ASUS announces the new Quad-Band ROG Rapture GT-AXE16000 ushering in 10GbE

[SoCalReviews]

It's not always a matter of need. It's a matter of want.

Having two radios within a few centimeters of one another, covering a single band that you just cut in halves right in the middle will not work. First, filters aren't 100% "square", i.e. there is some leakage on both sizes of the covered spectrum, making the band be more slope-shaped than square-shaped. So, any channel that is near to the cutoff would still be causing issues with the other radio. That is not an issue with the 5 GHz band because there is a wide gap between the U-NII-2A and U-NII-2C bands. You cannot cut an available band right in the middle. And this would also effectively reduce the number of available 160 MHz channels, since you'd be cutting the band in two right in the middle.


So, you're complaining that hardware that won't exist for 5-10 years isn't available right now for the home market?

You are simply wishing for hardware that costs in the multi thousand dollars range right now out of a company whose market is the home user. That makes zero business sense. It's like complaining that AMD and Intel are only releasing 12 and 16 cores 5 GHz CPUs for your home machine, and that they should be releasing 64-core 7 GHz CPUs instead. That's not how technology works. The numbers aren't arbitrarily decided by the marketing department here.

These routers that Asus announced are already like 1-2 years ahead of what every other home router manufacturer has announced. They are even ahead of a lot of prosumer products. Technology doesn't evolve overnight, and products must match market needs. Right now, zero market needs for the kind of router you are asking for, and the technology doesn't exist in that market segment either. Unless you expect Asus to sell you a GT-AX99000 for 4999$ USD with the kind of specs you are asking for, and for it to actually sell more than 10 worldwide.

If you have need for business-level of hardware, then buy it from a manufacturer that designs products within that market segment. And expect to pay multiple thousand of dollars for it, because it's what that kind of hardware costs.

Good technical explanation regarding the need or feasibility of having two 6Ghz radios in one router. With such a wide band on 6Ghz I was thinking of a possible performance advantage of having the option of separating the signal interference and load bearing with two radios. Maybe use one for transmit and one for receive or ? Not practical to implement?

I'm not complaining and I didn't give a time frame. What is restrictive for the manufacturer to bring to the market right now is changing fast. Who would have thought not too long about people would be paying $1400 for a pocket smart phone or $10,000 for a gaming PC setup? But these are the same "home users" that would lay $1000+ down for a state of the art consumer/gamer Wifi router in the drop of a hat. Asus has desktop gaming PCs right now on NewEgg for $4450 USD and that's considered relatively cheap. NewEgg has AsusMB/AMD CPU based gaming rigs listed for $11,999.

These premium technologies usually make their way down to the general public fairly quickly. I've read many users in this forum replacing professional grade equipment with consumer grade equipment because the technology has evolved so fast. What people need is not always the same as what people want. Not long ago I used to think that 1Gb internet service seemed crazy and it's need limited for business use. Now it's commonplace in average user's homes.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Everything has a price, and although you bring up some valid points, there is only so far you can go before the price escapes the home needs. Most of the SOC chips for home/small business routers are built with limits in mind. Most major equipment is using full blown servers, or hardware specific routers, that usually consist of an X86 CPU or SOC, that allows them to achieve that theoretical bandwidth needed. Also, businesses are typically bringing in T1/3 connections or Fiber that can hit those target speeds, and possibly using QOS to spread the bandwidth to 100's if not thousands of machines that are used by their associates. You just do not see that in the common home, and the few that have access to 10Gbps or faster internet, is usually paying for a business line/connection to be placed in their homes at some premium (Think $300-$1000+ per month) which is not nowhere near where the common home user will pay.

The prices will come down. 200Mbps service for $49.99/mo is already the basic service from many providers like Spectrum.

That also can factor into why home network products have been slower to upgrade or implement features, and we are just beginning to see 2 10Gbps really be added and currently on the high-end at that and targeted at gamers, as they will pay that premium, to hopefully pave the way for 10Gbps to be the new normal eventually. Remember though 2.5Gbps/5Gbps/10Gbps have just started to become a normal feature on motherboards in the last few years, and still not a standard on the very low-end boards as of yet, and part of the reason it will still take time to become fully standard on a router.

If you want to go the multigig route with 1Gbps/2.5Gbps/5Gbps/10Gbps, then I would suggest going the custom route with building a Pfsense firewall and add multigig cards, with an adding an access point or more to the mix. That way you can customize to your hearts content in the price point you are comfortable with. That is the only way right now to get exactly what you want and have future expandability.

