Battery Backup or Surge Protector?

[Ronv42]

Since I have been involved with home automation since the mid 80's I know that surges comes from two places. One is the power grid which accounts for about 20 percent of the surges in the electrical wiring of a building. The remaining surges come from high load appliances when they cycle. The effect of the serge would be seen depending on what leg and circit the appliance is located on. You can think of this as a wave of energy coming down the wire to power say your blow dryer. Initilaly the circuit depeleted of energy as the appliance is engaged and then a inrush wave of energy fills the gap and re-levels out the line. When the appliance is turned off you get a overflow serge for a microsecond until the laws of physics levels it off.

The surge protection of most electroncs are designed to handle these types of ebbs and flows of the current but it't the big inrush ones that eventually take their toll on the equipment. I have always recommended dedicated ciruits for heavy draw appliances like furnaces, ac units, bathrooms and kitchen counters due to their potential demands to offset the balance to the other service points in the home.

I do use a two tier surge protection method. I have installed whole house serge protection at the entry box and this is relative inexpensive and most of the units self monitor and will light up a led as the MOV wears out if the unit is MOV based. At the local device level I may use a UPS to keep the power running but I also make sure the device soupports frequence filtering since this can cause more damage to electrionics vs. the actual surge. For devices that don't need a UPS but are still suppoting electronics is use a good frequency filtering protector and you should be good to go.

 

[westom]

So many bogus claims are obvious; made here without numbers or a reason why that anomaly might cause damage. For example, since major appliances are created surges, then we are all trooping to stores every day to replace clocks, dishwashers, bathroom and kitchen GFCIs, smoke detectors, TVs, dimmer switches, and other victims of those major appliances. Really. Did anyone notice all those unprotected appliances are not damaged?

Second, major appliances create tiny (single digit) voltage spikes called 'noise'. Single digit 'noise' is completely ignored by all protectors - prevoius numbers said why. Wild speculation (without numbers) is hyping a mythical fear.

That fear is promoted *subjectively* by plug-in manufacturers to increase profits. So many hype fears by ignoring spec numbers.

Third, UPS does provide surge protection. Then an informed consumer reads its numbers. Hundreds of joules is near zero protection. As discussed previously, it only protects from surges that do no damage. Near zero protection means virtually no protection. Near zero protection also means naive consumers will promote it as 100% protection. Again, urban myths created because so many ignore numbers.

Plug-in UPS and power strip protectors do not claim and cannot protect from destructive surges. Again the relevant question: where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Some here have recommended expensive solution that do not and could never answer that question. Some therefore have promoted the scam.

Fourth, any protector that protects by failing catastrophically is another scam. A previous post defines a protector that failed catastrophically - including a new risk - house fire. Effective protectors earth even direct lightnings strikes without damage. And remain functional for years. Ironically these superior protectors also cost tens of times less money. Some manufacturers sell protection. Others profit by successfully marketing near zero protectors that fail.

Fifth, unstable let-through voltage is another myth. Protector voltages are suppose to vary massively with the size of a surge current. A protector that might start protection at 330 volts on a tiny surge, will also protect at 800 volts on a larger surge. Above 900 volts (because that surge is even larger) means catastrophic failure - maybe a house fire. These are not unstable voltages. That is normal operation.

Sixth is the mythical 'tiered' protection. Protectors never provide protection. Effective protectors only connect to what does protection - earth ground. Any protector without an earth ground is 'no tier' or near zero protection. Informed consumers earth a 'whole house' protector. Then the 'secondary' protection layer exists. Each layer of protection is defined by earth ground - what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. 'Whole house' solution is the only 'tier' inside a house - the 'secondary' protection layer.

Informed consumers are strongly encouraged to also inspect another 'tier' - their 'primary' surge protection. Pictures demonstrate what to inspect:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

"frequence filtering" is another urban myth.

Any recommendation without numbers should be ignored. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Any recommendation that ignores that number is a potential scam. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Plug-in protectors and UPS have no such low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection; do not claim protection from destructive surges. Those near zero protectors even need to be protected by a properly earthed 'whole house' solution. Informed recommendations come with numbers.

