Advice for upgrade

[mnm]

Hi SMB members,

Introduction:
I am a new member, so please forgive me for being a total newbie.
I am a young thermal engineer, not an IT expert. I have read a lot of reviews and text online which made me even more confused. However, the methodology for testing and info on SmallNetBuilder seems clear and well tought off, so here I am with the questions.

A while back I bought a wifi router with more than 10 times larger rated data transfer rates than my rated upload and download rates from the ISP. This seamed future proof at the time and worked OK until recently. I also have another new N router unpacked at home.

Problem:

The number of network devices I use had grown (two computers, TV, AVR, hard drive media hub, media player, phones, tablet....), which causes slow response and slow transfer speeds, especially for media devices.

Thinking of adding WD my cloud or my cloud mirror to the setup.

What has been done:

I ditched a router my ISP provided, got a plane old modem and came back to my old one (which seems to be slightly more stable although it was cheap), based on some tutorials I read. By doing this, I got AIRPLAY working

QUESTIONS:
1. Do I need a gigabit switch*?
2. DO I need an AC** router or just N?
3. AC seems more future proof, but if I buy now, will it support some future AC certified devices?

*Most of my devices support gigabit ethernet, the manual for the AVR does not provide this info

** Most of my wifi equipment is rated just N, not sure about 5ghz support.

Considered options:

1. Buy a gigabit swithc - cheapest option
2. Buy a router with Gigabit ethernet- medium cost (Assus RTN18U, D Link 850L)
3. Buy a more capable router - ASUS RT N56U, ASUS RT N66U, LINKSYS EA 6300 or LINKSYS EA 6400 (cca 50% more than option 2)

First thoughts:
2 seems ok, but 3 seems more futureproof. Linksys seem to offer AC and best data transfers on paper compared to the ASUS, but I read that users are not so satisfied ( i.e. EA routers need to be reset frequently, dont operate stability of operation, send usage data to Linksys or something??!! and send spam e-mails?)

D link dir 850l seems to offer similar performance to Linksys EA6300, but is 50% cheaper?

Would someone with more knowledge and experience than me please comment? Also, if someone is using the mentioned equipment a first hand experience is welcome.
Could someone explain what are the benefits of a gigabit switch compared to the router. Should I buy both?

I dont like paying more than I have to for such devices, but again, I dont like the idea of buying new routers each year.

Thanks for the advice!

 

[System Error Message]

the question depends on the performance you need. Can your current router support your internet speeds? How many devices are wired? What sort of bandwidth do you want to see? 1 SATA hard drive can fill up a gigabit link. It depends on how you want to wire everything and how fast do you want things. Are you satisfied with 10Mb/s or do you need 100Mb/s? Do all your devices support that speed?

The 2nd thing to worry about is the combined wattage of your networking gear. This translates to heat and electricity costs.

If your internet is only via 1 link and you need gigabit speeds while having only up to 4 wired devices than a wireless router with gigabit ports would suffice. If you need the speed over wireless than get wireless AC. If you have more than 4 gigabit devices than a gigabit switch would help.

When it comes to consumer routers dont hope for stability. For some routers 3rd party firmware like merlin firmware helps greatly and if you dont need hardware acceleration you can go for other firmwares like openwrt or tomato which greatly help with stability.

The other solution if you have the skill is to go with non consumer that fit your needs . they vary greatly but require some research before buying like looking at their specs and performance numbers. Example brands would be cisco, mikrotik, ubiquiti, zyxel. The non consumer choices have better choices like 8 port routers with optional wireless as an example and some even have SFP. Technically if you had fibre optic internet you could just get a router with SFP and wireless/miniPCIe to get an all in 1 device but requires even more research such as finding the SFP module compatible with your internet and compatible cards for the miniPCIe for wireless.

 

[mnm]

First, thanks for your answer(s).

I am a plain home user, and would not like to spend more money nor time setting the system up then necessary. Also, I would like to set it up and be able to use this for a 2-3 years without much intervention if possible.

the question depends on the performance you need. Can your current router support your internet speeds? How many devices are wired? What sort of bandwidth do you want to see? 1 SATA hard drive can fill up a gigabit link. It depends on how you want to wire everything and how fast do you want things. Are you satisfied with 10Mb/s or do you need 100Mb/s? Do all your devices support that speed?

