ASUS announces the new Quad-Band ROG Rapture GT-AXE16000 ushering in 10GbE

[Maverick009]

It's not off topic at all. When following the previous posts the topic is directly related to the cost of high end routers like the GT-AXE16000 and whether there is a market for technologically loaded features like higher speed SoCs and 10GbE ports. I had made a previous post of some router specs I would like to see that go above and beyond this latest Asus router.

My reply you refer to was in response to RMerlin's original comments that expensive routers for example using many 10GbE and 5GbE or 2.5GbE ports don't have a much of market place for consumers right now. It wasn't the $12K price of a PC that was my main point. It was an example that there is a huge market for gamers and enthusiasts willing to pay for high priced equipment that is driving the entire computer and networking development. They pay a premium for cutting edge graphics cards, high end processors, networking equipment like routers and full systems. The business market is a large market but that isn't part of this consumer based market that we as Asus router owners are directly impacted by.

There is also the growing professional home user market where workers don't have access to the same equipment they had at work so they are upgrading their home computer and networking infrastructure. These users also are willing to pay a premium for higher end consumer equipment such as Asus routers including those marketed as high end gaming routers.

Even Gamers have a limit to what they will spend on a router. Those who build $2500-$6000+ rather put money that money into the computer build itself and prioritize what they believe is more important in the hardware purchases. When it comes to the home network, they will not easily shell out that same amount. There is only a niche part of the gaming and enthusiast community that will spend beyond $700 for their network. Asus did right by building the router specific to that market, but even they are prepared to possibly get less sales due to the price point and market they are targeting, but those who pick it up, get a well-made piece of quality hardware.

Even in today's market, you still get folks who bulk at a router above $200 let alone $120.00. That is also what helps dictate the market and why you cannot look at someone who builds a high-end to enthusiast base computer and think these same customers, will spend anywhere near that on their home network. That is why a lot of tech stays with the business market, and only begins to move to the consumer market as pricing comes down and there begins to be a need for that tech in the consumer space.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Speedtest Global Index – Internet Speed around the world – Speedtest Global Index

Find out which countries have the fastest internet speeds in the world. View global monthly comparisons of fixed and mobile internet speeds.

www.speedtest.net

You have to check some basic facts before you create the long posts. For the speed, gaming PC's, business users, high-end tech, etc.

It's not clear what you are saying. What basic facts are supposed to stop me from creating long posts? My long posts are replies to other people's posts like yours questioning my short opinion posts.

World wide speed tests including places like Africa, Central, South America, etc. is not a good sample size of internet users who purchase the kind of high end computer and networking equipment that drive the business, gaming and work from home equipment markets. I'm not saying that there aren't high end gamers who make high end purchases from those regions. But to assume that the mass majority of world users using speed tests have access to 200Mbps - 1Gbps internet service is nuts. A large portion of the worldwide ISPs are providing just minimal internet access to their areas.

Regarding my replying to your posts... It's my observation that you just love to bait other well known frequent contributors into replying to your posts then you knit pick their replies no matter how thorough they are. You get personal, harbor long term grudges trying to prove them wrong and then try to bait them again with personal or edging on personal replies against their character... like calling them "story tellers" or saying they don't check their facts, telling them what they should or shouldn't be posting.

Meanwhile other posters wonder how it got so far off topic but go figure. Debating and arguing about opinions is not something I like to spend too much time doing. I'm just here to trying to help other users with technical questions if I can and hopefully learn from other users myself.

I'm only going by what I have observed time and time again over months of observation... but whatever. You do provide a lot of useful technical help and information in this forum so in my book that's a positive.

 

[Maverick009]

There were replies to my post where I expressed the desire to see more 10GbE and 5Gbe/2.5GbE ports on Asus routers. They said there was no market for it. I was giving an example where 10GbE is already offered as an option on consumer equipment like desktop computers and it has been offered as an affordable option by Apple for almost four years... and no...the $1.5K to $2K Mac Mini desktop (which I myself considered the 10GgE port option for) is not a mid-high end tier Apple desktop. It was considered one of their least expensive entry level desktops compared to Apple's other desktop options.

