Dir-822 vs Dir-823 (and where on Earth is Dir-823)

[u tu]

Hi guys

So I'm contemplating buying either the dir 822 or the 823 from d-link... both fairly inexpensive, at least on aliexpress (at about 30 usd) and both AC1200 routers, which is good. I actually don't need them for their ac compliance but more for that fact they are cheap and transmit 5ghz on 802.11n, which their manuals say they do. Sorry, the manual for 822 says it does, for 823 I'm only guessing it would do, since I cannot find this router anywhere on any d-link site. The 822 is in Canada, but 823 is nowhere. So firstly - any ideas where it is so that I could also look at its specs? And also would you recommend the 822 or 823? I know they are both not the greatest out there, but for the 30 usd and free shipping they are ok. I'm also buying them with the idea that soon I might have clients compliant with the AC standard, so I said to myself - might as well buy a router that supports that too. As of now, my clients can run on 5ghz on 802.11a and 802.11n and clearly I'd go for 'n' cos it's faster and newer.

My first and main concern was ofc interference. That's why I opted for the 5ghz. As it turned out, the DIR series of d-link runs only on the 5ghz U-NII-1, which in Europe (where I'm based) equates to an available selection of only 4 channels - 36,40,44,48, which is not bad and is definitely better than the crazy-overcrowded 2.4ghz, but still I'd rather have a router that (at least in Europe) runs also on the U-NII-2A band (channels 52, 56, 60, 64) and the U-NII-2C band (channels 100, 104, 108, 112, 116, 120, 124, 128, 132, 136, 140) but to get that you need extra $$$. So for now, sth that levitates around 30$ and runs on the U-NII-1 (and is N and AC compatible) would fit my needs. That's why I thought the dir822 and 823 are not too shabby, but wanted to hear more opinions. And again - where on Earth is the dir823???

 

[pete y testing]

Hi guys

the dir-822 uses the realtek wifi chipsets and are known to be problematic with client side chipsets , the 823 looks like it was a limited regional release but the same spec as the 822 with a slow ( in todays standard ) 660ghz cpu and only 64M ram and 4M flash plus it only has 10/100M ethernet ports

in the end you may think you getting a cheap way into 5 gig ac but in the end it might just bite you in the bum , suggest you look for routers with broadcom based wifi chipsets

just my 2 cents

pete

 

[u tu]

Hi Pete

Thank you for the reply. Appreciate your opinion! Well, this then now means one more variable to my pot of variables. The pot of variables now is:

• Dual band - 2.4+5ghz
• 5ghz - must be on N and preferably on AC also [but not a must]
  
• Chipset - Broadcom
• [perhaps] the 5ghz to include (for Europe) not only U-NII-1 band, but also U-NII-2a and U-NII-2c [this variable would clearly mean a much more expensive router]
• dd-wrt/openwrt support is always welcome, but won't be the deciding factor

I'm sure I'm missing sth, but those seem to be the variables of interest for now. I'm willing to go for a slower/older router, that doesn't even support AC, as long as it has 5ghz on N (even only on the U-NII-1 band). I'm saying slower/older cos the ISPs I'm around don't offer the blazing speed AC offers, so N would suffice, specially 5ghz on N.

So, any suggestions for a reasonably-priced router with those variables in mind?

PS
Just to learn sth here:

the dir-822 uses the realtek wifi chipsets and are known to be problematic with client side chipsets

Why are the realtek chipsets problematic with chipsets on the client side? Are all realtek chipsets so?