 

[System Error Message]

So many bogus claims are obvious; made here without numbers or a reason why that anomaly might cause damage. For example, since major appliances are created surges, then we are all trooping to stores every day to replace clocks, dishwashers, bathroom and kitchen GFCIs, smoke detectors, TVs, dimmer switches, and other victims of those major appliances. Really. Did anyone notice all those unprotected appliances are not damaged?

Second, major appliances create tiny (single digit) voltage spikes called 'noise'. Single digit 'noise' is completely ignored by all protectors - prevoius numbers said why. Wild speculation (without numbers) is hyping a mythical fear.

That fear is promoted *subjectively* by plug-in manufacturers to increase profits. So many hype fears by ignoring spec numbers.

Third, UPS does provide surge protection. Then an informed consumer reads its numbers. Hundreds of joules is near zero protection. As discussed previously, it only protects from surges that do no damage. Near zero protection means virtually no protection. Near zero protection also means naive consumers will promote it as 100% protection. Again, urban myths created because so many ignore numbers.

Plug-in UPS and power strip protectors do not claim and cannot protect from destructive surges. Again the relevant question: where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. Some here have recommended expensive solution that do not and could never answer that question. Some therefore have promoted the scam.

Fourth, any protector that protects by failing catastrophically is another scam. A previous post defines a protector that failed catastrophically - including a new risk - house fire. Effective protectors earth even direct lightnings strikes without damage. And remain functional for years. Ironically these superior protectors also cost tens of times less money. Some manufacturers sell protection. Others profit by successfully marketing near zero protectors that fail.

Fifth, unstable let-through voltage is another myth. Protector voltages are suppose to vary massively with the size of a surge current. A protector that might start protection at 330 volts on a tiny surge, will also protect at 800 volts on a larger surge. Above 900 volts (because that surge is even larger) means catastrophic failure - maybe a house fire. These are not unstable voltages. That is normal operation.

Sixth is the mythical 'tiered' protection. Protectors never provide protection. Effective protectors only connect to what does protection - earth ground. Any protector without an earth ground is 'no tier' or near zero protection. Informed consumers earth a 'whole house' protector. Then the 'secondary' protection layer exists. Each layer of protection is defined by earth ground - what harmlessly absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. 'Whole house' solution is the only 'tier' inside a house - the 'secondary' protection layer.

Informed consumers are strongly encouraged to also inspect another 'tier' - their 'primary' surge protection. Pictures demonstrate what to inspect:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

"frequence filtering" is another urban myth.

Any recommendation without numbers should be ignored. Protection is always about where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed. Any recommendation that ignores that number is a potential scam. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Plug-in protectors and UPS have no such low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection; do not claim protection from destructive surges. Those near zero protectors even need to be protected by a properly earthed 'whole house' solution. Informed recommendations come with numbers.

Any fused plug will dissipate that energy from a big surge by melting and breaking the circuit. The energy is simply transferred into heat. That is why you see fuses in a lot of things and that they are cheap. They are just an effective sacrificial protection against big surges such as lightning. Stop saying that there isnt a protection from a surge protected plug. Open one up and show us that metal box used to protect circuits. From the main switch to your device there are various fuses in play to protect against surges of different magnitudes.

In a well grounded circuit excess energy is transferred to the ground.

 

[westom]

Any fused plug will dissipate that energy from a big surge by melting and breaking the circuit. The energy is simply transferred into heat.

That assumption violates so many numbers. Point is that most recommend without even basic electrical knowledge. But these people are quickly identified - claims are made by ignoring numbers.

Numbers - a fuse takes milliseconds or longer to trip (just like circuit breakers). A surge does damage in microseconds. 300 consecutive surges could pass through a fuse before it even decides to blow. A famous equation defines this - the I squared T rule. Numbers and equation say something different.

