My first NAS build, your thoughts are appreciated

[Lonerider]

Hi,

My first post here so I guess a short intro would be good. I'm from Singapore and the missus and I live in a small 2 bedroom apartment with our three cats. We have our firstborn on the way.

We have 2 desktops... One in my studio cum guest room which I use for work, recording my guitar and general stuff like surfing and light gaming. I teach elementary school and with how tech is moving I spend quite a bit of time creating lessons, slides and stuff for my class.

The other desktop is in the living room and doubles as our HTPC as well as my wifes' work PC. Both are AMD systems and built by me. Both PCs are linked via 3 AV200 plugs to the router. We also use our own desktops to link to our servers at work via wireless g. She uses the desktop mostly for surfing and Excel as she's an accountant. Both desktops are on Acronis True Image for backups.

My needs are...

1. File serving for the growing number of movies I rip and also home videos and photos we are planning to take when our child arrives. We also plan to backup our work to the NAS
2. Streaming of videos to the HTPC. Most are in ISO format but quite a few are AVI and are DVD rips. We have a Blu-ray player but it's a bit picky when it comes to the type of disks it plays.
3. Home surveillance via an IP camera. We've decided on 1, maybe 2 cameras.
4. Accessing our stored files remotely from our workplace.
5. Streaming content to our mobile phones; my Android phone and her iPhone.
6. Print serving 2 printers

The options I have are as followed...

1. Buy a Synology 411J for $650 (without drives) and be done with it.
2. Build my own home server. (chosen)

The build I'm thinking of would be... edit (confirmed build)

1. (USD170) CPU - AMD E-350 link, Mobo - E35M1-M Pro + Windows Home Server 2011 (Amazon)
   
2. (already owned) RAM - 8Gb Kingston DDR3-1333
3. (already owned) HDD SATA3, WD Green 2tb x 2
4. (USD100) - Fractal Designs Define Mini/ Arc Mini
5. (already owned) - Corsair HX650

All prices are in USD... Total is USD270 = approx. SGD350


Questions...

1. Is it worth it to go on with this build compared to buying the Synology?
2. Will the performance gain be much of a difference compared to the Synology?
3. Should I go with a different OS? W7 Home Premium costs an extra $20 or just go with Free NAS...
4. Will my AV200 homeplug be a bottleneck?

P.S. - I'm a bit of an AMD fanboy, please don't ask me to consider an Intel CPU.

 

[GregN]

Lonerider,

Questions related to should you do DIY:

• How important is saving that $200?
• Do you see a need for significant expansion if the future?
• How comfortable do you feel building your own PC?
• Do you have the spare time to put everything together?
• Singapore two bedroom apt, would using the old parts lying around clear living space?

If the answers are positive, I would go ahead with a build. If not, then go with the Synology.

And take a look at this thread where the trade offs are discussed.

Stevech is a resident Synology guy, you might want to drop him a note, or pose the same question over in the Synology forum.

 

[Lonerider]

Lonerider,

Questions related to should you do DIY:

• How important is saving that $200?
• Do you see a need for significant expansion if the future?
• How comfortable do you feel building your own PC?
• Do you have the spare time to put everything together?
• Singapore two bedroom apt, would using the old parts lying around clear living space?

If the answers are positive, I would go ahead with a build. If not, then go with the Synology.

And take a look at this thread where the trade offs are discussed.

Stevech is a resident Synology guy, you might want to drop him a note, or pose the same question over in the Synology forum.

• Any amount saved is good
• Yes, I have 4tb worth of movies with more in the future. The missus keeps her work (tax records) for at least 3 years but honestly I have never seen her delete anything.
• Very comfortable building a PC. I know my way around the bios and have built around a dozen systems for family members. This however will be my first server build.
• I can assemble a desktop under an hour but configuring Home Server 2011 will be something new. I'm guesstimating and setting aside around 60hrs for configuring the OS to my liking.
• Space is always an issue... I'll always have parts lying around just in case. Old scout habit I guess. The server will be placed in our bomb shelter so it'll be out of the way.

 

[Lonerider]

I've more or less decided that I'd go the server route...

Pros...
​

• I'm comfortable in the Windows environment and GUI
• More expansion slots; max 6 vs 4 from Synology
• USB 3.0 and USB 2.0 vs USB 2.0 and there's plenty of them
• SATA III vs SATA II, not a big deal actually on a 7.2k rpm drive
• Direct streaming vs file accsess (full HD may be an issue though)

Cons...
​

• Power consumption is a tad higher compared to a Synology NAS
• Requires more work setting up
• Driver issues for IP cam and printers WHS 2011 as it is fairly new
• No RAID support

Things I need to decide on... WHS 2011 vs W7. Leaning towards WHS as backups are handled better. I'll update this thread or start a new one for a WIP.