10GbE is not a marketing gimmick. Even if users don't have an immediate use for that feature they want to future proof their equipment. Apple and other companies wouldn't be offering it at all unless there was a real market for it.

I completely disagree that 20 to 100Mbps is still a standard. I know of companies that still use twenty five year old PCs that run DOS and interface with them using ISA bus cards, Parallel ports and COM ports but that doesn't make them still a standard. If ISP's least expensive basic home internet service is 200Mbps why would anyone have anything less than 1Gb capable networking equipment? 1Gb Ethernet is already a twenty year old technology itself. 2.5/5/10GbE capable equipment will be displacing it very soon.

What is 10GbE and What Can You Do with It? | TP-Link

10GbE, short for 10 Gigabit Ethernet, is a group of technologies for an ultra-fast wired network that transmits data frames at a rate of 10 billion bits per second.

www.tp-link.com

High-speed network solutions

Upgrade your network with QNAP’s 10Gb and 25Gb high-speed solutions that fulfill intense workloads of high-resolution video editing, large-file transfer, and virtualization.

www.qnap.com

Ok I am starting to think you are saying this for the sake of saying it.

The 10GbE is not available on the entry level iMac/MAC computers. It is 1Gb or wireless only on their entry levels. The 10GbE is available on their mid-level high-end (or heavily apple taxed_ units) as an option. It is still considered a sales gimmick, as there is no real world need for it for the average consumer, but because it is more than 1GbE, people will possibly look at it as an upgrade. Even on DIY computer builds, motherboards that come with 10GbE are more or less only on the $400-$500+ boards as they are selling it as an extra feature. 2.5GbE is starting to become the new normal on the lowerend boards with possibly 1GbE still reserved for the cheapest board/chipsets. Apple will use any sales tactic and gimmick to get you to purchase their already expensive computers. At least motherboard manufactures build tiers and push the tech correctly in those designs. As for realworld usage, 10GbE would mainly have only advantages with NAS/Large data moving over network, such as video editing/archiving on the internal network. Internet would not really see that much of a benefit.

You may disagree, but the truth is 20-100Mbps internet is still a standard and used heavily enough. Yes we have 200Mbps-2Gbps speeds now available as well, but money also does the talking, and only during this pandemic, did we see a lot of internet companies begin to standardized 35-40Gbps internet as their bottom line standard entry point. We are still some ways away from 75-100Mbps becoming the entry point. Comcast for instance just began to indefinitely place a hold on data caps for their North/North Eastern customers, and may do away with caps due to complaints and the ever changing environment we are in, but there are still some locations with caps, so even faster internet is not always more beneficial and does not mean folks will jump immediately to higher speeds. During these last 24 months, 1.2Gbps finally dropped into a reasonable price point under $100, but I do not see that happening quickly for 2Gbps internet, as that is their current cream of the crop and considered relatively new, that it commands a $250-$350 month early adopter tag to go with it.

Does the market need 2Gbps? Not really. Does the market demand faster internet? Depends on how you look at it. Consumers, demand faster and cheaper entry into internet. Only a few select customers are wanting faster internet beyond and willing to pay the hefty cost beyond the 1.2Gbps tier. That is what drives the demand and/or feature pushing as well, and why 10GbE is not really needed, especially for internet, but more of a gimmick and sales tactic now. Would it be future proofing? In some regards yes, but tech also changes, and even in 3-5yrs, we may not move past 2.5GbE and at that time, a new computer may be needed, due to other more important tech requirements within that system. Time will tell, but there is a difference between wants and needs, and a price/performance balance that has to be struck by these OEMs.

 

[Tech9]

It's my observation that you just love to bait

This is correct. Specific people who generate big amounts of nonsense.

World wide speed tests including places like Africa, Central, South America, etc.

And here is one example of the above. The link contains stats per country.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Even Gamers have a limit to what they will spend on a router. Those who build $2500-$6000+ rather put money that money into the computer build itself and prioritize what they believe is more important in the hardware purchases. When it comes to the home network, they will not easily shell out that same amount. There is only a niche part of the gaming and enthusiast community that will spend beyond $700 for their network. Asus did right by building the router specific to that market, but even they are prepared to possibly get less sales due to the price point and market they are targeting, but those who pick it up, get a well-made piece of quality hardware.

