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Game On for Wi-Fi 6E

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
A nice choice at a good price! I am excited about what will be available for me in the next few months too. I will be buying Lenovo too, for sure.
Keep in mind these are $CAD pricing too. Definitely a surprising good price for these specs, possibly thanks to the AMD CPU (although they also offer an Intel variant, but I didn't really compare them).

This makes me wonder if any of the current hardware is capable of using the 6GHz band at the hardware level, especially considering that many are not using hardware filters that specifically lock them out of anything above 5.95GHz,
Based on @thiggins 's investigation (he posted his findings in another thread), all the currently existing implementation he found were using separate amp/filters, therefore they wouldn't work even if the wifi was provided by a BCM6755 (which has Wifi-6e support at the SoC level).
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
This makes me wonder if any of the current hardware is capable of using the 6GHz band at the hardware level, especially considering that many are not using hardware filters that specifically lock them out of anything above 5.95GHz,
What makes you wonder? I previously answered this in the other 6E thread.

All current Wi-Fi6 routers, whether they have Broadcom 6E capable chipsets or not, cannot be field upgraded to 6E. None have the required 6 GHz external RF components and none have antennas that cover 6 GHz.
 

det721

Very Senior Member
What makes you wonder? I previously answered this in the other 6E thread.

All current Wi-Fi6 routers, whether they have Broadcom 6E capable chipsets or not, cannot be field upgraded to 6E. None have the required 6 GHz external RF components and none have antennas that cover 6 GHz.
Yep that's the bottom line. As a licensed ham radio guy i can say with certainty that mismatched antennas will play hell on the final output transistors. Routers will over heat and fail with a SWR mismatch and no way to correct it. Bummer though anyway. :(

They could have possibly planned for this and implemented some kind of a matchimg circuit to at least fool the radios to thinking there impedance was ok. A compromise yes but it would work.
 
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Razor512

Senior Member
In that case, this will be the shortest lived WiFi standard so far. Stores will be stuck with inventory that they cannot move, and sales will be horrible. People will either stick with AC and wait for the 6GHz stuff, at a time when many ax WiFi routers fairly recently came out.
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
In that case, this will be the shortest lived WiFi standard so far. Stores will be stuck with inventory that they cannot move, and sales will be horrible. People will either stick with AC and wait for the 6GHz stuff, at a time when many ax WiFi routers fairly recently came out.
6E is actually not a new standard. It's just new channels that are available to AX devices only.

This might put a crimp in consumer router sales, which is why manufacturers are going to push to make the transition to 6E as fast as possible.

But then again, most people don't know enough about what they are buying. They see the bigger number on the box and buy it.

Wi-Fi 6 routers should come down in price, with new high-end routers likely to be tri-band 6E.
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
Of immediate benefit - new tri-band mesh systems with dedicated 6 GHz back-hauls?
There was a Wi-Fi 6E webinar today and that was definitely a point many presenters made. Since a single manufacturer can control what's at both ends of the link, that is one product category where 6E can provide immediate benefit.

The Wi-Fi Alliance also presented at the webinar. They won't have 6E certification ready until early 2021. But lack of Wi-Fi Certification has seldom stopped early adopters from snapping up new stuff at top prices.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
If I had the budget and the opportunity to test a true WiFi 6E router 'today' and found it as improved over a top AC router as I found the RT-AC86U (see link below), I would buy it.

Not for any promise of 'better' in the future. But for the improvements I would be gaining that was shown 'today'. :)

https://www.snbforums.com/threads/b...ta-is-now-available.60037/page-31#post-531024


That would not make me an early adaptor. It just means I like the fastest/best possible (that I can afford). :)

For it to be truly usable though with the rest of the wired network, multiple 2.5Gbps/5Gbps/10Gbps LAN/WAN Ports would be a huge requirement, if the throughput numbers suggested today that 6E could reach are any indication. ;)
 

avtella

Very Senior Member
Hopefully by the time 6E devices come out AX routers will actually have all the AX features working in a proper fashion without those weird 5Ghz on dips on BCM units that thiggins review showed and it would be nice if more than 1 Multi gig port were on them, at least for the upper tier units.

