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UPnP - Multiple Xbox One Gaming Consoles & NAT

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev

huffmyia

New Around Here
One additional configuration change I made to the ASUS RT-AC5300.

LAN - DHCP Server - Advertise Router's IP In Addition To User-Specified DNS - NO (from YES)

All seems to be working well with the above changes. I still have OPEN NAT when checking both Xbox One gaming consoles (NETWORK' dashboard). I haven't been able to check the NAT status within the COD: BO3 MP dashboard however, Battlefield 1 MP gaming went exceptionally well without any issues. I must say that this is one of my top three favorite ruuters I've ever used / owned (D'Link DIR-890L & D'Link DIR-868L).

Stay Tuned........
I stumbled upon this thread trying to find settings to achieve "Open Nat" on Xbox One for my newly purchased RT-AC68U running the latest firmware. I am currently using 3 Xbox One's connected to the router hard wired. My configuration is Modem > RT-AC68U > Xbox One's. I am currently "Open Nat" on all three Xbox One's by changing power settings on Xbox and only using your change settings of:
LAN - Switch Control: Nat Acceleration - DISABLE (from AUTO)
WAN - Nat Passthrough: SIP Passthrough - DISABLE (from ENABLED + NAT HELPER)

Great thread!
 

matthew johnson

Regular Contributor
Merlin if you dont mind me asking what upnp client does asus run on stock firmware? Is it the same mini upnp client? Also out of curiosty is there other upnp clients that can be ran in asus routers?
 

RMerlin

Asuswrt-Merlin dev
Merlin if you dont mind me asking what upnp client does asus run on stock firmware? Is it the same mini upnp client? Also out of curiosty is there other upnp clients that can be ran in asus routers?
It's also miniupnpd, but it's a slightly older version (I believe they recently updated to 1.9, before that it was a much older version from 2011).

I'm using the latest 2.0 release. I also enable PCP support (I don't think Asus does).

There are some other daemons out there, but I have no idea how trivial it would be for someone to manually install and configure them. They would certainly not be as well integrated with the firmware, so they might conflict with certain features such as AiProtection or Adaptive QoS. See what Entware has to offer, and experiment with it.
 

Bonez

Occasional Visitor
I stumbled upon this thread trying to find settings to achieve "Open Nat" on Xbox One for my newly purchased RT-AC68U running the latest firmware.
Hey guys - interestingly enough, I just stumbled in as well for similar reasons. I had an RT-N66U w/Merlin's firmware running stable for years with just fw upgrades when available (a million thanks for all the work, Merlin) and had no issues with two XBox One's running behind it ever.

I just upgraded to an RT-AC87U to get AC capabilities since I've got enough of those devices now, plopped on the latest Merlin firmware, and shortly thereafter, had trouble tickets submitted from the kids. In short, Kid #1 can't join Kid #2's fireteam in Destiny (e.g. they can't play and chat together). I disabled instant-on long ago.

Looking past the non-solution of two public IPs/two routers/two networks as well as the 'open' vs 'restricted' nonsense... is there anything fundamentally different about uPNP between the RT-N66U and the RT-AC87U that might explain things? Specifically around leasing durations and/or renewals?

Also 'back in the day', the issues I worked past had to do with uPNP going stale after a period of time causing one of the xboxes to be unreachable or something like that. I seem to recall that the xbox consoles weren't properly renewing their uPNP lease or something and so once it timed out, things broke. That seems to be the issue again since I can workaround the current problem temporarily by a)turning both xbox ones fully off, b)rebooting the AC87U, c)turning both xbox ones on. After doing this, they can always 'play together' again. FWIW, I haven't allowed lower than 1024 on allowed internal port range yet nor turned off NAT acceleration.

Also for anyone interested, here's a post from a thread that looks specifically at the differences between full power off and instant on wrt uPNP... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=142546231&postcount=118 - makes me wonder if the issue is if they play separate long enough (past the uPNP lease expiration), then try to play together, that's part of the issue...and maybe the Xbox ones are also not renewing their leases properly after a period of time similar to when they're in 'instant on' mode.