Even in today's market, you still get folks who bulk at a router above $200 let alone $120.00. That is also what helps dictate the market and why you cannot look at someone who builds a high-end to enthusiast base computer and think these same customers, will spend anywhere near that on their home network. That is why a lot of tech stays with the business market, and only begins to move to the consumer market as pricing comes down and there begins to be a need for that tech in the consumer space.

You make some interesting points but I'm still going to disagree with the general premise. Hundreds of dollars or even five hundred is really not that much money for a gamer ($70 is now the base retail price for new PS5/XBox One series X games) and the number of gamers in the world who buy these products is massive. It's a multi billion dollar industry with production budgets that rival high profile movies.

They drive much of the technology and determine many of the products that come to market which is why a company like Asus comes out with so many products that are engineered, developed and marketed for gamers. How many AX86U buyers are actually gamers? How many buyers enable and use the gaming specific features? I know I am a AX86U owner and a gamer but a majority probably are not.

 

[follower]

Most of you guys don't have 2.5gb internet, 10gb NIC, 10gb LAN except so tiny of people right? But it's looking good right? It's so nice to show this to people right? "See? I have this!". Proud right? You can buy this anytime even if you don't have any suitable devices.
What's next? 802.11be year 2024?

 

[SoCalReviews]

This is correct. Specific people who generate big amounts of nonsense.

So you are saying that I as a frequent forum contributor... am someone who likes to generate big amounts of nonsense? And what's the purpose of posting this personal opinion of yours?

Thanks for proving my point.

And here is one example of the above. The link contains stats per country.

So you want to stray farther off topic into talking about speed test stats that supposedly disprove.... my original opinion that gamers help drive technology and product development?

I don't mind getting into world wide speed test stats and what they mean but no matter how I reply experience tells me it's not going to change your goal of trying to make this a character issue for you... big amounts of nonsense, a story teller, blah blah blah.

 

[Maverick009]

You make some interesting points but I'm still going to disagree with the general premise. Hundreds of dollars or even five hundred is really not that much money for a gamer ($70 is now the base retail price for new PS5/XBox One games) and the number of gamers in the world who buy these products is massive. It's a multi billion dollar industry with production budgets that rival high profile movies.

They drive much of the technology and determine many of the products that come to market which is why a company like Asus comes out with so many products that are engineered, developed and marketed for gamers. How many AX86U buyers are actually gamers? How many buyers enable and use the gaming specific features? I know I am but a majority probably are not.

You can disagree, but one problem to that equation. I am very much the gamer and enthusiast, and fall into that camp, so I speak based on facts and experience on this matter. There are things as a gamer we get excited for, but also, I would put more money into my gaming rig, consoles such as the PS5, Switch, Xbox X, which I all own, and the controllers and games I spend out on. The difference is also that for PC gamers, most cases you can find the equivalent game cheaper through the likes of Steam, GOG, Epic, EA, etc, but console gamers, in most cases, purchase that hardware as an investment into their console gaming and pay for the games at full price, with an exception of a sale here and there, but also they may spend less overall on games then a PC gamer, and at that they will barely if ever spend $500+ on a home networking router.

The industry can be a multibillion-dollar industry but cannot also be used as evidence that these are the same people who will purchase these high-end routers you want to believe they are. Again, even for a PC gamer and enthusiast, only a few are purchasing these high-end $500-$700 routers, but as mentioned, if they have a choice to invest back into their gaming rig first, that is where the funds will go. Asus coated and used a gimmick to cater to gamers, but at that price, they know it will not have as many sales, but I am sure, it also has higher margins, so at least every sale can help add back value from their R&D. It is more like a show case piece of hardware, but not their main bread and bother sales within that division.

You have to understand how that market works and even then, understand that crowd, before making claims just based on seeing pricing that customer pays for or throwing out a multibillion-dollar business. There is a reason that industry became that way, and not just on these expensive equipment purchasers you keep coming back too. I am one of the few niche exceptions to the rule.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Most of you guys don't have 2.5gb internet, 10gb NIC, 10gb LAN except so tiny of people right? But it's looking good right? It's so nice to show this to people right? "See? I have this!". Proud right? You can buy this anytime even if you don't have any suitable devices.
What's next? 802.11be year 2024?

