What's new

EnGenius ESR9850

  • SNBForums Code of Conduct

    SNBForums is a community for everyone, no matter what their level of experience.

    Please be tolerant and patient of others, especially newcomers. We are all here to share and learn!

    The rules are simple: Be patient, be nice, be helpful or be gone!

Tim you had EnGenius provide you with a newer firmware for ESR-9850 which is the 1.10 instead of the 1.09. I guess you found what I found out with 1.09. They have a note showing your SmallnetBuilder on the 1.10 firmware. Funny how there is not mention of this firmware on the Asian site. I did a lot of tracing to see what firmware was available. Anyway I like to test the wireless again later today!
I did not have EnGenius provide me with any special firmware. I always insist on testing only with publicly-released firmware and have held reviews for that reason.

I asked EnGenius for an explanation about the note in the ESR-9850 1.1.0 firmware release notes. Here is the explanation:

We noticed in the SNB forums reference to a release note that refers to SmallNetBuilder.
That reference to SNB was only meant to be for internal use and should not have made it to the public release notes.

However, just to clarify the situation, we did not make the Firmware specially for SNB, nor has the firmware been altered in any way to mislead any performance test results.

Let me explain the those changes.

In previous Firmwares (eg: Dec 31, 2009), the Hardware NAT engine that is responsible for the very fast WAN to LAN routing, is disabled by default. There is an option in the GUI to enable the NAT engine.

When QoS settings are initiated with the Hardware NAT engine enabled, the routing performance drops down to roughly 200~300Mbps.
This is normal as the CPU needs to process more packet information. Our engineers at that time thought priority should be placed on the QoS setting and only allow the NAT engine to be enabled when QoS is disabled.

In the Jan 05, 2010 version, we thought that this is just too complicated for the typical user, and most users don't set any QoS. So we removed the option to enable/disable the NAT engine and just have it enabled by default. When the user sets any QoS settings, the NAT engine will disable automatically. This simplifies the setup and ensures the user has the best settings for their usage as we found that most users did not enable the NAT engine, even when they did not set any QoS.

This change is fully mentioned in the change log.

We already had planned to make the Jan 05, 2010 a public release firmware (as it is on the website), and it is on all units produced since that time. Our engineers also knew that we would be using this firmware on the unit submitted to SNB, so they made a remark on the "Internal use" release notes. But somehow, it was mistakenly placed onto the website.

I would also like to explain our Version numbering system.
You can notice that we do not increase our WEB version number for each firmware release.
For example there are many releases of V1.0.9.

You'll notice that the firmware filenames (APP and KNL) actually have 4 numbers. Those are the real version numbers.
However in the WEB GUI, we only show the first 3 numbers.

This is because internally, we have many firmware fixes that resolve very small bugs or only change default settings.
Our engineers deem those to be small changes, so the first 3 numbers don't change.

When there is a major change that affects the performance, base coding or Linux drivers, then the first 3 numbers will change.

So to summarize, the Dec 31, 2009 and Jan 05, 2010 firmwares have had no major changes done to alter the actual performance.
We only changed the default settings to simplify the set up process, and ensure the user has the best settings for their usage.
 
I asked EnGenius for an explanation about the note in the ESR-9850 1.1.0 firmware release notes. Here is the explanation:
Man, you got a fast response back... and quite detailed. Do you have them on speed dial? :confused:

I would also like to explain our Version numbering system.
You can notice that we do not increase our WEB version number for each firmware release.
For example there are many releases of V1.0.9.
I noticed this too on their website. Quite confusing and may I say dumb. I don't know of any company that does that.
 
Last edited:
I use VPN here I haven't tested that one yet though?

I'm using the firmware that was installed when i received it (1.09). I haven't updated the firmware as the changelog didn't mention any fixes related to VPN passthrough. I think I'll ping Engenius next, and see what they suggest.

I'm reluctant to update the firmware if there is nothing other than UI changes (as noted in the changelog.)
 
I'm reluctant to update the firmware if there is nothing other than UI changes (as noted in the changelog.)
Read above, there was more than just a UI change in their latest firmware.
http://www.engeniustech.com/resources/ESR9850 changelog.pdf

I would also like to explain our Version numbering system.
You can notice that we do not increase our WEB version number for each firmware release.
For example there are many releases of V1.0.9.

^^ That explains it.
 