My current router is rated higher than my current internet speed. The router fails for data transfer inside the home network. I want to add a WD my cloud to the network, which is essentially when I realized I need a better router to take advantage of the network drive. Internet speed is 25 or 30 MB/s, I think.

All of the wired equipment supports gigabit LAN, I am just not sure how check this for the AVR. There is nothing about gigabit in the specs sheet.

The 2nd thing to worry about is the combined wattage of your networking gear. This translates to heat and electricity costs.

If your internet is only via 1 link and you need gigabit speeds while having only up to 4 wired devices than a wireless router with gigabit ports would suffice. If you need the speed over wireless than get wireless AC. If you have more than 4 gigabit devices than a gigabit switch would help.[/QUOTE]

Just realized I need just a new router, so heat/electricity shouldnt be a problem
At the moment I have 3 wired devices, which leaves one free for WD cloud.

I am confused, however, about the performance of a consumer gigabit router - if one of the devices does not support gigabit, will the entire network work with lower speed, i.e would i benefit from gigabit LAN if my AVR does not support gigabit?

Higher speeds WAN-LAN would be apriciated, although I dont expect miracles ( 20-30 MB/S would be great if possible without buying additional usb wifi adapters) - I am also not clear with 5ghz band. 2.4 is crouded in my appartment, but I am not sure if my devices support 5ghz.
For example, I am using a Fujistu Celsius H910, which has a wifi adapter rated b,g,n. I have searched online for 5ghz support, but failed to find anything. I am using a WD USB3.0 hard drive for file back-up , but I would like to setup backup to a network drive, but I am not sure if I need AC for this to work ok. Most of the other devices are just rated N - nothing about 5ghz???

What WAN - LAN speeds could I expect for 600N (asus RT 18N), 900N (ASUS RT 66) 1200 AC (D link 850l) or Linksys EA6400 (1600 AC) with N rated wifi adapters?

When it comes to consumer routers dont hope for stability. For some routers 3rd party firmware like merlin firmware helps greatly and if you dont need hardware acceleration you can go for other firmwares like openwrt or tomato which greatly help with stability.

The other solution if you have the skill is to go with non consumer that fit your needs . they vary greatly but require some research before buying like looking at their specs and performance numbers. Example brands would be cisco, mikrotik, ubiquiti, zyxel. The non consumer choices have better choices like 8 port routers with optional wireless as an example and some even have SFP. Technically if you had fibre optic internet you could just get a router with SFP and wireless/miniPCIe to get an all in 1 device but requires even more research such as finding the SFP module compatible with your internet and compatible cards for the miniPCIe for wireless.

Again, I am not expecting miracles, just something I would be able to easily setup which would I wouldn have to reset or mess with on a regular basis. Changing firmware etc is not an option, I think I would probably void warranty by doing this....


I am not expecting miracles with consumer equipment. I am just trying to find a good performance&reliability/cost ratio and to pinpoint which type of equipment would be sufficient for the next few years and to determine what would I get for my money.

As for reliability, for example, the router I use today is a cheap ASUS, which needed a reset once or twice for the last 12 months. I consider this to be OK. ( I read that some users need to reset Linsys EA routers daily, which is not OK. Could this be system/user specific?)

If someone has experience with the mentioned routers, a suggestion would be great!

 

[System Error Message]

using a non gigabit device in a gigabit network wont slow things down. I am not an expert in consumer brands so i cannot recommend any however i do use ASUS myself with merlin firmware.

2.4Ghz and 5 Ghz are totally different bands and 5 Ghz has more available channels. In my opinion no consumer router is reliable with stock firmware.

As for performance/price they're all about the same but tplink is twice as good but doesnt have good firmware however in contrary my mikrotik CCR1036 is many times cheaper in price/performance but it is not cheap nor is it a consumer router. TP-link is only stable for basic features. Nowadays stock firmwares for consumer routers are never stable.

I assume you mean your internet speed in Mb/s instead of MB/s because if it was MB/s you would need a really good router.