I am also a technology enthusiast. I enjoy reading and knowing about new and future technology. It's fun to own it and experiment with it too. Wifi 7 is just around the corner.

 

[Maverick009]

Most of you guys don't have 2.5gb internet, 10gb NIC, 10gb LAN except so tiny of people right? But it's looking good right? It's so nice to show this to people right? "See? I have this!". Proud right? You can buy this anytime even if you don't have any suitable devices.
What's next? 802.11be year 2024?

That has been my point along with a few others. The features are nice, but for most it is a sales gimmick and more or less bragging rights, but the rest of the equipment needs to come down into suitable pricing to make it a real value. As you said, internet speeds for normal consumer due to even hit 2.5Gbps (2Gbps is a premium monthly purchase for early adopters), let alone 5G/10Gbps, and only real world use is for NAS/Video/data archiving options for a select few. All about supply/demand and needs/want. Right now the market does not need it and there is no over the top demand for it in the consumer space.

 

[Tech9]

So you are saying that I as a frequent forum contributor... am someone who likes to generate big amounts of nonsense?

Based on this thread alone with your multiple incorrect statements contribution - definitely.
I bite you only for things your fast keyboard contributed, but the user behind it can't prove.

1) many SNB users with business equipment move to consumer products - proof?
2) up to 100Mbps is not common Internet connection - proof?

Thank you!

 

[SoCalReviews]

You can disagree, but one problem to that equation. I am very much the gamer and enthusiast, and fall into that camp, so I speak based on facts and experience on this matter. There are things as a gamer we get excited for, but also, I would put more money into my gaming rig, consoles such as the PS5, Switch, Xbox X, which I all own, and the controllers and games I spend out on. The difference is also that for PC gamers, most cases you can find the equivalent game cheaper through the likes of Steam, GOG, Epic, EA, etc, but console gamers, in most cases, purchase that hardware as an investment into their console gaming and pay for the games at full price, with an exception of a sale here and there, but also they may spend less overall on games then a PC gamer, and at that they will barely if ever spend $500+ on a home networking router.

I would spend $500 or $600+ if I felt it added enough utility and performance compared to the AX86U that I already own. I have the PS5, PS4, Switch, thousands invested in games for all of them. I am not a PC gamer myself but I used to be. I actually was debating on getting the AXE11000 before it came out. I would consider the AXE16000. It's not as much the cost but for $250 I consider the performance and value of the AX86U enough for now.

The industry can be a multibillion-dollar industry but cannot also be used as evidence that these are the same people who will purchase these high-end routers you want to believe they are. Again, even for a PC gamer and enthusiast, only a few are purchasing these high-end $500-$700 routers, but as mentioned, if they have a choice to invest back into their gaming rig first, that is where the funds will go. Asus coated and used a gimmick to cater to gamers, but at that price, they know it will not have as many sales, but I am sure, it also has higher margins, so at least every sale can help add back value from their R&D. It is more like a show case piece of hardware, but not their main bread and bother sales within that division.

Asus knows better than both of us. Product development and marketing isn't cheap and what segment of the market are they targeting with their highest end routers? Hmm...

You have to understand how that market works and even then, understand that crowd, before making claims just based on seeing pricing that customer pays for or throwing out a multibillion-dollar business. There is a reason that industry became that way, and not just on these expensive equipment purchasers you keep coming back too. I am one of the few niche exceptions to the rule.

Sales, marketing and technical support for computer equipment, internet and internet services was exactly what I did for work for decades. It was my job to understand the market and potential customers.

 

[SoCalReviews]

Based on this thread alone with your multiple incorrect statements contribution - definitely.
I bite you only for things your fast keyboard contributed, but the user behind it can't prove.

Ok. It's all about that nefarious user behind the keyboard making incorrect statements. Got it.

 

[Tech9]

Here is something more for you to look at. You are in the USA, correct?

