News Game On for Wi-Fi 6E

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rmiller1959

Regular Contributor
What you're seeing is likely the combination of enough people blindly throwing money at a problem (poor Wi-Fi) with supply-line disruption due to Covid-19.

If what you have works well enough, leave it alone. The timeline for new 6E routers will be Q4 this year. Those will likely be top-of-line tri-band models and will be priced accordingly. Unlike current tri-band, which splits the 5 GHz band into two groups of 4 channels (in the U.S.), tri-band 6E will have 2.4, 5 and 6 GHz radios. If you really want best performance for 6E devices when they appear, you'll want tri-band.

Tri-band mesh systems using 6 GHz for backhaul will also appear, but not sure when.

Thanks for the observations and the recommendation! I'm just speculating, but since the dedicated backhaul has been a staple of the top-of-the-line Netgear Orbi systems from the beginning, I imagine they will be one of the first tri-band mesh systems utilizing the 6 Ghz band for that purpose.
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
Thanks for the observations and the recommendation! I'm just speculating, but since the dedicated backhaul has been a staple of the top-of-the-line Netgear Orbi systems from the beginning, I imagine they will be one of the first tri-band mesh systems utilizing the 6 Ghz band for that purpose.
That would be a logical next step for Orbi. :)
 

winb83

Occasional Visitor
What you're seeing is likely the combination of enough people blindly throwing money at a problem (poor Wi-Fi) with supply-line disruption due to Covid-19.

If what you have works well enough, leave it alone. The timeline for new 6E routers will be Q4 this year. Those will likely be top-of-line tri-band models and will be priced accordingly. Unlike current tri-band, which splits the 5 GHz band into two groups of 4 channels (in the U.S.), tri-band 6E will have 2.4, 5 and 6 GHz radios. If you really want best performance for 6E devices when they appear, you'll want tri-band.

Tri-band mesh systems using 6 GHz for backhaul will also appear, but not sure when.
If the range on the 6GHz will be worse than 5GHz is it really worth bothering with? Seems like it'll be a wireless AD situation all over again. With 5GHz once you get 2 rooms away it could be pretty much shot.
 

avtella

Very Senior Member
If the range on the 6GHz will be worse than 5GHz is it really worth bothering with? Seems like it'll be a wireless AD situation all over again. With 5GHz once you get 2 rooms away it could be pretty much shot.

No, not really, Wireless AD was 60 Ghz... much much higher frequency than 6Ghz, it couldn’t cover more than a small room at best.

6 Ghz likely won’t be too different from the 5 Ghz band range and performance wise. You get a lot more open channels compared to 5Ghz especially for 160Mhz width usage.
 
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RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
If the range on the 6GHz will be worse than 5GHz is it really worth bothering with?

The attenuation difference between 6 GHz and 5 GHz should be minimal. 6e will just be an extension to the existing 5 GHz frequency ranges, it's not upping the frequency by a factor of 10 like 802.11ad did.

Wifi 6 (5 GHz): 5.170 GHz to 5.835 GHz
Wifi 6e: 5.925 to 7.125 GHz.

Maybe things at the upper portion of it (close to 7 GHz) will show a more visible attenuation, but in general, the step won't be as big as when comparing 2.4 to 5 GHz. This could potentially be offset by an increase in allowed transmission power - no idea if there is any change there versus 5 GHz.

Since that band won't have to deal with old legacy standards, it will bring some benefits in terms of throughput and stability. And it will also reduce the congestion issues of the 5 GHz band before they get as bad as the 2.4 GHz band.
 

lifereinspired

Occasional Visitor
What will be the early benefits of 6e? For instance, even without AX/6 clients, AX/6 can manage higher numbers of clients better than AC can. In a more congested neighborhood, would we see much advantage within a year or so from release? I know that a dedicated backhaul could be great and wouldn’t rely on any clients to see the benefits.

I’m asking because I’ve been needing to replace an aging (4.5 year-old) and not-entirely-reliable Netgear x8/R8500. I decided to try the Linksys MX10 but I’ve not been overwhelmed with it. Dropped out internet out entirely the first day and haven’t seen much performance benefits. I’m also considering the AmpliFi Alien, if they can get it in stock again. I know it’s supposed to have been range and speed than the Linksys but may not get the HomeKit for routers that Linksys is supposed to (eventually) get. I also like the screen. But I can’t decide if I should try to keep my current setup going a little longer till the 6e routers start coming out or to just get it and plan to keep it for a couple of years.