There is a table list for the WAN-LAN throughput of a lot of consumer routers on this website. Look from the main page. Remember that MB/s is Mb/s x8, all data speeds are rated in Mb/s not MB/s.

You still havent answered my question on what speeds do you want for wifi. Im not talking about internet speeds, im talking about LAN communication. If you're expecting 30MB/s than wireless N may be sufficient but if you want fast LAN communication you can get wireless AC. If you are expecting 30Mb/s than wireless G would be sufficient. 5 Ghz wireless N will help if it is a crowded network but only if your device supported 5 Ghz wireless N. Wireless AC is 5 Ghz.

If you dont mind learning than mikrotik offers some good things at good prices depending on what speeds you need. It is better to ask in Mb/s. If you need 30Mb/s of internet than almost any device can support that speed whereas if you want 200Mb/s of internet than at least an RB450G equivalent device in performance or better is what you need. They have all in one devices cheaper than high end consumer routers for the speeds and features they offer but they arent as direct in setup. They may not have enough gigabit ports or they may include things like SFP, miniPCIe which would require more learning on what is compatible and whether or not you can replace your modem with it.

 

[mnm]

Once again thank you.


Sorry for the mistake MB/s vs Mb/s. My internet speed is in mb/s devided by 8 somewhere between 2.5-3 MB/s, I think.

I find the internet speed OK. What I want to upgrade is the speed of my home network, since some of the devices need faster data rates for media streaming.

I diched most of the CDs etc. and saved a lot of space. The idea is to completely stream audio and video and avoid CDS DVDs Blurays etc.
So my network should be able to provide good enough data rates for this.

I think a blu ray bitrate is arround 30MB/s on average, but I could be wrong. At the moment, I can get up to 7-8 MB/s when I copy files from a laptop to the network hard drive. If I play high bitrate music at the same tame from the same drive over the same network, I get either lower transfer speed or significant lag for music streaming (this depens which process was started first, I think).

I searched for microtic in some stores nearby, but most of them are just router boards (DIY, I guess??). How much time should I invest in learning to setup a router, instal custom firmware such as DDWRT or the other one you mentioned

If N is all I need, than Asus RT N18 should be best, since it is N only and 2.4Ghz only.

According to the charts, D Link 1200 AC should be sufficient.This also seems more futureproof since AC devices are probably going to be everywhere soon. The cost is about the same as the mentioned asus.

The review for linksys ea 6300 is good, but it is not listed in the 1200 ac charts? The cost ratio Linksys : D link= 1.5 : 1. I got an impresion that it would be somewhat faster but significantly better for simultanous data transfer through the network compared to the D link, according to the reviews.
So, would simultaneous streaming of a video, some music and for example youtube hd and some plain surfing, be possible with either of these?



The phones, tablets, TV are listed as N, 2.4 and 5ghz compatible. My lg phone is listed as AC certified on some wifi alliance site?


How can I check 5ghz compatibility of my computer?
The laptop uses Atheros AR9287 (BGN)



I also checked, the only usb AC adapter I could buy locally is some Asus 66 ac usb adapter, and it costs aprox. the same as the D link router.

 

[huotg01]

@mnm
Keep it simple. I suggest you buy a RT-ac68u (or a RT-ac56u if the space to cover is very,very large).

You will have a dual core cpu, 1 usb2 port, 1 usb3 port, g, N and AC standard, 2 bands, a very strong work horse if you add RMerlin firmware to it.

I own a ac68u with a wd 4 TB usb3 disk. I used the disk for backup purposes,

• receiving data from many PCs on the lan, and
• receiving data from a remote site (a site built on a ac56u+4TBwdUsb3 disk
• sending the local backup to the remote site

 

[System Error Message]

I agree with huotg01 that asus with merlin firmware does well as long as you have 4 wired devices. If you have more you may want to consider a green gigabit switch or a router with more ports.

Both the AC68U and AC56U have same hardware but AC56U antennas are internal and may not have range.

Regardless of your choice dont use DD-wrt as it is not for beginners and is a lot more hackish. OpenWRT and tomato are better and worth learning too however ASUS routers can have merlin firmware which keeps the stock performance and look but adds features and fixes.

