What is the best AP for the buck? (AC & N only)

[b1ggjoe]

Hello Everyone,

I was all set to purchase the following AP:

http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/apa20.html

Along with it's Range Extender cousin:

http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/rea20.html

...but then I found this website!!!

Now, I'm going to get rid of the Extender altogether and run Cat6 to a target location and go from there.

That said, for now I just need an awesome, rock-solid, AP:

I was considering this one:

http://www.ampedwireless.com/products/apa20.html

or perhaps this one by D-Link:

http://www.dlink.com/us/en/business...ac1750-simultaneous-dualband-poe-access-point

I can't find any information on either one of these products on 'smallnetbuilder.com'.

Looking for solid Wireless N with some future AC use sprinkled into it. Need the best coverage possible.

Any suggestions or advice?

Thank you!!

BJ

 

[CaptainSTX]

If you are looking for what appears to be a killer AP and have $280 to spend look at the new EnGenius AP mentioned on this site's home page. Dual band and built in hand off. Features that most people want but aren't available in most SOHO equipment.

I have used EnGenius products before and they have worked well and deliver the power.

 

[b1ggjoe]

CaptainSTX,

Thank you so much for this suggestion!!! I wonder how well it will work if I place it in my attic?

Also, I wonder if the internal antenna's are better than the external ones?

BJ

 

[b1ggjoe]

CaptainSTX,

What are your thoughts on the D-Link and the Amped Wireless APs that I listed above?

BJ

 

[connorm]

personally i don't like the amped stuff but maybe it would be really good i dunno. the d link option you picked out does look really nice but pretty pricy. although it would expect high throughput out of that ac d links ac1750 dir 868l has very good throughput at medium to high signal quality. i and that has internal antennas. it appears this dap-2695 has 3 antennas for each radio so i would expect it to have very good throughput and range. if your not in a rush consider waiting for the wrt1900ac from linksys. its gonna be about $300 and should have a really nice marvell chipset.

 

[b1ggjoe]

personally i don't like the amped stuff but maybe it would be really good i dunno. the d link option you picked out does look really nice but pretty pricy. although it would expect high throughput out of that ac d links ac1750 dir 868l has very good throughput at medium to high signal quality. i and that has internal antennas. it appears this dap-2695 has 3 antennas for each radio so i would expect it to have very good throughput and range. if your not in a rush consider waiting for the wrt1900ac from linksys. its gonna be about $300 and should have a really nice marvell chipset.

Connorm,

Thank you very much for replying! Ok, I will add wrt1900ac to the list of possibilities.

It looks like other than the Amped Wireless APA 20, I'll have to wait for either EnGenius, D-Link & Linksys wrt1900ac

BJ

 

[stevech]

A high power AP/router can help transmissions TO a WiFi client, but can't do much to help the FROM client. Some high power products have an amp in the receive side, but laws of physics say it won't help much, due to the "noise figure" problem.

Antenna gain is the number one way to help. Number two is just ordinary APs where needed.

I just need WiFi for handheld tablets, phones. Since these don't need much speed/capacity (bandwidth), I just use a $35 ASUS RT-N12D1, in its AP mode.

 

[b1ggjoe]

A high power AP/router can help transmissions TO a WiFi client, but can't do much to help the FROM client. Some high power products have an amp in the receive side, but laws of physics say it won't help much, due to the "noise figure" problem.

Antenna gain is the number one way to help. Number two is just ordinary APs where needed.

I just need WiFi for handheld tablets, phones. Since these don't need much speed/capacity (bandwidth), I just use a $35 ASUS RT-N12D1, in its AP mode.

Thank you Steve!! I guess I should offer more information as to what I'm looking for:

In addition to Smart Phones & Tablets, I will have roughly 5-10 Laptops as well as streaming HD video...or I should say...I would like to stream video.

I'm looking to spend no more than $300 if possible.

Ok, to EVERYONE...here's a stupid question:

Since Antenna Gain is such a huge factor, doesn't it seem that either the EnGenius or D-Link option would do much better than the Amped Wireless APA 20?

I like all of the 'hype' behind Amped, but I haven't read enough pros/cons reviews.

I like the sturdy build design of both D-Link and EnGenius. The new Linksys looks very sleek...but I still get that weird 'blue plastic vibe'. Dunno what to think yet.

I wish these companies would provide the testing folks on this site with these APs...so that 'SmallNetBuilder' can put them to the test!!

BJ

 

[thiggins]

A high power AP/router can help transmissions TO a WiFi client, but can't do much to help the FROM client. Some high power products have an amp in the receive side, but laws of physics say it won't help much, due to the "noise figure" problem.

The experiments I ran in An Experiment In Wireless Power And Range show that higher transmit power can affect range. The improvment you see (or not) depends on the transmit power you start with. After some point, more transmit power doesn't help because of the client effect you cite.

 

[stevech]

The experiments I ran in An Experiment In Wireless Power And Range show that higher transmit power can affect range. The improvment you see (or not) depends on the transmit power you start with. After some point, more transmit power doesn't help because of the client effect you cite.

In 802.11b/g and maybe most common 11n, the IEEE spec says that the client and access device must use the same modulation mode in both directions, that being the least common denominator. Is this still true with fancier options of 11n, and if so, is that asymmetric data rate actually implemented? A really old complaint about the IEEE standard is/was that if the client device was low powered, it would reduce its modulation rate (speed) until the frame error rate was reasonable. With the IEEE standards this rate reduction required the access device to match speed (reduce too). Thus, the bi-directional rates had to be symmetric (equal), for any given frame in either direction.

Of course, 802.11 is rate-adaptable, meaning the modulation order and coding rates vary according to the channel conditions (SNR), frame by frame. Bot additionally there is the issue in the preceding paragraph.