 

[pete y testing]

Why are the realtek chipsets problematic with chipsets on the client side? Are all realtek chipsets so?

mainly compatibility , they just dont spend the time getting the drivers right and thus issues

where possible always stick with broadcom on both client and router sides

So, any suggestions for a reasonably-priced router with those variables in mind?

i would look at some of the tp link stuff but you will need to spend more $$

how we know what is and isnt is google the make and model number followed by chipset

generally wikidevi will give you the answer

see

dlink dir-822

https://wikidevi.com/wiki/D-Link_DIR-822_rev_A1

 

[u tu]

Then this

https://wikidevi.com/wiki/ASUS_RT-AC1200G

or this

https://wikidevi.com/wiki/ASUS_RT-AC1200GP

would be it! Especially knowing that ASUS told me that the 1200G runs on the UNII1, UNII2a, and UNII2c. So, the price is reasonable. It is Broadcom, not Realtek, Ralink, Mediatek or whatever related to that company. And it does transmit 5ghz on N as well, if I'm reading correctly the wikidev where it says that

WI2 chip1: Broadcom BCM43217
WI2 802dot11 protocols: bgn
WI2 MIMO config: 2x2:2

indicating the 2.4ghz running on B, G, and N, and more importantly:

WI1 chip1: Broadcom BCM47189
WI1 802dot11 protocols: an+ac
WI1 MIMO config: 2x2:2

indicating the 5ghz running on A, N, and AC. Since there isn't any PHY called AN, they must be referring to A and N. That must be the right way to interpret that info.

Indeed the G and the GP [G+] version, which are Broadcom, seem the right choice - https://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=287041 and not the Mediatek version of the router. Thanks for pointing out the right direction, mate!

 

[pete y testing]

And it does transmit 5ghz on N as well, if I'm reading correctly the wikidev where it says that

WI1 802dot11 protocols: an+ac

yup if it runs the standard ac its always going to be backward compatible to wireless N standard on the 5 gig , your prob going to have to pay more for the asus than you had wanted to but certainly get a better product , you can also look at the tp link archer c5 , c7 or c9 as all are broadcom as well , the c2 however is again not broadcom

 

[u tu]

Got any opinion about the ASUS RT-AC1200G or G+? And yeah ... it's 3-4 times more expensive than my initial plans of the 23$ aliexpress dir809 or the 30-odd$ 822 or whatever, but I guess I should be ok paying the 85$. Been thru too much pain with bad equipment so the cost of quality is actually the cost of low quality. Therein lies the worth of paying the proverbial extra buck to get your bang.

Yeah, I have been looking at the tp archers as well, but I once had a tp-link (can't even remember what it was) and it made this extremely annoying, high-pitch sound. Sorta ... this operating sound, just due to its working. That sorta put me off. Also, I don't know if I'll have the nerve to go through customer support and all that, as I had to do with ASUS, in order to find out if and which one from the tp archers runs on more than the UNII1 band. At least with the ASUS rt-ac1200g and g+ I was told by ASUS that it runs on UNII1, 2a, and 2c so that gives some extra channels to fall onto when the 5ghz starts getting overcrowded too. But seriously, this is important info, which I cannot seem to find on the Wikidev!!! How does one tell, other than the painstaking communication with customer support, on which UNII band(s) a 5ghz router works? Gotta be a way but after posting on Toms hardware and getting nothing there either, I figured it's too tough to figure out, when in today's world it shouldn't be!

 

[pete y testing]

How does one tell, other than the painstaking communication with customer support, on which UNII band(s) a 5ghz router works? Gotta be a way but after posting on Toms hardware and getting nothing there either, I figured it's too tough to figure out, when in today's world it shouldn't be!

in general what channels are available is a regional thing and what the local laws allow as since the fcc change the rules all routers must be set and locked to their regional regulations channel wise

have a look at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

scroll down and you will see a huge table with all the countries and their regional ch range and regulations

buying from outside your own country or whats called greyware may bypass the local regulations but may land you in hot water with the local authorities if you are found transmitting on dis allowed channels , this is esp the case near airports and weather stations etc

I was told by ASUS that it runs on UNII1, 2a, and 2c

again this will depend on your local regulations , the codes for the channels are hardcoded now and cant be bypassed , so it may be capable of transmitting on all those frequencies but the regional coding will set whats actually available

pete

 

[sfx2000]

Why are the realtek chipsets problematic with chipsets on the client side?