I'm going to start digging into logs myself to see what I can find the next time the kids report an issue vs just working around the problem. There also appears to be a way to force an xbox one to renew it's uPNP leases without rebooting by perform the "test multiplayer connection" test in the settings app and then once it finishes, hold LT + RT + LB + RB and an advanced screen will appear. During the advanced screen, the Xbox will attempt to renew its UPnP leases. I might try that as well.
 

Bonez

Occasional Visitor
I'm going to start digging into logs myself to see what I can find the next time the kids report an issue vs just working around the problem. There also appears to be a way to force an xbox one to renew it's uPNP leases without rebooting by perform the "test multiplayer connection" test in the settings app and then once it finishes, hold LT + RT + LB + RB and an advanced screen will appear. During the advanced screen, the Xbox will attempt to renew its UPnP leases. I might try that as well.
Well, it happened - they couldn't play in the same game together. Here's what I saw and did this time:

XboxOne#1- showed 'Open NAT'
XboxOne#2-showed 'Strict NAT'

1. Attempted the hold LT + RT + LB + RB thing. Did nothing on either xbox.
2. Attempted full-rebooting each Xbox one at a time. And attempting to join in-game again each time. No change - things still weren't working for them.
3. Left the Xboxes online, rebooted the AC87U.
  • Xbox#1 then showed 'moderate NAT.' Doing the hold LT + RT + LB + RB did nothing. I I took it 'offline' via the network settings menu, then back 'online' afterwards. It then showed 'Open NAT'.
  • Xbox#2 then showed 'Open NAT'
  • They were immediately able to play again.
So, interestingly enough, a reboot of the AC87U without touching the xboxes (after the initial reboot but while the issue was still present) 'fixed' the problem though I had to force network off/on on one of them to get uPNP to work I suspect. Still haven't changed any router settings away from Merlins defaults.

Next time it happens, I'll be focusing on AC87U logs before/after the reboot.
 

e38BimmerFN

Very Senior Member
Interesting that you got OPEN NAT on both XB1s while leaving them online and just rebooting the router then taking the network adapter off and back online seemed to get open NAT.

From my observations, I believe this is a uPnP issue, specific game issue and how routers maybe designed to handle with two or more game consoles being online at the same time and having to acquire the desired game ports, actual and virtual, to get OPEN NAT on both.

SO far I have been only able to get two XB1s on both dashboard and in game OPEN NAT using a couple of specific D-link routers while online at the same time.

I'll keep your process handy when I'm seeing this NAT issue with two or more consoles online at the same time.

I'll be working with a new NetGear router when I get back from holiday.

Well, it happened - they couldn't play in the same game together. Here's what I saw and did this time:

XboxOne#1- showed 'Open NAT'
XboxOne#2-showed 'Strict NAT'

1. Attempted the hold LT + RT + LB + RB thing. Did nothing on either xbox.
2. Attempted full-rebooting each Xbox one at a time. And attempting to join in-game again each time. No change - things still weren't working for them.
3. Left the Xboxes online, rebooted the AC87U.
  • Xbox#1 then showed 'moderate NAT.' Doing the hold LT + RT + LB + RB did nothing. I I took it 'offline' via the network settings menu, then back 'online' afterwards. It then showed 'Open NAT'.
  • Xbox#2 then showed 'Open NAT'
  • They were immediately able to play again.
So, interestingly enough, a reboot of the AC87U without touching the xboxes (after the initial reboot but while the issue was still present) 'fixed' the problem though I had to force network off/on on one of them to get uPNP to work I suspect. Still haven't changed any router settings away from Merlins defaults.

Next time it happens, I'll be focusing on AC87U logs before/after the reboot.
 

Helghast59

Occasional Visitor
First i must say sorry for my bad english, but i try to explain what i think. Today i try to fix minidlna server on router. It's disconnects from all my devices after reboot or some time, and i find thing that maybe help to open nat on consoles. My ps3 has Nat 2, but upnp was "not available". upnp was enabled on router side and in ps3 settings, but anyway it's not work. Xbox One says "Nat is open", and all games connects fine, but dlna does't work like it must. Try to install another from optware-ng but same thing. After about 25 hrs of search i find if i enable multicast (igmp proxy and igmp snooping, under lan-iptv) upnp on ps3 changed to available and minidlna works flawless on all devices. Maybe this is help to someone. And my router is ac87u, 380.64 firmware.
 