As for your results that's pretty drastic L&LD. I suppose differing environments, antennal layout and positioning can also have an effect comparing models but your results seem far more drastic than I have seen in the wild, but if it nets you a decent gain like that in your environment than it maybe worth it. Interestingly in Dong's AX88U review and one other I saw, they showed no real gain in AC mode between the AC86U and AX88U (HT80) and in my testing between my old R7800 which I donated to a relative vs his new AX88U the R7800 did a fairly good job of tracking within 10-20% of the AX88U and I mean with the AX88U being in AX mode. Test clients being my Dell 7577 with an AX200 and an XPS 9370 with a soldered AC card; the Killer 1435 (aka Qualcomm QCA6174A), file transfer target was a NAS.
 
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L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Drastic isn't the word I would use. But I did test over a few days and took another couple of days to decide to keep the 'AX88U too. Throughout that time, the results were very close to what I posted back then.

For the reasonable, to me, cost, keeping the RT-AC86U at that point seemed like going backward. :)

10% to 20% of the 'AX88U is a lot of performance to leave on the table, IMO. :)
 

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
Something other than Intel?
Just received it. It's indeed an AX200. Current link rate fluctuates between 1800 and 2200 Mbps with my RT-AX88U in the other room (I'm using 160 MHz channel width).
 

det721

Very Senior Member
Interestingly in Dong's AX88U review and one other I saw, they showed no real gain in AC mode
I don't own the AX88 but do have the AX58 and testing this against my NG R7800 and my Asus AC3100 there has been zero gain for AC clients using a AX router. So i guess it really depends. I personally don't see how there could be because AC is AC. All my tests were done using 5 Ghz I don't use 2.4 Ghz at all and keep it disabled.
 

rmiller1959

Regular Contributor
Glad I stumbled across this today. I was able to sink some significant capital into a NETGEAR - Orbi AX6000 mesh system, which is apparently in high demand right now because most of the online outlets were out of stock. My Google Nest Wifi setup will have to do until the WiFi 6E systems come out.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
I don't own the AX88 but do have the AX58 and testing this against my NG R7800 and my Asus AC3100 there has been zero gain for AC clients using a AX router. So i guess it really depends. I personally don't see how there could be because AC is AC. All my tests were done using 5 Ghz I don't use 2.4 Ghz at all and keep it disabled.
That is already an amazing gain considering that the RT-AX58U is a 2x2 solution and the other routers are 4x4 and not just any 4x4 router either, the champ and the king of range too (see the @thiggins review for the R7800 and my signature for the RT-AC3100 Report link for further info). :)

Compare the 'AX58U to the 'AX88U to see why the gain may exist for your AC clients too. :)

AC is just not AC. :)

I don't use the 2.4GHz band much at all, but I do keep it enabled (doesn't hurt anything). :)
 

det721

Very Senior Member
That is already an amazing gain considering that the RT-AX58U is a 2x2 solution
True but they give all the same link rates to my clients 866 4x4 or the AX58 2x2. Likely my clients may be the reason. As far as signal reach the AX58U is very close if not the same as my 4x4's. Not sure why it's so close being 2x2.
 

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Throughput trumps link rate and any pesky signal indicators because it is a product of both (not to mention also traffic/usage or interference whether from other WiFi AP's nearby or non-WiFi interference that available WiFi 'apps' just can't show the effects of). :)
 

Toink

Occasional Visitor

L&LD

Part of the Furniture
Lenovo has stopped white-listing for WiFi modules for many years now. Sure, it depends on the specific model (I haven't tried them all, of course), but most are upgradable easily. :)
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
Getting off track, guys. Please keep this thread's focus on 6E.
 

Darcy

Senior Member
My question is will the WIFI 6 Routers that have been announced but have not come out yet like the Asus AX86U be scrapped and the focus be put on WIFi 6E now?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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