More numbers - fuses have a voltage number. For example, a fuse may be 32 volts (for cars) or 250 volts (for AC power). A voltage that exceeds that number means even a blown fuse continues conducting current. Surges easily exceed that 250 volt number. More numbers that say why a fuse can never do what only speculation suggested.

More numbers. Connection to earth ground (which is completely and electrically different from digital ground, chassis ground, receptacle safety ground, floating ground, and ground beneath shoes) must be low impedance. That means less than 10 foot connection, no sharp wire bends, not inside metallic conduit, etc. Ground at an appliance is not earth ground - obviously. Protection is about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate in 'earth' ground.

The naive assume all grounds are same. If true, then connect a protector to a motherboard's digital ground to have protection. Or learn why numbers define all grounds as different. Protection means a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to a unique ground: single point earth ground. All four words have electrical significance.

Informed homeowners direct less money (per protected appliance) at the other and effective solution - properly earthed 'whole house' protection. A protector that also does not fail even after direct lightning strikes (ie at least 50,000 amps). Since protector failure is also recommended by same hearsay that promoted fuses as surge protectors.

 

[stevech]

the plug-strip "surge protectors" are marketing hype. B.S.
They have no energy storage means as does a UPS.
Their dampening of "surges" are for at most for far less than 1 millisecond. That's all MOVs can do.

These aren't useful for
Lightening strikes, not direct as those need a spark gap protector, but induced from a strike in the near vicinity.
Power grid glitches that you can see in the home's lighting. If you can see lights blink, it's 100mSec or more and a plug strip is no help.

I have a 1500VA UPS ($150 or less). It runs my main desktop PC & monitor, router, cable modem, main ethernet switch, NAS, WiFi router. Well worth it.
many times I've seen the lights glitch but all this UPS protected gear is unaffected. My non-UPS always-on HTPC usually reboots due to such a glitch.

 

[coxhaus]

I don't think anything will protect you from a lightening strike. APC in the old days did offer $25,000 in protection insurance for down stream equipment.

I have seen many locks up with computer equipment, routers, and etc, when lights flicker. Running an APC UPS stops it cold. When the power goes off you are limited to the amount of battery power you have. After that the UPS shuts off. My APC UPS will issue a shutdown code to my server so it can perform a proper shutdown before the batteries run down. You do need to estimate the amps on a circuit to make sure you don't overload the circuit which you can create your own brown outs. I run a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my computer closet with a rack mount APC 1400 watt UPS. I have very good up times providing power company does their job.

I am not an electronics guy but I have an 8 foot copper ground rod by my outside breaker box. My understanding this is the best you can do for a ground in a residence. Maybe drill a bigger hole for the ground rod and add special electrolytes to form a better ground than dirt. I use dirt.

 

[sfx2000]

Hi guys, I have my Asus RT-AC3100 and my Motorola SB6183 in an area by themselves. There is a printer I have there as well so they are the only 3 things going to be hooked up. I want to get either a surge protector or battery backup that has the cable connections to run the cable in and out of for the modem as well. I am just curious if most of you just use a good surge protector for their equipment or if you get a good battery backup with voltage regulation and stuff like that? I am looking at a few different cyberpower battery backups, but was just curious what most of you guys do or suggest?

I also could be adding an NAS down the road.

Getting back to the question - many UPS are also surge protectors (check with the vendor to be sure)...

With surge protection - not just the main power, but also consider the broadband (UTP or Coax) -

Had a friend that got a nearby lightning strike, his surge protector saved the main power, but the coax took the hit, blew out the cable modem, traveled down the ethernet to the AP, blew it out, along with the ethernet NIC card on his desktop PC...

Lightning is funny/odd...

I'm currently running an APC BackUPS Pro BR1000G - had to upgrade as my NAS* takes a while to shutdown (over 5 minutes) - plus it does surge suppression/power conditioning, and protects the coax.... a little spendy at $180 MSRP**, but shop around and can find it less...

* QNAP TS-453Pro, and this is a supported UPS by QNAP..
** Amazon has them for around $130

Batteries are an expected maint cost over the life cycle, expect to replace about every 3 years or so...