 

[loyukfai]

Couples of points...

- AFAIK, WHS 2011 shares the same kernel and underlying architecture with mainstream Windows. Anything that works with Win2008 and/or Win7 should also work with WHS 2011.

- Any particular reason to spend on Trend Micro? Microsoft Security Essentials is free and does the job more or less the same, IMO, that's.

- Not familiar with the prices in Singapore myself, but are they in SGD...? Cause your numbers look very expensive.

- If the prices are in USD, then you may like to take a look at eBay for WHS.

- Your case is, IMO, overly expensive, for one going "into the bomb shelter" and is unlikely to see daylight.

FYI, I just built one, also with a E350 mainboard, for <150USD, sans drives and chassis and with Debian. For 50USD plus shipping I can get a copy of WHS on eBay, and a used chassis shouldn't cost much if those are what I want... (the info is available in another thread in this forum).

Anyway, be sure to check out the thread GregN referred to, we had some serious discussions over there.

BTW, congrats to you and your missus and wish you a healthy baby.

Cheers.

 

[00Roush]

FYI you can take WHS for a spin via the Microsoft website. http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows/products/windows-home-server/get-it Click on lauch demo. You have to be running IE though. From what I can tell the basic OS looks exactly the same as my Windows Server 2008 R2 setup I have here at home. The bonus is the WHS Dashboard makes setting things up easier than it would be in just plain old Windows Server 2008.

00Roush

 

[Lonerider]

BTW, congrats to you and your missus and wish you a healthy baby.
Cheers.

Couples of points...

AFAIK, WHS 2011 shares the same kernel and underlying architecture with mainstream Windows. Anything that works with Win2008 and/or Win7 should also work with WHS 2011.
That's what I thought too but there have been some beta users having issues. Hopefully these issues have been ironed out.

Any particular reason to spend on Trend Micro? Microsoft Security Essentials is free and does the job more or less the same?
Been using Trend Micro for a while now and it's very low resource usage have been good for me. Now that you mentioned it... I realised I have a spare seat of Trend Micro unused so that's a saving for me. From some forum posts (not here) I gather that MSE doesn't work on WHS 2011.

Not familiar with the prices in Singapore myself, but are they in SGD...? Cause your numbers look very expensive.
Yes, all prices are in SGD. Exchange rate right now is approx. 1 USD = 1.3 SGD. Prices of components aren't very competitive last few years as more and more people aren't willing to assemble their own desktops.

An alternative is to buy one off Amazon for approx. SGD180 but I've always been careful with mobo. Top on my "most likely to be RMAed" list. The saving does look attractive though.

If the prices are in USD, then you may like to take a look at eBay for WHS.
Lots of sellers on eBay but unfortunately most are charging USD30-50 to ship a small package overseas.

Your case is, IMO, overly expensive, for one going "into the bomb shelter" and is unlikely to see daylight.
Actually I've got to agree here. The plan is to stick it in the bomb shelter but we may place it in the bedroom as the wifi signal cannot penetrate through 2 feet of reinforced concrete and the heavy steel door.

There's a powerpoint in there so an option is to stick another AV200 point in there. That would make a total of 4 homeplug points in the network. Will this be an issue?

The case allows a maximum of 6 HDD which is pretty attractive to me. That and it's fully filtered all around... very important when you have 3 cats at home. I can shave off SGD50 if I use a cheaper case but that'd mean settling for 4HDD slots. The idea right now is future expansion to make full use of the 5 X SATA3 ports on the mobo. The plan is to use this setup for about 5-7years. Once it's set-up I'd likely just leave it to it's own devices.

 

[Lonerider]

FYI you can take WHS for a spin via the Microsoft website
00Roush

Thanks 00Roush, took it for a spin.... NICE! Feel right at home with the GUI.

Update...
Gathering parts for the build today. WHS 2011 will take a while to reach fortress Singapore.

 

[Lonerider]

Update...