The 10 Fastest and Slowest States for Internet Speeds in 2023

HighSpeedInternet.com analyzed over 1.4M speed tests to find out which states have the fastest—and slowest—average internet speeds. Here’s what we found.

www.highspeedinternet.com

Get it now?

 

[SoCalReviews]

Here is something more for you to look at. You are in the USA, correct?

The 10 Fastest and Slowest States for Internet Speeds in 2023

HighSpeedInternet.com analyzed over 1.4M speed tests to find out which states have the fastest—and slowest—average internet speeds. Here’s what we found.

www.highspeedinternet.com

Get it now?

Yes, It says the national average internet speed test was 99.3Mbps as of April 21, 2021.

Of course ISPs have been increasing their base speeds for internet services since that time. I already posted in this thread how Spectrum increased it's basic service to home internet users to 200Mbps (it used to be 100Mbps as it was on 4/21/21 and before that).

Other major ISPs already increased their speeds or will soon be following suit. If you read my opinion it was based on current and future services. It also makes sense that internet services in states with customers in remote areas would average slower speeds. This is the same reason the average speed test would be slower for internet service is in countries that have more users in remote areas away from major cities that offer higher speed services.

Those basic speeds offered by major US providers will only increase from here. Your the one that has been insistent on looking 2 years ahead from now regarding the viability router purchases. Suddenly you seem to be arguing against the need for having reliable networking equipment that satisfies current and future needs.

I don't understand what you are saying you want me to get. What I do get is your seeming desire for attention by knit picking user's opinion related posts and extending the conversation off topic.

 

[Tech9]

Suddenly you seem to be arguing against the need for having reliable networking equipment that satisfies current and future needs.

No. It only seems to you. We've seen Asus' reliable networking equipment in just recent past. In high-end form (RT-AX89X, the first with 10Gb port) and in new technology (RT-AC86U, the first HND platform). You had AC68U routers and they started misbehaving (as per your opinion). Upgraded to 7-years newer AX86U and it's suddenly the best router you ever had (or Asus ever made). Well... of course. You have extremely limited view - "my router, my internet speed, my location". Extra points for not using "my customers", at least.

Have you tested your 7x routers for upload throughput? The threads about it come quite often. Your keyboard is not working very well there.

I have an expensive keyboard. See you in another thread. Careful with unverified/unverifiable contributions.

 

[Maverick009]

I would spend $500 or $600+ if I felt it added enough utility and performance compared to the AX86U that I already own. I have the PS5, PS4, Switch, thousands invested in games for all of them. I am not a PC gamer myself but I used to be. I actually was debating on getting the AXE11000 before it came out. I would consider the AXE16000. It's not as much the cost but for $250 I consider the performance and value of the AX86U enough for now.


Asus knows better than both of us. Product development and marketing isn't cheap and what segment of the market are they targeting with their highest end routers? Hmm...


Sales, marketing and technical support for computer equipment, internet and internet services was exactly what I did for work for decades. It was my job to understand the market and potential customers.

Ok I will spell it out. You do not understand the gaming market at large and the way businesses cater to them. Again gamers, are in a unique market which is a niche in its own, and if you include console gamers, then the gaming market looks big enough and square and that is in part why game developers may target multiple platforms and, in some cases, why console makers try and lock exclusives as they get more folks to purchase their console and provide the games, they want making money back on the licensing. Only difference this generation, is for a company like Sony, the PS5 is already breaking even and possibly making a small profit much sooner than anticipated.

When you compare that type of business model and try and apply that logic and thinking to other tech such as wireless router market, than that is where you are mistaken. Asus is just one company and builds a portfolio out catering from top to bottom, and in their portfolio for each category, they have a piece of hardware that is the showcase piece which may not sell vast qualities, but it usually carries high profit margins and/or demonstrates their leadership and platform compared to other brands. In this case the GT-AXE16000 is just that. It may have some features/functions that gamers want, but again not all gamers are the same and very rare do they go all out on that. A console gamer is even more less likely to purchase that type of router. This router is reserved for first adopters and enthusiast who want to get it and/or have a need for it, but it will not change the fact that it is still a niche product at the top of the stack. When Asus rolls out other models below this router, 1-2 of them will become the main attractions for mainstream users and what will ultimately allow Asus to recoup cost on R&D and marketing.

