RT-AC87R - 5G bandwidth for Apple devices

[M_M]

Are Apple devices limited to 20MHz bandwidth on 5G? I have just received the new router and all my Apple stuff does not see the 5G network unless I lower it 20MHz. I do not think this was the case with my previous AC68U. Is there something I need to set or change to make it work on higher frequencies?

I have also noticed that 5G seems to be choppy - should beamforming be off?

 

[Allograft]

Beam forming off, yes. I get 80 MHz on my mid-2014 rMBP

 

[M_M]

Which one, 802.11 or Universal or both? Is this for 5G only or does it apply to both bands?
Is there anything that could be interfering with 80 MHz - none of my Apple devices can see 5G band unless it is 20MHz: this includes 3rd gen iPad, mid 2014 MBP, a bit older Power Mac or iPhone 6
Thanks a lot!

 

[Jong]

Both 5Ghz beamforming options need to be off with current firmware (They are turned off by default anyway). You can leave 2.4Ghz BF on. You don't say which firmware you are on, but you should make sure you are on the latest OFFICIAL firmware 378.4950 (or RMerlin .52), which has significant changes that improve 5Ghz, some specific to improving iDevices. With all that in place 80Mhz bands work close to perfectly. Although, as ever with wifi (even 5Ghz) you might need to do a site survey with a tool like InSSIDer to check you don't have local interference. Regardless of the "auto" setting, a lot of routers seem to just use the bottom band pretty much regardless, out of the box.

 

[Allograft]

The only settings I changed on the 4950 were:
setting up SSID and password for main network, I use same SSID for 2.4 and 5
setting up one 2.4 guest network and one 5 guest network
MAC filter for main network.

Everything else is default for 4950, and it's working well for several days now
I've got:
1 mid 2014-rMBP running 10.10.3
1 late 2012 MBA running Mavericks
1 mid 2014 MBA running Mavericks
1 HP windows 7 laptop
1 HP multifunction
1 HP printer
1 Toshiba windows XP laptop
1 iPhone 5s on 8.2
2 iPhone 5s's on 7.X
1 iPhone 6 on 8.3
1 IpadAir 2
1 retina Ipad mini
1 Samsung Galaxy Tab S

so far, no significant concerns

 

[M_M]

Thank you all for your replies. I'm on 4950 and everything is set to default except for SSIDs, some port forwarding and a few static IPs.
Now, I guess I'm a bit confused about beamforming - it is more about the interface- I have not touched these settings yet, but the buttons show "Enable" - does it mean that in this state they are enabled or disabled?

For those that 5G works fine with Apple stuff on 80MHz, do you keep "Control Channel" and "Extension Channel" on "Auto"?

Later I will download InSSIDer to see what kind of gremlins might live in my house that prevent 5G to be seen by any of my Apple stuff unless it is set to 20 MHz, but can anyone think of any reason this might be happening?

 

[Jong]

Sounds like you have 5Ghz BF on. Did you do a full reset when you upgraded to 4950, because the default for this is off? I would, for sure, turn them off anyway. If you didn't do a full reset when you upgraded I would now. Several of us have had very odd gremlins due to dodgy upgrades, even when we tried to reset. If you did try to reset, try again - reset, upgrade firmware again, reset again and then MANUALLY re-input settings. This sounds like the most likely cause of your 20Mhz problem, other than a strong competing wifi signal on the same band, because it's very odd (not heard of it before).

Unless you buy the hardware widget, InSSIDer will not check for home equipment interference, but fortunately there is little of that at 5Ghz. But it will check for neighbourhood wifi that is interfering and will show you your signal strength throughout your house.

Regarding channels/bands, 80Mhz should be fine for 5Ghz; No need to reduce. For channels, auto is great if it works. If you have problems it probably isn't! When choosing a channel there is a balance to strike and it depends on your country to some extent. Ideally, you'd like a clear non-"DFS" channel (Google it if you don't know what it is). Some places, like the UK have only one 80Mhz band that does not need DFS; that makes it tricky - Most routers will try to use that one 80Mhz band so it can be congested. If that band has strong signals already on it, you might want to try a higher band - non-DFS if available. If you have to go for a DFS channel, you will need to check it over a few days to see if you get kicked off it due to radar detection and change channel if you do. Also, not all devices support all higher bands, so you will need to check all your devices are happy with whatever channel you choose.

 

[Deleted member 22229]

AC68U here and 80 mhz works fine with both my ipad mini and iphone 5 and 6. I use auto for devices and manual set channel to 157 although i have tried the lower channels and that works good as well.

 

[Jong]

Yeah, if it's not clear, the AC87 with 4950 and BF off works great too.

I have: iPhone 6, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5s, iPhone 5, iPad Mini 2, iPad Mini, iPad 2 all using my AC87 Router and AC87 AP and they are all totally happy. As I happens I am using 80Mhz up from CH36 on my router and 80Mhz down from 64 on my AP, but that is obviously situationally dependent.

 

[M_M]

I have to admit, I did not reset after upgrading, as I always do, but I figured since I had just unboxed a brand new router and did not change anything except for creating SSIDs before upgrading it to the latest firmware, it may not be necessary. I will reset it tonight, install the firmware again, reset it and set it up from scratch - hopefully this will fix the issue. I will report back tomorrow.