However you must know that consumer routers cannot do disk sharing at more than usb2 speeds due to their limited CPU. The only problem with these dual core ARM routers is that you need a fan otherwise in a year you will find that your device has degraded and becomes unstable. I mount a $3 dual usb fan on mine and it stops the degradation. It may not happen for some but my temps were near 90C stock when i first got the AC68U.

As for mikrotik they do have inexpansive DIY routerboards but their only weakness is that they dont have usb3. Some have SFP which will be useless if you use DSL.

If you use DSL i would recommend zyxel. I got a P-2812... zyxel with my internet 2 years ago free (i get to keep it because the tier 2 ISP company closed). It was used with VDSL and had integrated usb2 ports, a good complex MIPS CPU, 4 or 5 gigabit ports (depends how you set it),2 RJ11 ports, 2.4 and 5Ghz wireless N. The MIPS CPU was a multi threaded CPU (like intel hyperthreading) and may have been multicore but i couldnt find any actual details on that.

Regardless of your choice make sure to check the specs like CPU and RAM. When it comes to routing MIPS,PPC,ARM are all similar in performance clock per clock but sometimes MIPS takes the lead however MIPS does very poorly at other things such as encryption, VPN, common tasks like file sharing (if disk is connected to router).

 

[huotg01]

I agree with huotg01 that asus with merlin firmware does well as long as you have 4 wired devices. If you have more you may want to consider a green gigabit switch or a router with more ports.

Both the AC68U and AC56U have same hardware but AC56U antennas are internal and may not have range.

Regardless of your choice dont use DD-wrt as it is not for beginners and is a lot more hackish. OpenWRT and tomato are better and worth learning too however ASUS routers can have merlin firmware which keeps the stock performance and look but adds features and fixes.

However you must know that consumer routers cannot do disk sharing at more than usb2 speeds due to their limited CPU. The only problem with these dual core ARM routers is that you need a fan otherwise in a year you will find that your device has degraded and becomes unstable. I mount a $3 dual usb fan on mine and it stops the degradation. It may not happen for some but my temps were near 90C stock when i first got the AC68U.
[...]

Dear SEM
Please, when you agree with me, don't say it publicly because it makes me doubt myself. Thanks.

However you must know that consumer routers cannot do disk sharing at more than usb2 speeds due to their limited CPU. The only problem with these dual core ARM routers is that you need a fan otherwise in a year you will find that your device has degraded and becomes unstable.

It maybe better to hear that that be deaf, but not totally sure...

 

[System Error Message]

Dear SEM
Please, when you agree with me, don't say it publicly because it makes me doubt myself. Thanks.

Ok, ive just never seen someone doubt themselves when someone else agrees with them. We are providing free advice and it is up to the person if he/she wants to follow it.

Aside from what you recommended there is an AC68U with DSL. You didnt tell us what internet medium you used. Sometimes it is better to use an all in one ASUS or zyxel because they provide better configurability on the modem part as well such as sync bandwidth and so on and you benefit from device reliability if it is reliable.

For wireless there isnt a properly stable/reliable wireless router/AP yet. Some models/brands do well but they still do fail sometimes.

 

[mnm]

Thank you everybody for your advice. It is realy helpfull!

Aside from what you recommended there is an AC68U with DSL. You didnt tell us what internet medium you used. Sometimes it is better to use an all in one ASUS or zyxel because they provide better configurability on the modem part as well such as sync bandwidth and so on and you benefit from device reliability if it is reliable.

THe ISP is the same for cable tv, phone and internet. I had a cisco 3 in one modem, router... but it was extreamly unstable with realy poor signal etc. so I had it replaced with a CISCO modem. It uses a coaxial cable and the MAC has to be registered by the ISP, so I think I have to use it.

I searched the local stores online for ASUS RT AC56U, but it seems it is not available at the moment.

I could get ASUS RT ac68u for arround 220. How does Linksys ea6400 stack up to the ASUS RTac68U? From what I have read, it is 1600AC, has dual core processor, seems ok. I could get it for 160. Is the ASUS AC68u that much better?

I looked at the specs, and from my point of view, these two look similar, although I found some stability and range issues with the linksys on the forums and only good reviews about the latest ASUS routers....

I also see that many of you refer to the Merlin firmware. Do I lose waranty if I install it?