Apple has offered 10GbE ports as an option on their desktops for a few years. The new normal is just around the corner. It's already become a mainstream computer option for average consumers. Wanting 10GbE on a router is really a no brainer even if it's used in marketing to entice computer and networking enthusiasts. As a practical argument I could probably get by fine using my old Linksys WRT54G routers with 100Mb Ethernet for my networks. They still work fine but many would consider doing that silly.

 

[RMerlin]

Maybe use one for transmit and one for receive or ? Not practical to implement?

Wifi isn't designed to use two separate channels, because the radio itself is locked on a specific channel. although there has been some experimental work being done these past few years in that area, but it remains largely academical.

And do we want to double the channel spectrum usage when it's already problematic in some areas (which is what prompted unlocking 6 GHz spectrum for wifi use)? Similar issue to using 160 MHz channel width (which is another way to increase throughput, and is already fairly available, but rarely used).

Increasing the number of streams used by clients would make more sense right now if there is really a demand for higher wireless throughput. I hate that my 2-3 years old Samsung tablet is only a stupid single stream device, when my two previous tablets were dual stream. I have had buffering issues occasionally when trying to stream high throughput videos from my NAS.

 

[Tech9]

I've read many users in this forum replacing professional grade equipment with consumer grade equipment because the technology has evolved so fast.

How many?

 

[SoCalReviews]

Wifi isn't designed to use two separate channels, because the radio itself is locked on a specific channel. although there has been some experimental work being done these past few years in that area, but it remains largely academical.

I'm not sure about separate channels but multi-band integration is supposedly part of the proposed Wifi 7 specs.

And do we want to double the channel spectrum usage when it's already problematic in some areas (which is what prompted unlocking 6 GHz spectrum for wifi use)? Similar issue to using 160 MHz channel width (which is another way to increase throughput, and is already fairly available, but rarely used)

Increasing the number of streams used by clients would make more sense right now if there is really a demand for higher wireless throughput. I hate that my 2-3 years old Samsung tablet is only a stupid single stream device, when my two previous tablets were dual stream. I have had buffering issues occasionally when trying to stream high throughput videos from my NAS.

Cellular already uses Penta-band but I guess we will have to wait for 60Ghz Wifi to materialize (if ever) before we see a need for penta-band.

 

[SoCalReviews]

How many?

More than one. I've read users discussing how they ditched older pro equipment for the latest consumer grade equipment in several threads this past year.

The rate of change in technology has been especially rapid in regards to home and business networking. Consumer grade equipment technology and it's cost vs. performance offers a great value even for professionals.

With the evolution of high performance gaming equipment this has become even more prevalent. There is a reason why all these top of the line, high performance Asus Wifi routers are marketing for gaming. When is the last time you spent $12,000 on a Windows PC with cutting edge graphics memory, processing, storage and cooling?

 

[Tech9]

More than one.

Two?
Show me, I want to read too.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Two?
Show me, I want to read too.

I'm going purely by what I remember but you can do your own search or believe I'm just making it up or that I'm mistaken. Your choice. My past experience tells me that no amount of convincing or evidence is going to change your mind anyway once you have decided.

 

[Tech9]

or believe I'm just making it up

The storyteller is a different person. You can't compete.

 

[SoCalReviews]

The storyteller is a different person. You can't compete with your one sentence.

A storyteller that's it.... Why do I believe this is not the first time you put a forum member into a similar category?

Maybe because I've seen it before in a thread?

 

[Tech9]

Maybe because I've seen it before in a thread?

Probably. I use it when someone drops a statement and can't answer any questions related to it. I asked you to provide your source of information. Seems like you have a problem with that. I remember a lot and I haven't seen many users replacing commercial grade equipment with consumer routers. Here and there someone with basic requirements tries to save some money.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Probably. I use it when someone drops a statement and can't answer any questions related to it. I asked you to provide your source of information. Seems like you have a problem with that. I remember a lot and I haven't seen many users replacing commercial grade equipment with consumer routers. Here and there someone with basic requirements tries to save some money.

I don't have a problem with providing sources of information. I don't have a problem with someone questioning something I post. Maybe I did have mistaken memory or maybe not. But I do have a problem with someone who doesn't seem to try to engage in a constructive back and forth conversation especially when my past experience has proven to me otherwise.

How about answering my previous question(s) before throwing selective and targeting type questions back at me... like a normal, respectful back and forth online conversation is supposed to be....

"When is the last time you spent $12,000 on a Windows PC with cutting edge graphics memory, processing, storage and cooling?"

