NETGEAR R7500 Nighthawk X4 AC2350 Router

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azazel1024

Very Senior Member
Ouch. That is one thing I am getting spoiled with. Older routers, seemed like anything you did, you'd have to reboot. Now with a lot of newer routers you can toggle settings without a reboot. Those that do require a reboot, well the reboots are often a lot faster.

My N600 router almost everything was a reboot and it would take around 40s for a reboot. My AC1750, most stuff can be done with a simple save and no reboot (and takes generally 2-5s to actually take noticable effect once saved, like changing channels, SSIDs, channel width, etc). Reboots, if they have to be done, take around 25s. Management pages themselves are generally snappier on the newer router too, though the old one wasn't really that bad.
 

TonyH

Very Senior Member
Hi,
Any way how many time one will boot or configure router once it's set up in daily use? I'll get my X4 any day now in lieu of X6 which I did not have much fun with. Feel sorry for my buddy down South sending all this stuffs for me. I'll see how slow it is and feels like. I already passed on R7000. X6 did not replace R7000. I hope X4 will.
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
Wondering if Tim Higgins has the R7500 yet for review? Hoping to see a review soon *smile*.
I have had a pair for over a week. Just like the ASUS, I haven't been able to get the pair (one as a bridge) to link at four stream rates in open air about 6 feet apart.

NETGEAR has advised me to angle the antennas at 45 degrees at close range. I haven't gotten back to trying it yet.

Review will be up next week. Data will be be posted in the charts before the review when testing is done.

I honestly don't understand why you guys are so anxious to throw money at something that is a "solution" in search of a problem.....
 

slidermike

Regular Contributor
I have this router right now too.
Updated it from shipped firmware to latest per a reviewers recommendation.
I downgraded the firmware & tested myself. I get better wireless rates on the newer firmware.
I use ie & opera as my primary browsers on my windows 7 machine.
I too see the slow web interface (both versions of the firmware) on both browsers.
The boot times are very slow I agree.

My main router is the r7000 w/kong dd-wrt.
I put the r7500 into wireless bridge mode for my pc upstairs.
The bridge reads as anywhere from 833-1170 on the connection but only gets me around 25-35MB of throughput. When your moving around 14-25Gb files from the pc to the NAS that just doesnt cut it.

So in the mean time, just to play around I put the new r7500 in as the primary router.
It seems to work well for that.
The adaptive QoS is impressive.

I was hoping this would work as a solid, high speed wireless bridge but for my particular needs I am probably going to have to fish a cat6 wire through the wall.
The r7500 will be going back but it was fun to try.
 

RogerSC

Part of the Furniture
I have had a pair for over a week. Just like the ASUS, I haven't been able to get the pair (one as a bridge) to link at four stream rates in open air about 6 feet apart.

NETGEAR has advised me to angle the antennas at 45 degrees at close range. I haven't gotten back to trying it yet.

Review will be up next week. Data will be be posted in the charts before the review when testing is done.

I honestly don't understand why you guys are so anxious to throw money at something that is a "solution" in search of a problem.....

I'm not going to buy one now, I'm just real curious about the technology, and seeing it evolve. Currently have an R7000, and it is fulfilling all my wireless router needs very well. But I'm curious to see what's coming, and how it's working and developing. Been in tech for 45 years, and still curious (in the sense of inquiring wonder, not just a strange person *smile*).

Actually, I'd be more interested in buying an Asus RT-AC68U to compare to the R7000 than taking on a new firmware development cycle at the moment *smile*. But not interested enough to do that. The R7000 is working too well for me.

Thanks..
 