Lastly, I thought I read that 6e was just ratified but how does that differ from 6e Cerfification that another poster mentioned should be coming in early 2021? Are there differences? Will we be risking early 6e devices not being compliant with the end specs or with the recent ratification, is that not an issue.

Any thoughts or info would be brilliant. Thanks so much in advance!
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
The only potential "early benefits" will be for people who buy tri-band 6E mesh systems. IF the system is designed properly and IF mesh nodes are placed properly, backhaul bandwidth should be higher. This would provide more bandwidth to clients associated to each mesh node.

But, average users may not notice a difference unless their current mesh systems have overloaded nodes.

The real benefits of 6E will come only after enough 6E devices are available and devices move to the new band. This will take at least a year after the first 6E devices appear.

Manufacturers don't wait for either standards ratification or Wi-Fi Alliance Certification programs to be available. They ship product as soon as they can.

6E is not a new standard, it just adds new channels to 11ax. The most important gate to shipment, for the U.S., is when the FCC adds test requirements to its FCC ID certification test suite. I don't know the schedule for that. Same goes for other region communication agencies.
 

dylanmitchell

Occasional Visitor
... timeline for new 6E routers will be Q4 this year. Those will likely be top-of-line tri-band models and will be priced accordingly...

When will 6E trickle down to dual-band routers? Looks like the AX86U won't be a 6E router when it comes out.
 

iwod

Regular Contributor
Still waiting for other region's announcement. Looks like 2021 at the earliest if we are talking about World Wide roll out.
 

jpthsd

Regular Contributor
Uhm YES!! Luckily I didn't get those AX, Wifi6 router ....I got the AC86U to upgrade to AiMesh then maybe 2021 to get upgrade to Wifi6/6E when tech is more mature!
 

coxhaus

Part of the Furniture
I just bought a iPhone 11 last December. So it will be a couples years before I think about an upgrade. Plus my Dell laptop has an AX200 wireless card which I hope I can change over time. My wife has an iPhone 7 still and I am going to talk her out of upgrading until a 6E iPhone comes out. That way she will be ready when we change the wireless APs.

It will be interesting to see how many people actually install enough APs to cover 6 GHz in a home.

When I switched to 5 GHz only I got rid of all my 2.4 GHz devices. I may do the same thing when I switch to 6E. I only use 2.4 GHz right now out in the yard and 1 area in my house where we are not much. It takes 3 wireless APs to almost cover my house and a little bit in the backyard using 5 GHz.
 
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jpthsd

Regular Contributor
This makes me wonder if any of the current hardware is capable of using the 6GHz band at the hardware level, especially considering that many are not using hardware filters that specifically lock them out of anything above 5.95GHz,

It just makes me wonder what kind of backlash that would take place if something like an AP were to be released that supports the band, but ends up using the same RF front end and SOC as a previous router.

It may also need companies to not rely on planned obsolescence in this case, or it could possibly share the same fate as 802.11ad.

If the hardware can handle it, device makers should push out firmware updates to unlock it. On dual band routers with only a single 5Ghz radio, it will likely not bet much use even if unlocked, as to use the 6GHz band, would require users to force all of their otherwise 802.11ac devices to use the 2.4GHz band, but the capability of the 6GHz band will allow for a larger market for more devices to use it.

Then we may see subsequent APs get released with 3 radios, thus allowing the 6GHz band to have a dedicated radio. This will avoid the 802.11ad issue where for the most part, no company wanted to add 60GHz support because no APs were widely available for it, and no one wanted to push out more 60GHz band support on their APs because no client devices were supporting it.

60Ghz? 6Ghz you meant I guess? :) I was wondering if 60Ghz radio signal could obviously affect us LoL :)
 

jpthsd

Regular Contributor
I just bought a iPhone 11 last December. So it will be a couples years before I think about an upgrade. Plus my Dell laptop has an AX200 wireless card which I hope I can change over time. My wife has an iPhone 7 still and I am going to talk her out of upgrading until a 6E iPhone comes out. That way she will be ready when we change the wireless APs.

It will be interesting to see how many people actually install enough APs to cover 6 GHz in a home.

When I switched to 5 GHz only I got rid of all my 2.4 GHz devices. I may do the same thing when I switch to 6E. I only use 2.4 GHz right now out in the yard and 1 area in my house where we are not much. It takes 3 wireless APs to almost cover my house and a little bit in the backyard using 5 GHz.