 

[Tech9]

When is the last time you spent $12,000 on a Windows PC with cutting edge graphics memory, processing, storage and cooling?

Never. Snow me the many users now. Thank you!
What home routers replace my 16x Cisco PoE access points? I want to know. Business equipment is pricey.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Never. Snow me the many users now. Thank you!

I'm not your information search lapdog that you seem to have a bone to pick with. I already told you that you can choose to believe what you want.

What home routers replace my 16x Cisco PoE access points? I want to know. Business equipment is pricey.

Congratulations on your pricey business equipment. I am sure no toys will ever be able to replace them.

 

[Tech9]

I am sure no toys will ever be able to replace them.

This is correct. Nothing similar is available on consumer market. What about the routers? Mine will go EOS at the end of the year. I'm thinking about 3x Netgate 6100 units. Any advanced technology on consumer market to think about? I need working Dual WAN and VLAN's support.

These premium technologies usually make their way down to the general public fairly quickly.

As fast as possible actually, barely working to sell. Enough experience with Draft X routers, MU-MIMO, OFDMA. First adopters pay for promises. Some never get what was promised. Some are just lied to what the equipment is capable of. Remember the first RT-AC88U with MU-MIMO and SoC with non-working MU-MIMO? Remember the nice pictures how the router shoots beams to 10 clients at the same time? Excellent premium technology.

 

[SoCalReviews]

This is correct. Nothing similar is available on consumer market. What about the routers? Mine will go EOS at the end of the year. I'm thinking about 3x Netgate 6100 units. Any advanced technology on consumer market to think about? I need working Dual WAN and VLAN's support.

As fast as possible actually, barely working to sell. Enough experience with Draft X routers, MU-MIMO, OFDMA. First adopters pay for promises. Some never get what was promised. Some are just lied to what the equipment is capable of. Remember the first RT-AC88U with MU-MIMO and SoC with non-working MU-MIMO? Remember the nice pictures how the router shoots beams to 10 clients at the same time? Excellent premium technology.

Good to be back closer to the topic. I don't really follow the latest enterprise/business/pro grade equipment releases. The last two years hasn't been helpful with product releases especially for the consumer based ones. With all the electronics component shortages there have been too many delays and release schedules changed. It will be another year or two before these problems clear themselves out. I am really waiting for any official announcements regarding the up and coming Wifi 7.

 

[coxhaus]

Broadcom has no SoC with that kind of bandwidth available. Neither does Qualcomm AFAIK. 3 10 Gbps port + 2 2.5 Gbps ports means you need an SoC with 70 Gbps of internal bandwidth (more if you also include the wifi radio traffic. Four radios probably means an SoC with at least four PCI-E lanes available for interconnects).

You cannot have 2 6 GHz radios, because you cannot have two radios within the same frequency range.

Home networks aren't even 2.5 Gbps yet, there is currently zero viable market for 10 Gbps LAN within the home networking segment. 10 GBps is very much a business market at this time.

These users would not even want to pay for a monthly 10 gig internet pipe much less buy the equipment.

 

[Tech9]

Good to be back closer to the topic.

What I think about this AX16000 router - it will be 2-3 years old when people start actually using 6GHz capable clients, not phones or tablets. By that time it is only a niche product for people who want "the best", but don't know what the best is. For you AX86U is the best Asus router, but for someone with no clue AX11000 is the best just because "tri-band">dual band and 11000>5700. This is who AX16000 is for. The 6GHz radio will serve one new iPhone.

 

[SoCalReviews]

These users would not even want to pay for a monthly 10 gig internet pipe much less buy the equipment.

They are already buying the equipment. As I mentioned before a 10GbE LAN port has been an affordable option on Mac desktops since 2018. 10GbE and 2.5GbE combo switches are available for $159 USD on Amazon.

 

[SoCalReviews]

What I think about this AX16000 router - it will be 2-3 years old when people start actually using 6GHz capable clients, not phones or tablets. By that time it is only a niche product for people who want "the best", but don't know what the best is. For you AX86U is the best Asus router, but for someone with no clue AX11000 is the best just because "tri-band">dual band and 11000>5700. This is who AX16000 is for. The 6GHz radio will serve one new iPhone.

I haven't seen any recent serious reviews on the latest Asus AX/AXE routers but I wouldn't be surprised if the year and a half old AX86U has already been surpassed in performance. I still consider it in the good value category which it's ok if you may disagree about. Even though I consider myself a technology enthusiast I would wait for 6Ghz to mature and prove itself before investing too much in it. I like that newer devices like the iPhone are adopting it. We will see.