Last edited:
Looking at your signature.. I am gonna ask you for my next Router recommendation :)

Its one reason his review is also important to add to Tim of SNB, if there is a stress test for interoperability, tipstir's setup is a good lab for it.
 
Fair enough. I've upgraded the firmware to the latest public version, and there is no change. Looks like an email to Engenius is required.

Really, I'll test it myself and see if we can connect to the Cisco VPN client via RSA keyfob (token encrypted passcode) to the companies domain. If we can't oh boy! The wife will come down on me about buying this router setup. On Asian site it's a Business Router Class so it suppose to handle everything VPN setting are enabled by default. I had no problem connecting VPN with Buffalo, Belkin N+ and the rest listed. I haven't tested the ESR-9850 as yet in that department. Upgrading the firmware to 1.10 only changes a few things. But for me under wired gig it unstuck some things that was annoying.

Again I do stress these router beyond what they can handle. I really like the Belkin N+ the's the only one I have that doesn't flash every sec. The only time it flashes is if a system can't connect wireless or when it was the main router if the modem wasn't connecting to the ISP.
 
I did not have EnGenius provide me with any special firmware. I always insist on testing only with publicly-released firmware and have held reviews for that reason.

I asked EnGenius for an explanation about the note in the ESR-9850 1.1.0 firmware release notes. Here is the explanation:

Thanks Tim..

I also got an email from them. I had to use my business account to get action. I don't think the average user could get them to reply back so quickly. This was in conjunction about downgrading the firmware from 1.10 to 1.09. Also that Monitor tab doesn't appear after the firmware update.

EnGenius replies:

Once a device is updated to a new firmware we recommend not to downgrade. May you please provide a screen shot of the monitor tab so we can teset that in the lab?
 
Really, I'll test it myself and see if we can connect to the Cisco VPN client via RSA keyfob (token encrypted passcode) to the companies domain.

Exactly what I'm using. I won't be happy if whenever I have to connect into work I have to bypass my router. Luckily for me it's not an everyday occurence. I still want this set up to work. I've been happy with it otherwise.
 
Exactly what I'm using. I won't be happy if whenever I have to connect into work I have to bypass my router. Luckily for me it's not an everyday occurence. I still want this set up to work. I've been happy with it otherwise.

Are you running 802.11n or 802.11g with this router? So you're not having any issues with wireless then other than the VPN issue you have reported? Are you using Windows 7? If so can you open up the Network Map and tell me what you see for the router? Image wise? They need to fix that on my side under 802.11n. Under 802.11g it shows the something differently. I'll have test the wireless tomorrow I'll have more time. I was very busy this afternoon.
 
Actually I was just using it as a wired router up until tonight, I was using another wireless router as AP, but I've turned on G networking so I can connect everything that isn't N compatible, it seems good.

I am using Windows 7. I notice it it identifies itself correctly in the network page, but if I map out the network, it only identifies at localhost. Was this what you're talking about?
 
Actually I was just using it as a wired router up until tonight, I was using another wireless router as AP, but I've turned on G networking so I can connect everything that isn't N compatible, it seems good.

I am using Windows 7. I notice it it identifies itself correctly in the network page, but if I map out the network, it only identifies at localhost. Was this what you're talking about?

Yes! I guess I'll have to send back feedback on this and the monitor tab not showing up. So (G) only is good. You need to install inSSIDer on the 802.11g laptop and see how in 2 hrs the signal goes. It should stream along, I have to test it again but not in repeater mode.
 
Testing 802.11n on the main DHCP SErver

Started testing, see I can see a huge difference from Belkin N+ and this router. This router is quicker.
 
Got the SEcond ESR-9850 AP wired

Disable more stuff this time around. Since both are using the same firmware see how it works . Good through-put burst in 802.11n only. Ran one of these AP then ran both in AP. They almost cancel themselves out. Odd. I know these are equip with Auto/Smart Best Channel features.
 
Disable more stuff this time around. Since both are using the same firmware see how it works . Good through-put burst in 802.11n only. Ran one of these AP then ran both in AP. They almost cancel themselves out. Odd. I know these are equip with Auto/Smart Best Channel features.

To run full 40mhz 11n speeds, you'll need to make sure they don't overlap.