Attachments

e38BimmerFN

Very Senior Member
You might want to post this under the AC87U forum thread or in the main Asus forum thread for more viability. This thread is regarding NAT and multiple Game Console experiences for users with 1 router and two or more game consoles online at the same time and NAT conditions seen on them. Has nothing to do with DLNA features. Thank you.


First i must say sorry for my bad english, but i try to explain what i think. Today i try to fix minidlna server on router. It's disconnects from all my devices after reboot or some time, and i find thing that maybe help to open nat on consoles. My ps3 has Nat 2, but upnp was "not available". upnp was enabled on router side and in ps3 settings, but anyway it's not work. Xbox One says "Nat is open", and all games connects fine, but dlna does't work like it must. Try to install another from optware-ng but same thing. After about 25 hrs of search i find if i enable multicast (igmp proxy and igmp snooping, under lan-iptv) upnp on ps3 changed to available and minidlna works flawless on all devices. Maybe this is help to someone. And my router is ac87u, 380.64 firmware.
 

unsynaps

Senior Member
I know this is kind of off topic but I have to ask.

Why are Microsoft's consoles so... anal about NAT? I have been hearing nothing but problems getting them online when behind a router.
 

e38BimmerFN

Very Senior Member
I presume it's a gaming thing and actual networking thing, i know from a user perspective, that OPEN NAT is preferred and in most cases with single gaming consoles, it's achieved both on console and in game. NAT effects many things specially gaming performance, gaming connections and Lag. Where it gets more interesting is with two or more gaming consoles online at the same time. Router, NAT and networking configuration all come in to play in regards to NAT and port accessibility. I've only been able to see OPEN NAT on 3 XB1s using one brand of router. Been difficult to get OPEN NAT on others.
 

Helghast59

Occasional Visitor
You might want to post this under the AC87U forum thread or in the main Asus forum thread for more viability. This thread is regarding NAT and multiple Game Console experiences for users with 1 router and two or more game consoles online at the same time and NAT conditions seen on them. Has nothing to do with DLNA features. Thank you.
I just think it may be helpful, nothing more. Cos i don't have problems with my consoles even they online it the same time.
 

unsynaps

Senior Member
I presume it's a gaming thing and actual networking thing, i know from a user perspective, that OPEN NAT is preferred and in most cases with single gaming consoles, it's achieved both on console and in game. NAT effects many things specially gaming performance, gaming connections and Lag. Where it gets more interesting is with two or more gaming consoles online at the same time. Router, NAT and networking configuration all come in to play in regards to NAT and port accessibility. I've only been able to see OPEN NAT on 3 XB1s using one brand of router. Been difficult to get OPEN NAT on others.
Well the reason I bring it up is I hear a fraction of the issues when it comes to online gaming on Sony's consoles.

Guess I should look up what the hell "Open NAT" means. PS3/4 just say nat level. 2 being the one you want.

EDIT: Did some digging and found that "Open" is basically no NAT? So the only way to get it is to directly plug into your modem/ONT?
 

e38BimmerFN

Very Senior Member
Well there doesn't seem to be a standard for NAT statuses between MS and Sony and they prescribe there own expected behaviors.
I believe that status 1 for Sony is direct connect PS to the ISP modem with NAT (built in or no built in router) while Status 2 means still open however behind a router or firewall that has NAT and the ISP modem doesn't have any NAT( built in router).

For MS, OPEN means directly connected to an ISP modem or behind a router that has the NAT and the ISP modem doesn't have any NAT( built in router). This is what I use and see OPEN NAT with a single console or with two or more using a particular brand of router that's configured with it's QoS networking feature.

MS uses Moderate and Strict status as well, we see these pop up when either the ISP modem has NAT along with a connected external router, or the single connected router isn't configured properly or there is a problem with FW and uPnP handling of the gaming ports.