Done...
​

1. Bought mobo and WHS 2011 on Amazon... caved in and threw caution to the wind. Saved quite a bit going this route but crossing my finger the Asus mobo will not need to be RMAed. So far my experience with Asus products have always been positive and hope it'd remain that way.
2. Will pick up my chasis this weekend. Chose the Fractal designs Define Mini. Silent running with all filtered intakes while at the same time being pretty and silent enough to sit in the living/ sleeping area without stirring the missus from her sleep.
3. Bought an extra AV200 homeplug. Not sure how this will affect my network throughput. That makes a total of 4 units in my LAN. The tought of switching to AV500 did occur to me but I'd rather have stability than raw speed... that and selling off 3 adapters won't be easy.

To do...
​

1. Decide if I'm going to trade in the HX650 for a smaller modular PSU. It's grossly overkill for this build. I expect total current draw with the chassis fully loaded to be well below 200W. Power efficiency drops when using a larger capacity PSU for low draw. It's a very efficient PSU with 7 year warranty though so there might not be any economic gain trading it in.
2. Devise internal and external cable management plan for the build. My OCD prevents me from having a cluttered internal wiring.
3. Figure out how to set up WOL/ Magic Packet into my system so the server can initiate backups between 0200hr - 0700hrs. Right now both desktops are set-up to auto on at 0500hrs for Acronis to auto back-up and shut down the PC everyday. I figure with a slower CPU this would take quite a bit longer.
4. Devise the best folder and backup route to go with. Did a quick audit of the amount of data used between the 2 desktops. Total amount used just for video ISOs and rips stand at almost 3tb. Got to find a way to span shared folders span across 2-4 drives.

• Hardware based... Raid/JBOD card maybe? Kinda risky... Not sure if WHS 2011 will repartition the drive again to 2tb sections.
• Software based... Using add-on apps maybe sufficient. Not sure if WHS 2011 will repartition the drive again to 2tb sections. Will do more research.

This 2tb limitation is getting me nervous but I'm going to wing it... for all I know my fears could well be unfounded.

​

That's all the update I have... Got a class in 10 minutes. Better be there early before my kids start killing each other.

Hmmm.... a thought just occured. Since most of my students are internet connected I might allow them user access to my server to download materials and homework from home. It'd definitely save me a lot of work. While I'm at it I might create a public e-calendar so they access it for weekly lesson plans and stuff.

 

[00Roush]

I just posted a bit of info about the 2 TB limit for WHS in another thread. See post # 46. Basically it shouldn't really be an issue for you. Just use software or hardware RAID to create a larger disk to use. Not too difficult. WHS will do software RAID 0,1, and 5 as it is based on Windows Server 2008 R2.

00Roush

 

[loyukfai]

What you said is generally right, AFAIK. But there are PSU with higher rated max. power with better efficiency at lower loads than PSU with lower rated max. power though. Besides, at low loads, even a relatively large difference in efficiency may not matter that much after all. See this post for a more detailed explanation. In short, a 10-20W difference could be kind of trivial to an end-user.

Cheers.

 

[Lonerider]

I just posted a bit of info about the 2 TB limit for WHS in another thread. See post # 46. Basically it shouldn't really be an issue for you. Just use software or hardware RAID to create a larger disk to use. Not too difficult. WHS will do software RAID 0,1, and 5 as it is based on Windows Server 2008 R2.

00Roush

Good to know... I'll probably not implement a RAID setup yet. Digging around I found 2 more HDD in my stash (500gb)

Right now I'm thinking...
- 500GB (SATAII) for OS
- 2TB (SATAIII) for backups of desktop 1 and 2
- 2TB (SATAIII) for shared folders

Once the 2TB shared folder file is full I guess I'll either add another drive and start filling it up as another separate volume or go with drive bender and combine a a couple of disks as a single volume. Since the case can support up to 6 drives I'm not too worried.

All we need now is for HDD prices to normalise. Still pretty bad here. Glad I squirelled away a few drives before prices went up.

Add: There's no built in raid on this mobo so it's either software or buy an add-on RAID card.

 

[Lonerider]

What you said is generally right, AFAIK. But there are PSU with higher rated max. power with better efficiency at lower loads than PSU with lower rated max. power though. Besides, at low loads, even a relatively large difference in efficiency may not matter that much after all. See this post for a more detailed explanation. In short, a 10-20W difference could be kind of trivial to an end-user.

Cheers.

Yes I'm familiar with the 80+ certification. The HX650 is 80+ Bronze. The issue is at low draw the efficiency of PSUs suffers. Looking at the chart for the HX650 there's no way to know for sure what kind of efficiency I'd get at say 80W... not without opening it up and taking readings with my multimeter at least. Of course that would void warranty.