Are Linksys routers compatible with Merlin/DDWRT?

AS for Microtic DIY, I dont think DIY is realy my cup of tea when it comes to routers...

 

[huotg01]

Thank you everybody for your advice. It is realy helpfull!
...

I searched the local stores online for ASUS RT AC56U, but it seems it is not available at the moment.

I could get ASUS RT ac68u for arround 220. How does Linksys ea6400 stack up to the ASUS RTac68U? From what I have read, it is 1600AC, has dual core processor, seems ok. I could get it for 160. Is the ASUS AC68u that much better?

I looked at the specs, and from my point of view, these two look similar, although I found some stability and range issues with the linksys on the forums and only good reviews about the latest ASUS routers....

I also see that many of you refer to the Merlin firmware. Do I lose waranty if I install it?

Are Linksys routers compatible with Merlin/DDWRT?...

The 56u could be near 100$less. Search again...I don't know for the Linksys. No RMerlin firmware doesn't work on the Linksys.

 

[mnm]

The 56u could be near 100$less. Search again...I don't know for the Linksys. No RMerlin firmware doesn't work on the Linksys.

OK. I searched for stores in my country.

Asus RT ac56u - not available. I will write an e-mail to the official Asus distributer for my country.

Asus RT AC66U cost 220
ASUS RT N66U cost 160
ASUS RT AC68u cost 270

I got an impression that Linksys is not well regarded by members of this forum. I guess there is a good reason for this, although, the review for EA6300 was actually really positive, in my opinion.

So, just to compare where my money goes, I made a list of prices for Linksys as well:

Linksys ea6300 ee cost 150
Linsys ea 6400 ee cost 160
Linksys ea6700 ee cost 220
Linksys ea6700 CE cost 270

Does anybody know the difference between EE and CE routers?

Another question about the cooling - overheating of a router and installing an aditional USB fan, Is this something I should consider just for ASUS rt ac68u or for every consumer router?

 

[System Error Message]

only asus routers can have merlin firmware. If you are going to use it as a router any on the list will suffice, you just need to consider the features. 3rd party firmware is slower but thats because they cant use hardware acceleration. Without hardware acceleration the broadcom dualcore ARM does about 500Mb/s.

If you need stock performance but more features and stability go for asus and install merlin firmware. If you need stability and features but not the performance any of them will do with tomato or openwrt firmware. Merlin firmware is the easiest to install.

those dual core routers are only useful if you plan to run a lot of things on your router.

usb fan is only needed for those dual core ARM routers but can help any router.

 

[System Error Message]

there is an SFP module for coaxial cable but its not easy to find.

 

[mnm]

Thank you all for your help and advice!

Cheers!

 

[huotg01]

... 3rd party firmware is slower but thats because they cant use hardware acceleration. ...

Do you consider RMerlin as a 3rd party firmware ?

usb fan is only needed for those dual core ARM routers but can help any router.

Could you elaborate and document this assertion ? I'm asking because I have seen almost nothing about it. I own a 68u, and 3 friends own a 56u, and never we had to add a fan.

 

[System Error Message]

I forgot that merlin firmware keeps the same performance as stock but other firmwares like tomato, WRT variants dont.

As for the AC68u i had daily freezes and a fan fixed it. How long have you owned your router? It takes more than a year before it starts to happen and there are others who reported the same thing too. My stock temps were pretty high being close to 90C.

 

[huotg01]

I forgot that merlin firmware keeps the same performance as stock but other firmwares like tomato, WRT variants dont.

Please keep it in mind in you future comments...

As for the AC68u i had daily freezes and a fan fixed it. How long have you owned your router? It takes more than a year before it starts to happen and there are others who reported the same thing too. My stock temps were pretty high being close to 90C.

About a year. Honestly, I never heard anything about it. You have a few examples (from the forum)?

 

[huotg01]

As for the AC68u i had daily freezes and a fan fixed it. How long have you owned your router? It takes more than a year before it starts to happen and there are others who reported the same thing too. My stock temps were pretty high being close to 90C.

About a year. Honestly, I never heard anything about it. You have a few examples (from the forum)?

SEM
I know that you are very busy answering other posts, but please don't forget this question. Thanks.