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TonyH

Very Senior Member
Hi,
I got mine today. It's running now replacing WRT1900AC I was using. GUI is typical Netgear format. Couple things to note;
1. Antennas marked as two of 1, one each 2 & 3. They connect to specific
connectors.
I tried to Ohm out the antenna connector to see if I can measure any thing.
No reading at all. Think they are vertical dipole?
2. Signal strength at my family room got wee bit better like ~4dbm or so on both
bands. I did not play with antenna orientation for now. All stays straight vertical.
3. Dynamic QOS is different. Can let Netgear do it for you as you use the router.
For now I disabled it. Some thing to play with for a while.
4. Now can recover forgotten log in password or wireless password
5. Attached device list still flaky like R7000.
6. I stuck in a USB 2 stick into USB port, it picked it up right away.
7. Looking from front, right most two lights are now WiFi and WPS on/off switch.
I like this set up.
8. Few choices on LED control.
9. Seems to run cooler than R7000 oc'd to 1.4GHz. Just about same as
WRT1900AC when I feel the top.
10. USB, eSATA ports are located on either side forward. Easier access I think.
11. VPN, port forwarding set up all there but I don't know they work well.

Took about 30 mins. to go on the air with all the devices. Boot takes ~2 mins. GUI seems a bit slower but did not bother me.
Looks like boot sequence is little different. Router puts itself into bootable state first and then booting starts(my
guess watching it booting)

That's it for now. Over all I like/feel it better than X6. Just hope Netgear keeps up
to make it mature instead of leaving it half baked and going onto something else/new. I have a feeling
the dynamic QOS is related to Qualcomm Killer WiFi firmware.
 
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mediatrek

Regular Contributor
I have a feeling the dynamic QOS is related to Qualcomm Killer WiFi firmware.

The Netgear Dynamic QoS is Qualcomm-Atheros Streamboost engine (developed based off of tech acquired partially when Qualcomm-Atheros purchased BigFoot Networks) with a Netgear "skin" on it. If you unpack the source code on Netgear's FTP server for the R7500, you can see the streamboost package. The one thing I do not like is that the QoS database updates are pulled off Netgear's server and not Qualcomm's like other Streamboost enabled routers. This means to me that once Netgear abandons giving the product "attention" (which has been an ever growing shortened lifecycle), the QoS database updates may become far and few between. I know with the other Qualcomm Streamboost enabled routers, Qualcomm guarantees to update those router's databases for at least two years after the end of the product production.

I may give the R7500 a try myself in the next month or two. I may actually also hold out for a 100% QCA based MU-MIMO router (ie- uses IPQ8064 w/ a QCA9982 or QCA9980 chip). I put a hold on getting a R7500 once I learned it was a mixed vendor chipped unit.

Right now I am waiting for the second phase of the R8000 beta to start up. It has been delayed two months already by Netgear's firmware programmers overseas.
 

TonyH

Very Senior Member
Hi,
I had R8000 for few days and it did not impress me. Hence R7500. Giving away R7000 I needed another router to replace it. I don't play waiting game. When I want some thing I just get it, LOL! Getting is almost always free, so why not? Life
is short with too many toys to play with... My HTPC has Big foot Killer WiFi card, with this dynamic QOS it seems working fine all by itself. As soon as HD streaming starts real time to HT, I can see it goes into action giving higher priority and b/w. No router access via Putty or SSH(maybe no more new routers for this unless 3rd party f/w is used) WRT1900AC is back to stand-by duty.
 

TonyH

Very Senior Member
Hi,
One more thing on wireless setting menu, when setting mode by way of mbps speed like 600mbps, etc. message pops up saying b/w will be set automatically. This setting is jumping all over the place, does not really follow mode setting. This is not good.
 

wassy

Occasional Visitor
I purchased 2 R7500's. I returned my AC-87's.(used latest Merlin as always).. wired lan speeds seemed to have slowed with AC87's and wifi was not at all improved over my R7000. So far, I have only setup 1 R7500 as my main router. I am using an Asus RT-N66U as an AP, along with a Cisco/Linksys RE1000. I also have a brand new Apple Airport Extreme/Time Capsule wired to network. I have that setup as it's own network using same SSID and password, for roaming. Yes I know the RE1000 is antiquated and it is connected as a bridge, not an AP (no ethernet). However, I will have a Cat 3 run to garage where the RE1000 is housed and either upgrade to a better extender, or use both R7500 a little more strategically do get better wifi coverage. close by the routers or AP, my speeds on phones are fine, however, about 20 feet or more I see serious drop off in speeds, to the tune of sometimes under 1mb, and fractions of...