I see moderate most of the time when using an Asus, Linksys or Netgear routers with two or more consoles connected. I haven't been able to fully invest more testing time lately and my multiple game console environment is coming to a close. Also game console handling of networking configurations and port connections also play a role in how they are getting connected to there perspective ports and Virtual ports when two more more consoles are online.


Well the reason I bring it up is I hear a fraction of the issues when it comes to online gaming on Sony's consoles.

Guess I should look up what the hell "Open NAT" means. PS3/4 just say nat level. 2 being the one you want.

EDIT: Did some digging and found that "Open" is basically no NAT? So the only way to get it is to directly plug into your modem/ONT?
 

cruz878

New Around Here
Hi Gents,

Recently got a second Xbone in my household and have been playing with the NAT settings the last week... Just found this thread today and wanted to add my testing/findings.

Note: my home network may be more complicated than others as I have a second router bridged via a poweline adapter in my theater room.

Router1 (192.168.1.1 / TM-AC1900 / Tomato Shibby Firmware 1.28.0000 -138 K26ARM USB AIO-64K / primary)
Router2 (192.168.1.2 / RT-N12 / Tomato Shibby Firmware 1.28.0000 MIPSR2-135 K26 Mini / secondary powerline briged AP)

Xbox1 (192.168.1.190 / Static DHCP / XboxOne-Theater / Instant-On)
Xbox2 (192.168.1.115 / Static DHCP / XboxOne-Bdrm / Energy Saver)

Router1 UPnP/NAT-PMP config:
Enable UPnP: on
Enable NATPMP: on
Inactive Rules Cleaning: on
Cleaning Interval: 3600
Cleaning Threshold: 1
Enabled on LAN: on
Miniupnpd Custom configuration:
allow 1024-65535 192.168.1.190 1-65535
allow 1024-65535 192.168.1.115 1-65535
deny 0-65535 0.0.0.0/0 0-65535


With the above I can get Open-Nat on both Xbox after hard rebooting each. Xbox2 seems to consistently take default port 3074. Xbox1 seems to consistently take port 57141. The problem seems to arise when Xbox1 has been offline for 1 hour as Router1 uPnP rule for 192.168.1.190 expires on port 57141 and is cleared. Instant-On bootup of Xbox1 produces a moderate NAT and no new uPnP rule defined in Router1. A hard reboot of Xbox1 does then produce a UPnP 57141 rule to 192.168.1.190 and an Open-NAT on Xbox1.

My current test has me increasing the "Cleaning Threshold" to "3". My theory is if the UPnP rules are never cleared once established then will Xbox1 successfully Open-Nat connect with an Instant-On wakeup??? I then need to check what happens with a hard reboot of Xbox1 (with Cleaning Threshold = 3 if either Xbox established a new UPnP port the old one will be cleared after 1 hour).

I will update this thread as testing continues. It seems as though even if I think all is working I will need to monitor it over the course of a week or so.
 

e38BimmerFN

Very Senior Member
Keep us posted. uPnP seems to be the common factor here. WE do know that a virtual port will be acquired by the 2nd console when that is turned on after the 1st one is turned on or which ever one gets the port first.

What games to you play? Any games that report and show in game NAT status as well? Like Bo3? I'm no longer taking in game NAT status as a priority as I believe xbox dash board NAT is more important.

Please try both xb1s with Instant On disabled. Then try with them both enabled or mixed.
 

cruz878

New Around Here
If Microsoft would just allow us the option to specify a default port for each Xbox it seems like all this hassle could be avoided.

We have a range of Games but no CoD, not sure which if any I own have in game NAT reporting (bf1 / bf4 / battlefront / destiny / the division / forza(s) / minecraft / ark / etc...) . I am only monitoring Xbox reported NAT at this time.

With both xb1's set to Energy-Saver everything seems to work Open-NAT wise even when cleaning all inactive UPnP items (assuming a console reboot takes place post UPnP clear) . My dilemma is Xbox1 is in a theater room detached from my main house and is often played via Windows10 streaming, necessitating Instant-On. Xbox2 can be set either way as it is accessible to power on from the main house even if someone wants to Stream it.