You'll need to set both 9850's so they don't overlap, eg: 1 and 11, and also make sure there are no other APs in the area using channels that interfere with the 9850's (eg, 3 and 9).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Channels_and_international_compatibility
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n#40MHz_in_2.4GHz
 
Work-Lab Test Models

Work-lab Test Model #1

ESR-9850 used as gig Router only disable all wireless management
Test Subjects: Using port #3 and #4

AP Devices 2x

Belkin N+
Hardwired from ESR-9850 gig port #3 to Belkin N+ gig port #1
Operating in 802.11g/n only mode
Wireless Access Point (A) - main floor (first floor)

Belkin N+
Hardwired from ESR-9850 gig port #4 to Belkin N+ gig port #1
Operating in 802.11g/n only mode
Wireless Access Point (B) - upstairs (second floor)

Results
No Drops
Coverage in Signal Strength: Excellent 5 out of 5 stars
Wireless Nodes Connected (6)

Another method is to introduce a 3rd Gig Switch
Off load using the Router Gig switch to manage the 2x Belkin N+
Thus freeing up to extra Gig ports on the main Router

Dedicated Gig Switch for AP Management

ESR-9850 Port #3 into Port #1 on 5-port Gig Switch
Port #2 - Belkin N+ on First Floor
Port #3 - Belkin N+ on Second Floor

Note: I already use two switches dedicate for 100mbps and the other one is dedicate for 1000mbps client nodes connections. Every node (network client device) has it's own dedicated Ethernet connection (results a better through-put and low downgrade)
 
Last edited:
To run full 40mhz 11n speeds, you'll need to make sure they don't overlap.

You'll need to set both 9850's so they don't overlap, eg: 1 and 11, and also make sure there are no other APs in the area using channels that interfere with the 9850's (eg, 3 and 9).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11#Channels_and_international_compatibility
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/802.11n#40MHz_in_2.4GHz

But I have tested all implementations. Overlap or not still dropping. Not following the norm when it comes to wireless EnGenius.

SSID on the same channel, same SSID is one option
SSID on different channels (remember only 3 good channels)
SSID on different names on the same channel
SSID on different names on different channels

EnGenius Wireless Gear works best if you do:
SSID on different names on different channels

But doing so I still get the same issues. Where for some strange reason it takes a nose dive from -50dBm to -80dBm. So I had tried something else and not the reading have spike a bit.

EnGenius Wireless Scope

MIMO ANT System

ESR-9850 used as gig AP/Router 802.11g/n 2x 2dbi ANT
ECB-9500 used as a gig hardwired 802.11n wireless access point 3x 5dbi ANT
EAP-9550 used as a repeater 4dbi ANT 802.11g/n

I'll redo the testings. Results didn't looks so great. I'll keep at it.
 
Last edited:
Hold your horses here. I've heard back from EnGenius a while ago. Seems there's an issue with 1.10 firmware. So they sent me 1.09.63.
 
Some info

Network Closet showing: Senao - EnGenius ESR-9850 main DHCP AP/Router
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._388160442948_579882948_4067969_1459830_n.jpg

Trendnet Switches
16-port Fast Switch (dedicated 100mbps nodes)
8-port Gig Switch (dedicated 1000mbps nodes)
5-port Gig Switch (dedicated Gig hardwired AP nodes)

Okay this is where I stand now in testing..

Both ESR-9850 are re-flashed by to 1.09.63
#1 ESR-9850 is the main router DHCP/Smart NAT/Network Hardware Engine on
#2 ESR-9850 is hardwired Wireless Access Point 802.11g/n mode (DHCP, Smart NAT, DNS Relay disabled)

Tested Signal Strength

inSSIDer
Wi-Fi Inspector (link and speed test show good speed up on the second floor)
Wireless Mon

-23dBm first floor near the second ESR-9850
-44dBm about 25 feet away on first floor
-53dBm about 50 feet away on first floor
-60dBM about 100 feet away on the second floor

On the second floor I lose about 4 out of 5 bars main floor it's 5 out of 5 bars.
Belkin N+ have wireless turned off. To save power I'll just turn unplug them. They have ECO just like the ESR-9850 power saver on the wireless.

Heck if the ESR-9850 can stay like I can put the two Belkin N+ alway like the rest on my list I've tested and use. Just have to see what happen next?
 
Last edited:

Sign Up For SNBForums Daily Digest

Get an update of what's new every day delivered to your mailbox. Sign up here!
Top