My question is having read many posts here and elsewhere, these new routers, including the AC87 can only use the MU-MIMO when using 2 of these devices wired together. Can someone explain that to me, as to why? and what the benefits will or should be? Also, are there any suggestions for extending coverage? I will say that the R7500 offers great wired throughput so far, on the level of my R7000 and maybe a tad faster. I keep it on a wall mounted basis in my rack closet, so yes, there is quite a bit of interference. Currently, for testing purposes, I have it on top of my rack, about 7' tall, resting horizontally, antennas up and out at 45.. I wonder if using the RT-N66 with an AC router will cause conflict in terms of speed? Bottom line is I'm trying to set up a roaming network with as little handoff issues as possible (the reason I returned the other airport extreme and express is a bit of lag on wired and wireless) that offers high wired throughputs. suggestions?

To add another dilemma, I am a TMO customer and with their newly announce wifi calling and Asus AC68 router customized for them, for $25/$99, I wonder if that wouldn't be there rout to take here. Perhaps use one as the main router, 2 as Access points. Downside is it's not wall mountable.

Per the above, is there any objections to have these sitting in attic, on ceiling drywall, coverage wise, or is lower better? They would be sitting at about 9' off the ground, maybe 10'-13' in some cases.

I appreciate all of your input and suggestions. I'm kind of tired of buying the latest and greatest and not really seeing much improvement.
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
NO router supports MU-MIMO right now.

These are rushed-to-market products. Stay away if you want something stable.
 

wassy

Occasional Visitor
NO router supports MU-MIMO right now.

These are rushed-to-market products. Stay away if you want something stable.

I know nothing supports MU-MIMO, but in your review of the AC-87 at least, I think unless I misread, that you stated that in order to take advantage of the 4 streams, we needed 2 of these routers. Maybe the 4 streams is not quite the same as MU-MIMO? what are the benefits of 4 streams, if any, AND, how would I go about setting up the units to use BOTH bands? for example, if I have a new iPhone, or even an older one, wouldn't it automatically use either 2.4 or 5ghz, but not both? I see the merits in combining bandwidth, but can't figure out how to use it properly. Sorry. LOL
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
I know nothing supports MU-MIMO, but in your review of the AC-87 at least, I think unless I misread, that you stated that in order to take advantage of the 4 streams, we needed 2 of these routers. Maybe the 4 streams is not quite the same as MU-MIMO? what are the benefits of 4 streams, if any, AND, how would I go about setting up the units to use BOTH bands? for example, if I have a new iPhone, or even an older one, wouldn't it automatically use either 2.4 or 5ghz, but not both? I see the merits in combining bandwidth, but can't figure out how to use it properly. Sorry. LOL
Four-streams pushes up max. link rate to 1700 Mbps in 5 GHz. There are no devices that can take advantage of this other than another four-stream router in bridge mode.

Dual-band capable devices should show you two different SSID's if the router is set to show them. You then choose the band you want. Devices are generally pretty dumb for band selection. You need to tell them which band you want.

A single device can use only ONE band at a time. No device will connect to both bands simultaneously.
 

wassy

Occasional Visitor
Thanks Tim. So what you are saying is that pretty much nothing is going to get 1750MBPS, 1900, 2350, etc. At least for a few years in the foreseeable future?

That said, for the most solid wired and wireless throughput with what my devices can handle (which are regular phone, AC devices, etc), what router do you most recommend? And for access points, would you say a Unifi or Cisco AP is a better option than additional routers in AP mode?
 

thiggins

Mr. Easy
Staff member
Thanks Tim. So what you are saying is that pretty much nothing is going to get 1750MBPS, 1900, 2350, etc. At least for a few years in the foreseeable future?
Or ever. Too many radios, too much space, too much power are needed to support those rates.