 

[thiggins]

I didn't say that rates were asymmetric. Just that sometimes using a router with higher transmit power can improve the throughput vs. range curve.

 

[stevech]

I didn't say that rates were asymmetric. Just that sometimes using a router with higher transmit power can improve the throughput vs. range curve.

Yes. My question was meant to be: do you know if latter versions of 11n removed the requirement for symmetric data rates?

 

[b1ggjoe]

I didn't say that rates were asymmetric. Just that sometimes using a router with higher transmit power can improve the throughput vs. range curve.

Tim,

I would love to get your input on some of the choices of AP's that I'm considering. Do you have any suggestions?

So far, I'm still leaning towards this one:

http://www.dlink.com/us/en/business...ac1750-simultaneous-dualband-poe-access-point

There's a lot of hype surrounding the new Linksys wrt1900ac router.

However, I'm looking for a high-end and rock-solid Access point, not so much a router or turning a router into just an AP.

I'm going with your strategy in the sense that after I purchase my new AP, I'm going to disable the radio on my SonicWALL TZ 210 and just use all that processing power for a Router/Firewall.

I would love to get your thoughts on this.

Thank you!

BJ

 

[thiggins]

Yes. My question was meant to be: do you know if latter versions of 11n removed the requirement for symmetric data rates?

I don't know. I'll check with my sources.
I can offer the observation that some of the bridges I have been testing show different up and downlink rates.

 

[thiggins]

BJ: Why not a router-turned-AP? You'll have more to choose from that are better performers. Sounds like you are willing to consider this option since you are interested in the WRT1900AC...

I haven't tested any of the APs you mention. But the FCC docs show the DAP-2965 is Qualcomm-based. Qualcomm-based AC routers have not been performing as well as Broadcom-based products.

 

[Kris404]

Asus RT-AC56U. It was $99 at NewEgg about a week ago.

 

[b1ggjoe]

BJ: Why not a router-turned-AP? You'll have more to choose from that are better performers. Sounds like you are willing to consider this option since you are interested in the WRT1900AC...

I haven't tested any of the APs you mention. But the FCC docs show the DAP-2965 is Qualcomm-based. Qualcomm-based AC routers have not been performing as well as Broadcom-based products.

Tim,

Thank you very much for getting back to me. To answer your question, yes I would most definitely consider that option. I just really wasn't sure if that was the best way to go.

My initial thought was that perhaps a dedicated AP-only device was going to outperform and out-shine any Router-turned AP, simply because that way all of it's power and 'mojo' would be dedicated to one specific function.

LOL, that of course was just based on my 'hmmm...that is probably the case'...not based on anything factual what-so-ever.

That said, with all of your extensive testing and cutting through all of the slick marketing hype and uber packaging design...I MUCH rather go with your recommendation.

So yes, if you recommend that I go that route...then I will definitely go that route.

With this in mind, what would you recommend for the price point that I'm willing to spend (+/- $300)?

My scenario will hopefully look like this when everything is all done:

- High-speed Time Warner Cable modem (brand-new line run from the telephone pole into my bedroom walk-in closet). I have an awesome wife!! - DONE!

- SonicWALL TZ210 Router/Firewall w/ Gigabit connection (it only hase 1 GB Port) into Gigabit switch.- DONE!

- Gigabit Switch has Cat6 into TWC Modem. Gigabit Switch also has Cat6 Sheilded Cable going directly through my closet ceiling, into the attic and all the way to directly center of the house (The house is rectangular shaped)- DONE!

- Kick-butt AP or Router-turned AP placed in attic directly centered above my home, with Gigabit connection into Cat6 cable- PENDING

- Kick-butt Wireless Bridge w/ Gigabit ports placed in Living Room in order to connect and wireless enable my HD TV, Blu-Ray Player, DirectTV Genie and other devices-PENDING...I STILL ALSO NEED TO CHOOSE THIS BRIDGE.

- New Cat6 Sheilded Cable going from Gigabit switch in Bedroom closet ran a few hundred feet into the Garage and terminating into a RJ-45 network drop- PENDING

- Kick-butt Wireless Bridge w/ Gigabit ports placed in the Garage on workstation Desk, plugged into RJ-45 Network Drop. This will provide Cat6 Gigabit connectivity to devices in Garage office area with killer WiFi, separate SSID but repeating same IP Scheme.-PENDING...I STILL ALSO NEED TO CHOOSE THIS BRIDGE.

My SonicWALL Firewall has been setup with a 192.168.5.3 IP Scheme...which I need repeated throughout the Attic AP or Router turned-AP and the Wireless Bridge in the Livingroom & Garage.

The Attic AP or Router-Turned AP will preferably be able to have multiple SSID/VLAN capabilities...so that I can have a 'Guest Network' for my visitors.

The challenge is that hopefully 1 VLAN or one main WLAN segment on the AP or Router-Turned AP will pass through the DHCP broadcast from the SonicWALL, while allowing me to have 1 or more separate SSID/VLANs for guests.

So I need:

- A Kick-butt AP or like you suggested a Router-turned AP

- 2 awesome Wireless Bridge devices.

What do you think??

BJ

 

[thiggins]

Yes. My question was meant to be: do you know if latter versions of 11n removed the requirement for symmetric data rates?

According to my source:

802.11 allows for Tx rates to be different from Rx rates. They can be completely independent.

 

[b1ggjoe]

According to my source:

Tim,

What are your thoughts, given everything that was described?

Thanks!

BJ

 

[thiggins]

Tim,
What are your thoughts, given everything that was described?

Sorry Joe. I don't have the bandwidth to give individual product selection advice. That's what the charts, rankers and other tools are for.

I use very few products long term and my wireless needs are very simple.