Because the Broadcom mafia says so...

Realtek isn't that bad, honestly...

 

[pete y testing]

Realtek isn't that bad, honestly...

apart from they are cheap and used in pretty much every bottom end / entry level device out there so not only are they realtek they in the cheapest gear with usual very little ram and poor cpu speeds

dlink dir-822

https://wikidevi.com/wiki/D-Link_DIR-822_rev_A1

eg 660mhz cpu with only 64M ram and 8 M flash and 10/100M ethernet

there are plenty of ppl out there complaining about the realtek adapters and drivers

 

[u tu]

n general what channels are available is a regional thing and what the local laws allow as since the fcc change the rules all routers must be set and locked to their regional regulations channel wise

have a look at

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_WLAN_channels

Thanks for your reply. Appreciate your effort. I'm well aware of that link and of the fact only some channels are allowed in certain places. That is why I have such specific requirements as to the UNII channels! My source of info was actually this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-NII#5.C2.A0GHz_.28802.11a.2Fh.2Fj.2Fn.29 where it is clear that in Europe UNII 1 (partly), 2a, and 2c are allowed. And that is why I have these specific requirements. Cos 99% of the cheaper routers support only the UNII1.

this is esp the case near airports and weather stations etc

Yep, aware of that too. Aware of Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS) too. I know about the issues with military, weather, radar, and airport stuff. That is why my reading of the wikipedia link tells me that at least I can use more than the partly-allowed UNII1 in Europe and instead go for a router that (again, in Europe) runs also on the other 2 allowed bands - UNII2a, 2c. The reason being is the fact that only 4 channels are allowed on UNII1 in Europe so what good is that? Get a new, 5ghz router with only 4 channels? The whole point of 5ghz was the interference freedom and one gets that with more than 4 channels that's why the whole hassle about those UNII bands. The fact that the asus ac1200g+ is sold in Europe tells me the channels it uses to transmit are ok with EU law. I just hope ASUS didn't lie about the support of 2a and 2c.

As I said, it was only after exhaustive customer support communication that ASUS told me the AC1200g and g+ run on 2a and 2c. But isn't there some database out there, like wikidev, saying which routers run on which channels? Must be!

again this will depend on your local regulations , the codes for the channels are hardcoded now and cant be bypassed , so it may be capable of transmitting on all those frequencies but the regional coding will set whats actually available

True, but some dd-wrt persuasion is never a bad idea to try.

 

[u tu]

Because the Broadcom mafia says so...

Realtek isn't that bad, honestly...

It's indeed tough for me to know who's to trust. That's why I posted here cos I need more opinions from guys like the 2 of you so far, and hopefully others who post/discuss here. If I were only to trust the marketing staff of the vendors then they'll have me believe their stuff is the best, when it is the worst. Been reading reviews and all that too, but half of those are biased and, as we know, paid for - so again, pointless lies. That's why the only glimmer of hope of getting to the bottom of things, before actually purchasing and being disappointed is - a) being able to afford the time and money to test lots of equipment out there to know what's good and what's bad + you need to know a thing or two about the stuff you're testing (not all of us have a degree in IT) or b) if you are like me, an average Joe, with little experience, but lots of curiousity - you can read and post around in forums like this one. That's why I appreciate your coming into this conversation cos I do need to hear from more experienced ppl.

Again, has anyone got any particular experience or opinions about the asus ac1200g or g+? Yep, been reading reviews, but always better to ask real ppl, not marketing ppl or paid reviewers

 

[u tu]

PS

Prolly good to mention this (if it still holds true, that is):
The IEEE 802.11n/ac standard prohibits using High Throughput with WEP or WPA-TKIP as the unicast cipher. If you use these encryption methods, your data rate will drop to IEEE 802.11g 54Mbps connection.
At least that is what ASUS's manuals say.