That said, for the most solid wired and wireless throughput with what my devices can handle (which are regular phone, AC devices, etc), what router do you most recommend? And for access points, would you say a Unifi or Cisco AP is a better option than additional routers in AP mode?[/quote]Unless you need AP features (VLANs, client limits, etc.) repurposed routers are fine and much cheaper.

Stay a generation back for dependable operation and stay with N unless you need AC.

I can't recommend a specific router. I'm happy with a Linksys E4200. But I have a 10/1 DSL connection with just my wife and myself as loads.

The biggest mistake people with lots of wireless devices make is trying to do it all with one router. You run out of bandwidth real quick with mobile devices because they don't support the high link rates that routers do.

Pushing router link rates higher and higher benefits average users very little because devices also don't get faster.

Enterprises figured this out a long time ago. Lots of APs, with properly controlled power and channel assignment that keeps them out of each others' way.
 

sfx2000

Part of the Furniture
NO router supports MU-MIMO right now.

These are rushed-to-market products. Stay away if you want something stable.

Concur, and I don't think MU-MIMO is going to be the screaming success that every vendor claims it will be.

AC1750 class routers are the sweet spot for price/performance right now, the gear is maturing on a SW basis, and we're starting to see more AC clients (2-stream and 3-stream) in the field.

Even AC1900 class compared to AC1750 class - most clients don't support the higher data rates offered by QAM256 (TurboQAM) in 2.4GHz, so compared to AC1750, there's no advantage here.
 

wassy

Occasional Visitor
Thanks guys. Sounds to me I might be best putting back the R7000 (which worked fine as a router, although the r7500 does seem a little quicker on wired web) and maybe buying 2 more and using those in AP mode. I am running dd-wrt in it and it's generally pretty stable. I'm thinking if I stay with netgear r7000 as access points too, it should be most compatible with the router as opposed to other brands, etc. Mix and match doesn't seem to work so well.

That said, per my initial post above, maybe I should take advantage of this new asus router (customized ac68) with tmobile when it launches Thursday. $25 deposit and no cost and $99 to own or for each additional. I know it's a highly rated router generally. Not sure if it will accept Merlin yet, but will see.
 

LoneWolf

Senior Member
Thanks guys. Sounds to me I might be best putting back the R7000 (which worked fine as a router, although the r7500 does seem a little quicker on wired web) and maybe buying 2 more and using those in AP mode. I am running dd-wrt in it and it's generally pretty stable. I'm thinking if I stay with netgear r7000 as access points too, it should be most compatible with the router as opposed to other brands, etc. Mix and match doesn't seem to work so well.

That said, per my initial post above, maybe I should take advantage of this new asus router (customized ac68) with tmobile when it launches Thursday. $25 deposit and no cost and $99 to own or for each additional. I know it's a highly rated router generally. Not sure if it will accept Merlin yet, but will see.

This would be a scientific wild-a## guess on my part, but I'm going to guess the customizations for T-Mobile are largely in the firmware; if you can re-flash the router, you do away with the customizations that make the router what it is supposed to be for the carrier.

One other note based on Tim's comments. The reason to buy an AC router right now may not be for the AC wireless. Note that the ASUS AC-68, AC-87, and the NetGear R7000 and R7500 have fast, dual-core processors. These allow for higher throughput with a fast connection, especially if you're using special features of a router (such as adaptive QoS, OpenVPN client/server, or AiProtection, which I think of as ASUS home version of gateway antivirus on Sonicwall or WatchGuard firewalls). If you have a lot of stuff going on simultaneously on your network, this is a good thing even at Wireless-N levels; my upgrade from the ASUS AC-66 came because of the processor being hit hard by the load demanded by OpenVPN; the AC-87 doesn't experience that issue.
 

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