Still testing things out but initially seems to be holding Open-NAT in current configuration. I need to see what happens if both Xbox are hard powered off and then Xbox1 is turned on first (does it see the existing UPnP rule for it's IP address and remain on port 57141? Or will it steal 3074, and if so how does Miniupnpd handle this).
 

cruz878

New Around Here
My latest testing disproved my previous theory/hope, but so far both Xbox are still open NAT.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UT.0 (UPnP table at start):
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.1 (Test 1):
Xbox2 Powered Off (Energy-Saver)
Xbox1 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT Open

UT.1:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.2:
Xbox2 Powered Off (Energy-Saver)
Xbox1 Hard reset = NAT Open

UT.2:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
53865 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

^ what bugs me here is "Cleaning Threshold = 3" did not trigger an inactive UPnP clear after several hours.
^ in the above test Xbox1 picked a new port # after hard reset. The good news is it did not steal 3074.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.3:
Xbox2 Powered On (Energy-Saver) = NAT open
Xbox1 Powered Off (Instant-On)

UT.3:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
49444 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
53865 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

^ did not wait for cleaning threshold test
^ so Xbox2 now set a new port as well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.4:
Xbox2 Powered On (Energy-Saver) = NAT open
Xbox1 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT open

UT.4:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
49444 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
53865 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, it now seems as though a hard reset or Energy-Saver reboot causes a new port to be selected (at least as long as the previous UPnP port has not been cleared from Router1). I am waiting a few hours to see what happens with the UPnP cleaning (4 rules defined as of now: UT.4) and how that impacts both Xbox.

New theory = the answer may be to just disable inactive rule cleaning altogether. This looks like it would require hard Xbox reboots if/when Router1 is rebooted to restore Open NAT status.

More test cases to follow.
 

cruz878

New Around Here
After an hour or so my UPnP table was cleared on Router1. It appears as though "Cleaning Threshold" must be greater than the number set for it to trigger.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.5:
Xbox2 Powered Off (Energy-Saver)
Xbox1 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT Open

UT.5:
3074 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.6:
Xbox1 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT Open
Xbox2 Powered On (Energy-Saver) = NAT Open

UT.6:
3074 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo
54029 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For test #7 Xbox2 was changed to Instant-On mode and UPnP table on Router1 was manually cleared.

T.7:
Xbox2 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT Open
Xbox1 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT Open

UT.7:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
T.8:
Xbox2 Hard reset (Instant-On) = NAT Open
Xbox1 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT Open

UT.8:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For test #9 both Xbox were hard reset, no UPnP clearing.

T.9:
Xbox1 Hard reset (Instant-On) = NAT Moderate
Xbox2 Hard reset (Instant-On) = NAT Open

UT.9:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For test #10 I manually cleared only the UPnP entry for "57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo" on Router1.

T10:
Xbox2 Powered Off (Instant-On)
Xbox1 Powered On (Instant-On) = NAT Open

UT.10:
3074 192.168.1.115 UDP Teredo
57141 192.168.1.190 UDP Teredo

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In my earlier research I read something that implied the older XboxOnes may have UPnP issues. In my case Xbox1 is a "Day One Edition" while Xbox2 is a newer "S" model. Based on the testing I've run so far it seems like there could be something to that. For others with multi Xbox NAT issues what console iterations are you using?

At this point I am going to attempt to run with both Instant-On for the next few days. It seems like as long as neither is hard reset the NAT should remain open.

If there are any other test cases someone would like to see me run post them up and I'll give it a go and report back.
 

e38BimmerFN

Very Senior Member
Nice testing and results. Ya I believe that the XB1s (1st generation may have uPnP issues.) Been thinking about this here and there. Kind of reminds me of the 1st generation xbox 360 Slims that came with wireless built in, users found that the adapter was capped at 11Mb rates on newer generation routers. I was told that this was a problem in the wireless drivers in the Slims. MS never fixed it for the Slim. Seems that 1st generation consoles always have one issue or another. I only have the 1st generation XB1 and now that I'm down to single console in the house hold, hard to test this so I hope you won't mind being a test monkey for us. o_O. I'm wondering if two XB1 S editions would exhibit the same issue in testing. Where did you read this information about 1st generation XB1s and upnp issues?

Thanks for your time and efforts.
 

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