your cable provider begins rolling out DOCSIS 3.1 or later. Ideally, you could replace both this component and the 2-way splitter with a simple surge suppressor ground block, with an attenuator* added only if needed to keep the modem’s signal levels optimized. (* just keep the attenuator’s spec’d frequency range in mind relative to DOCSIS 3.1+)
That said, as prefaced, any changes on this front (the isolated modem portion of your coax) wouldn’t have an effect on your MoCA connectivity issue.
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