 

[Jong]

One golden rule is the router needs a hard reset when the wifi radio firmware is updated and that happened with 4950 (specifically improving 5Ghz performance).

 

[lexist2112]

Check to see if your on the latest FW which was released on 4/2/2015

http://www.asus.com/us/Networking/RTAC87U/HelpDesk_Download/

ASUS RT-AC87U Firmware version 3.0.0.4.378.4950
[Important] Because added the patch for 5GHz, please press and hold the reset button more
than 5 seconds to reset the router after firmware updated to avoid compatibility issue.

- Added workaround for iPhone6 wireless unstable issue.
- Fixed the denying intranet access issue in 5GHz guest network.
- Fixed the UI issue when switched to AP mode from media bridge mode.
- Supported ZTE MF193A USB LTE dongle.

MD5: 242fe3dd0acfc7b4e129edd453ccb278

 

[M_M]

Ok, so I reset the router several times (to be sure) reinstalled the firmware, then another reset - this brought it back to factory settings - beamforming got turned off as well as a couple other settings were straightened out, however to my surprise, 5G was still not seen by any of my Apple devices, as it was switched by default to the 80MHz bandwidth.
I walked around the house with my iPad to see if 5G was available anywhere, it wasn't, not even in the basement, a foot from the router. When I went back upstairs, I walked by the 3G/4G/LTE signal booster form T-Mobile and just to try something new, I unplugged it from the wall socket and in an instant my 5G WiFi showed on my iPad.
I've had this booster for several months and it had never interfered with my WiFi, but apparently when something goes wrong with it, it can completely block 5G WiFi on 80MHz - if it is doing this to WiFi, what is it doing to me?

The funniest thing is that I bought the AC87R because all of a sudden 5G stopped working on my AC68U, now I know why - $250 and countless hours resetting, flashing firmware on the 68U, not including setting up and troubleshooting the AC87r later, I find that the gremlin lives in the signal booster.

Strangely enough, when I plugged the booster back ( and I checked, it is actually boosting my cell signal ) it is no longer interfering with my 5G WiFi on 80MHz, so when something goes temporarily wrong with it ( maybe someone might have a clue as to what that might be) it is capable of totally blocking WiFi. That is scary.

Now, my 3rd gen iPad seems to hold on to the 5G band, but my iPhone 6 constantly switches back to 2.4G, so I'm not sure if the workaround that is included in the latest firmware is working for everyone, it is not working for my phone. Anything I should do or try to possibly fix it?

Thanks again

 

[Jong]

Wow! Thanks for updating us.

My iPhone6 is very happy on 5GHz. I do notice all ac iDevices, but especially the iPhone, will switch to 2.4Ghz when sleeping in a corner. I imagine it's a power saving thing. But mine, for sure, switches pretty rapidly back to 5Ghz when it's used. Of course if you are near the edge of 5Ghz range it will be different.

I might be imagining things but I also think they seem to stay significantly more on 5Ghz now than when I first upgraded to 4950! So, I'm not sure if there is some longer term performance history being kept that leads to 5Ghz, if good, being used more after a few days. Probably my imagination but, as you have just proved, you never know with technology!!

 

[Jong]

By the way, are you using the same SSID for 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. Unless you really want to segregate the two, I'd suggest you do. It will make it easier for things to roam sensibly and effectively. For instance, if your iPhone is currently sticking on 2.4Ghz it might roam back to 5Ghz quicker; worth a try anyway! For sure it will help with maintaining connection as you roam - AirPlay will continue, for example.

 

[M_M]

They share the same password, but each has a unique name. If they were the same, how would you know what band each device is on without going to the router's UI? I do have a problem with AirPlay however, it stops playing suddenly and I can't seem to restart it on my iPad no matter what I do, but the iPad seems to stick to the 5G, so maybe it is a whole new problem within the iPad. It is hard to troubleshoot this as all these little problems are happening at the same time and it is impossible to figure out what is responsible for what.

 

[Allograft]

I'm using the same ssid and same password. Works great going back and forth, I don't care what band anything is on, i just want them to work. If i need to see the band, macbook shows it easily, iOS devices have some apps that will show speed so that can give a clue, but the ui can be easily enough accessed from any device that is on the network anyway right?

 

[L&LD]

While seeing what band the device is connected to is fine in itself it is not the same thing as being able to choose the band as needed. With performance on both bands being enough for your present usage, that may change due to other networks crowding you or other future issues and then needing to connect to a certain band or the other may become critical. With the same ssid for both, this will be harder to troubleshoot too.

 

[Allograft]

I sure hope it doesn't get anymore congested where I'm at. I'm in the middle of a city where there are at least 30 or so 2.4 networks and at least a dozen 5 hgz networks in view at any time...well, I guess that's prosperity

 

[Jong]

Once everything is roaming properly you don't need to know what band you're on, day to day. You just know your devices are doing sensible things. The big thing about using the same SSID is that the device knows it is connecting to the same network. It can keep an AirPlay session going, for example. If it thinks it's joining a new network all that is off the table.