You are more or less justifying around your own needs/wants and not taking into account the demographic gamers or customers at large, who I guarantee will not hop onto a $650 router, let alone a $400 router in most cases, as what they are doing and need, can be had in the $280 and below. The average gamer on the high-end may spend $3000-8000 on a custom computer setup but will only spend $300-400 on their home network with 1-3% of that bunch spending significantly more. Why do you think Asus and possibly other companies are only adding 1-2 10GbE port(s) on their high-end product stack and still having limits on the consumer side? It is due to hitting a price point that is reasonable enough and limits to the tech/price/performance entry they are willing to hit and build for and what that particular market will accept as the maximum price for that said product type. If you ask Asus, they will also point to this being a niche product in their overall portfolio and will not sell nearly as many as say their mid-end to low-end routers, which are still decent. So yes, they know the product developing and marketing well, and why they imposed limits at that price point and not building beyond it in the consumer space, and why they will release at least 3-6 more updated routers under this product, to target customers that will buy in quantity, to offset that more expensive brand and allow them to making money overall.

You want to try and say gamers will accept anything and will spend crazy amounts on their network, because they already do it on their PC builds, then show evidence where it points to that otherwise as at this point.

 

[SoCalReviews]

No. It only seems to you. We've seen Asus' reliable networking equipment in just recent past. In high-end form (RT-AX89X, the first with 10Gb port) and in new technology (RT-AC86U, the first HND platform). You had AC68U routers and they started misbehaving (as per your opinion). Upgraded to 7-years newer AX86U and it's suddenly the best router you ever had (or Asus ever made). Well... of course. You have extremely limited view - "my router, my internet speed, my location". Extra points for not using "my customers", at least.

Have you tested your 7x routers for upload throughput? The threads about it come quite often. Your keyboard is not working very well there.

I have an expensive keyboard. See you in another thread. Careful with unverified/unverifiable contributions.

There is this persistent obsession with knit picking, belittling and trying to discredit other frequent contributors who are willing to express their opinions that may disagree with yours.

Engaging in any kind of back and forth discussion often escalates into an unpleasant time exhaustive experience. It only distracts from the normal community effort here for the goal of helping new and current forum users find helpful information.

It's unfortunate because you seem to have a lot of useful knowledge and information that does help users in this forum. I hope you at some point are able to recognize the previously described distractions as a reoccurring problem that isn't productive for you or the other members of this forum.

 

[Maverick009]

There is this persistent obsession with knit picking, belittling and trying to discredit other frequent contributors who are willing to express their opinions that may disagree with yours.

Engaging in any kind of back and forth discussion often escalates into an unpleasant time exhaustive experience. It only distracts from the normal community effort here for the goal of helping new and current forum users find helpful information.

It's unfortunate because you seem to have a lot of useful knowledge and information that does help users in this forum. I hope you at some point are able to recognize the previously described distractions as a reoccurring problem that isn't productive for you or the other members of this forum.

....I have not had or seen a problem with @Tech9. We are all entitled to our opinions and can have a decent conversation. The problem that is coming up, is you have disagreed with just about everything anyone has said, and it has felt to me that you are pushing your own opinions/agenda, but I also get where @Tech9 is coming from as there is a saying "Proof is in the pudding". There is no problem in getting excited for tech or expressing what you would like to see in the forums, and of course always helping someone in need if you can, but I did not create this post, say well the AXE16000 is not enough, and they should do more as gamers will buy it no matter the cost. This post was more or less to get opinions on the new router with the thought that at some point it may pave the way for the other hardware, such as 1/2.5/5/10GbE multigig switches to drop further in pricing, etc.

However, to tell someone they are wrong, and through different opinions or views without any proof or evidence, can cause others to fire back in different ways as it does not make sense. Let's try and keep this forum classy and be respectful.

 

[Tech9]

I have not had or seen a problem with @Tech9

Sharing knowledge is contribution. Expressing unsupported opinion is just participation. You're good.