My house lot is 6700 sqt, house is 1600 sqt single story house , it's fully covered by AC86U (main AiMesh router) & AC68U (AiMesh node) .... :) ...uhmm must be bigger to use 2 AP to increase the coverage area! :) nice though!
 

coxhaus

Part of the Furniture
My house is almost 3300 sqft that is an older home. No way to cover with 2 AP at the higher data rates of 5 GHz. I can get close with 2.4 GHz at reduced speeds. It not what you can cover but how well can you cover it. People seem to be getting it mixed up.

My shop, 2 car garage and car port has no coverage in the back. I have been thinking about it.
 
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Newfie

Occasional Visitor
I just bought a iPhone 11 last December. So it will be a couples years before I think about an upgrade. Plus my Dell laptop has an AX200 wireless card which I hope I can change over time. My wife has an iPhone 7 still and I am going to talk her out of upgrading until a 6E iPhone comes out. That way she will be ready when we change the wireless APs.

It will be interesting to see how many people actually install enough APs to cover 6 GHz in a home.

When I switched to 5 GHz only I got rid of all my 2.4 GHz devices. I may do the same thing when I switch to 6E. I only use 2.4 GHz right now out in the yard and 1 area in my house where we are not much. It takes 3 wireless APs to almost cover my house and a little bit in the backyard using 5 GHz.

what benefit do you feel would give the iPhone an upper hand on 6Ghz over a 5Ghz channel?
 

Fatawan

Occasional Visitor
Here is another clue as to how WiFi 6E will be deployed. This company makes the filters for WiFi CPE. They say it is the wild west right now. They already have a 5.2 and a 5.6 GHz filter(for tri-band), as well as a 5.5GHz filter that covers the entire 5.17 to 5.835 GHz band. This enterprise company(Cisco?) is hiring them for essentially custom filters throughout the 5 to 7GHz band. It looks like there will be major slicing and dicing of the new spectrum.

https://ir.akoustis.com/press-relea...-strategic-purchase-agreement-with-new-tier-1
 

coxhaus

Part of the Furniture
what benefit do you feel would give the iPhone an upper hand on 6Ghz over a 5Ghz channel?

None. But 6E is going to be the new standard so why spend money on old tech.

I also think there is going be a lot of talk about 6E but very few people will implement 6E across their home unless it is small enough that it just works. It will just be their new router. I also think the low 6 GHz channels are going to be preferred. Three years from now we will know.

PS
You might see a little snappier performance on the iPhone on 6 GHz if you have old wireless b and g around slowing down your wireless network. If none of the old wireless is around then none.
 
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Newfie

Occasional Visitor
None. But 6E is going to be the new standard so why spend money on old tech.

I also think there is going be a lot of talk about 6E but very few people will implement 6E across their home unless it is small enough that it just works. It will just be their new router. I also think the low 6 GHz channels are going to be preferred. Three years from now we will know.

PS
You might see a little snappier performance on the iPhone on 6 GHz if you have old wireless b and g around slowing down your wireless network. If none of the old wireless is around then none.

got to say my iPad is plenty quick enough with the AX router I have. 530Mbps connection rate is more than enough and I’m also surprised with the coverage.

Will be interesting to see where it all goes.
 

coxhaus

Part of the Furniture
Here is another clue as to how WiFi 6E will be deployed. This company makes the filters for WiFi CPE. They say it is the wild west right now. They already have a 5.2 and a 5.6 GHz filter(for tri-band), as well as a 5.5GHz filter that covers the entire 5.17 to 5.835 GHz band. This enterprise company(Cisco?) is hiring them for essentially custom filters throughout the 5 to 7GHz band. It looks like there will be major slicing and dicing of the new spectrum.

https://ir.akoustis.com/press-relea...-strategic-purchase-agreement-with-new-tier-1

I wonder if 6E will be implemented in stages to where the router will not cover it all to start with? Marketing probably only needs 1 band to call it good.
 

coxhaus

Part of the Furniture
I just figured out 6 E is going to be tougher because my wife and I have the latest Apple watches which prefer 2.4 GHz. So not only do I need to replace my iPhone but also my Apple watch by 2x. So it will take me a while to replace all this. I guess I am now in the boat with everybody else. I just went through all my wireless. The last time I did this we did not own Apple watches.
 

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