Anyway I'll probably stick to what I have on hand, the HX650. Seems it's downright impossible finding a good low wattage PSU with modular connectors. I've had good experience using this particular make. Think I've used it in at least 4 builds. With Corsair I know that if it goes kaput I just have to bring it in and get a new replacement on the spot no questions asked.
​

 

[loyukfai]

Not sure if you get my point - If we're talking about a 10-20W difference, which in the Los Angeles area translates into a 1.5-3USD difference in a monthly electricity bill if it's run 24/7, how many months are needed to cover the expense of a new PSU...?

Now, I'm not familiar with the electricity cost in Singapore, so you should make your own calculations.

BTW, as long as vendors are able to ship cherry picked samples for tests (HardOCP has an editorial about this), this whole 80+ certification cannot be taken too seriously.

Cheers.

 

[loyukfai]

Regarding software vs hardware RAID, think about this - In case your hardware RAID adapter fails, how difficult and how much will it cost you to replace it?

Not to mention that cheap RAID cards are unlikely to bring any significant performance benefit, if at all - The majority of processing is done by the processor anyway.

Now, if you're talking about those hardware RAID adapters that have dedicated processors, cache, backup batteries, and cost hundreds of dollars, and yo're prepared to buy two (one for spare), then it's a different matter.

For usage like your card, a hardware RAID is difficult to be justified, so it seems.

Cheers.

 

[Lonerider]

Not sure if you get my point - If we're talking about a 10-20W difference, which in the Los Angeles area translates into a 1.5-3USD difference in a monthly electricity bill if it's run 24/7, how many months are needed to cover the expense of a new PSU...?

Now, I'm not familiar with the electricity cost in Singapore, so you should make your own calculations.

BTW, as long as vendors are able to ship cherry picked samples for tests (HardOCP has an editorial about this), this whole 80+ certification cannot be taken too seriously.

Cheers.

True that... at a conservative figure of 10W and over a 3 year period 24/7 runtime I'm looking at close to SGD90. I can probably sell off the HX650 for around SGD120 and buy a new Seasonic for $110. Seasonic is a good brand and they did OEM for Corsair when the started marketing PSUs. All in I'm looking at SGD100 saving over 3 years. Not too bad but not a huge amount either these days.

Certification is a step in the right direction. Energy costs are not going to remain as they are now. We just had a price hike last month and there's going to be another during the winter months as usual. No, it doesn't matter if it's sunny in tropical Singapore... our bill is pegged to crude prices even though the stations use gas.

On that note another HTPC I'm planning for my bedroom will be powered by an AMD E350 or E450. What's not to love... 18W idle, 35W load.

 

[Lonerider]

Update... Caution, hardware pron ahead.

Finally received my care package from Amazon. Shipping was more expensive than expected though.

Here's a quick look at the mobo/CPU. Personally, I like it. I'm now wondering if I should have gone ITX instead of mATX. I'll explain later...

My copy of WHS came in a day later. Standard OEM packaging... Considering I saved SGD100 despite the high shipping cost, I'm stoked.

 

[Lonerider]

Here is the source of my conundrum...

A friend of mine gave me an old mATX board. A darn good one at that...

Specs wise they are about the same in terms of expansion. SATA3 and USB3... I've got an offer for an AMD Athlon II 610e and an Athlon II 240e for about USD40 to go along with this board.

Now I can't make up my mind which board to use for my server build. the 350E is obviously more power efficient... The 610e is a quad core but power consumption is slightly higher but it does have more processing power under the hood. Both would serve well as an HTPC without needing a discrete GPU.

I'm going to sleep on this... right now I can't decide which should be used as an HTPC and which should serve as a server. I'm leaning towards the Athlon II as a server as I'm considering a CCTV card at a later date. Decisions... decisions... Your thoughts would be very much appreciated.

 

[loyukfai]

Off-topic: May I advise against using ImageShack for sharing photos on forums...? All I get are frozen frogs...

http://www.brymayor.com/tech/imageshack-image-issue-picture-not-showing-frog-image-2/

Cheers.

 

[Lonerider]

Off-topic: May I advise against using ImageShack for sharing photos on forums...? All I get are frozen frogs...

http://www.brymayor.com/tech/imageshack-image-issue-picture-not-showing-frog-image-2/

Cheers.

Fixed... thanks for the heads-up. I could have sworn they looked OK a few hours ago.