And on that note - if I'm sure there are no other interfering networks around, should I force my 5ghz on the 40mhz? I think as soon as it detects another network it would automatically drop to 20mhz. So what setting should I choose? Auto or 40?

 

[sfx2000]

WEP and WPA-TKIP are processed different from WPA2-AES - since 11n/11ac use frame aggregation to enhance throughput (this is also why WMM is required), only WPA2-AES can encrypt the chain of frames...

With regards to 40/20MHz channels in 5GHz, probably best to leave to automatic... 5GHz has far less channel (and network) overlap issues compared to 2.4GHz.

 

[u tu]

WEP and WPA-TKIP are processed different from WPA2-AES - since 11n/11ac use frame aggregation to enhance throughput (this is also why WMM is required), only WPA2-AES can encrypt the chain of frames...

So if I understand you correct you also confirm what ASUS's manuals say - that is, that for the full speed of wifi one needs use WPA2-AES and not WEP or WPA-TKIP, right?

 

[e38BimmerFN]

The DIR-823 is a China only regional market.

Best performances are seen when using WPA2 and AES only. TPIK is good however is mainly for older device compatibility. WEP isn't recommended as it was compromised several years ago.

 

[u tu]

The DIR-823 is a China only regional market.

Yeah, 10x for the reply. Not gonna buy it, as it turned out.

Best performances are seen when using WPA2 and AES only. TPIK is good however is mainly for older device compatibility. WEP isn't recommended as it was compromised several years ago.

OK, 10x! Then ASUS are right in saying that using WEP or WPA-TKIP would drop the connection down to IEEE 802.11g 54Mbps. I really had no idea about that. Then it becomes a must to avoid those 2 and use WPA2-AES if you wanna squeeze out as much out of your connection as psbl.

 

[e38BimmerFN]

I would get something that has Gb LAN ports. The 822 doesn't. DIR series 85x and higher mostly have Gb ports.

Go for the WPA2 and AES, you'll be good.

 

[u tu]

I would get something that has Gb LAN ports. The 822 doesn't. DIR series 85x and higher mostly have Gb ports.

Go for the WPA2 and AES, you'll be good.

Thanks! What I'm leaning towards, for the time being, is the ASUS RT-AC1200G or G+.
https://www.asus.com/Networking/RT-AC1200G/specifications/
https://www.asus.com/Networking/RT-AC1200G-plus/specifications/
https://wikidevi.com/wiki/ASUS_RT-AC1200G
Yep, it has Gigabit LAN ports, as well as many other beneficial features mentioned in the earlier discussion. I wonder if I can get sth better (still allowing 5ghz on UNII-1, 2a, 2c) for the same price than this ASUS. In my area it is now about 85$ and it has been at this price for quite some time now! Darn! Been waiting for it to drop but I think it's been half a year or more now that it hasn't done so yet.

 

[System Error Message]

i would strongly suggest against d-link but if you do plan to use 3rd party firmware with them and not worry about hardware reliability issues than go with one with better hardware. If its just wifi you want the CPU and ram dont matter, only what wifi chipset it uses and preferably CPU connected ethernet ports.

Another alternative is the mikrotik RB series with integrated wifi. for $80 you can get one that has integrated 2 channel wifi AC, mini PCIe (you can upgrade wifi later), POE in, 1 gigabit ethernet port and 1 SFP port both CPU connected (not switched). Although you will need to get case and PSU as well. There is a cheaper one without mini PCIe and only 1 wired port i think.

I know dlink is cheap but both their hardware and software are horrible. Even tp link isnt immune to this problem but unlike d link tplink focuses on simplicity so even though they use simpler firmware they are able to make better firmware because of that reason. Even dlink's firmware security is terrible. Despite hardware reliability issues dlinks are cheap if you plan to use 3rd party firmware.

CPU and ram only matter if you plan to use it as a router for speeds above 100Mb/s, ram particularly if wifi is handled more on the software side which is so in the case of netgear and mikrotik where ram matters for the number of clients and connections.