 

[System Error Message]

That assumption violates so many numbers. Point is that most recommend without even basic electrical knowledge. But these people are quickly identified - claims are made by ignoring numbers.

Numbers - a fuse takes milliseconds or longer to trip (just like circuit breakers). A surge does damage in microseconds. 300 consecutive surges could pass through a fuse before it even decides to blow. A famous equation defines this - the I squared T rule. Numbers and equation say something different.

More numbers - fuses have a voltage number. For example, a fuse may be 32 volts (for cars) or 250 volts (for AC power). A voltage that exceeds that number means even a blown fuse continues conducting current. Surges easily exceed that 250 volt number. More numbers that say why a fuse can never do what only speculation suggested.

More numbers. Connection to earth ground (which is completely and electrically different from digital ground, chassis ground, receptacle safety ground, floating ground, and ground beneath shoes) must be low impedance. That means less than 10 foot connection, no sharp wire bends, not inside metallic conduit, etc. Ground at an appliance is not earth ground - obviously. Protection is about where hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate in 'earth' ground.

The naive assume all grounds are same. If true, then connect a protector to a motherboard's digital ground to have protection. Or learn why numbers define all grounds as different. Protection means a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to a unique ground: single point earth ground. All four words have electrical significance.

Informed homeowners direct less money (per protected appliance) at the other and effective solution - properly earthed 'whole house' protection. A protector that also does not fail even after direct lightning strikes (ie at least 50,000 amps). Since protector failure is also recommended by same hearsay that promoted fuses as surge protectors.

and that is why there are also other protections. circuit breakers do break the circuit quickly on a surge and there are other forms of protection as well. Sure some brands would make bogus claims but open up the plug to check. I also have talked about proper earthing and such already. Before you go on babbling simply look at the plugs that many appliances use. ASUS routers and other consumer routers use 2 pin plugs, TVs also use 2 pin plugs so it really makes earthing useless except for higher wattage appliances.

The problem is that many of you are saying that there isnt really any proper protection out there and that all the brands are just making bogus claims and fear marketing. A lot of these surge protectors do work such as with RMerlin's case and i can vouch that they do work too because i used to live in an area riddled with lightning that even 3 UPS died prematurely. The worse that lightning did was take out the modem but it didnt take out any PCs and that was before surge protection.

Saying that a fuse lets 300 of milliseconds of damage through sounds like one of those fear mongering marketers when really there are circuit breakers that break the circuit even faster. a circuit breaker too sensitive will break each time you turn something on that has an inrush current. Inrush currents are harmless to devices but become harmful if multiple devices are on the same plug. You see PCs lasting longer than routers because PC PSUs have grounding on them while routers dont so they dont have anywhere else to send excess energy. There is a lot to protection that PC PSUs have started glorifying their features. There are also different grades of fuses that work at different amps and different timings. If a fuse burnt too quickly everytime you turned something on it would burn from inrush current. A fuse does melt quicker when given an even larger current than an inrush current.

There are more than numbers such as surge protectors with circuit breakers, capacitors and so on. Protector failure isnt hearsay, its a fact, take a glorified PC PSU for example, it will fail when hit by a surge in order to protect the components connected to it.

 

[westom]

Bogus recommendations come without numbers. What follows? More urban myths posted without numbers.

For example power strip claims to absorb maybe 1000 joules. A UPS typically only a much smaller 'hundreds'. That UPS manufacturer says that it absorb less energy. And still another claims UPSes will absorb more energy.

Surge damage was described:

... but the coax took the hit, blew out the cable modem, traveled down the ethernet to the AP, blew it out, along with the ethernet NIC card on his desktop PC.

Then add facts. Coax cable already has superior protection - a low impedance connection to earth. So why did a surge enter on that properly protected coax? It didn't. AC electric is the most common incoming path - if an earthed 'whole house' protector does not exist.

An adjacent protector would bypass (compromise) a computer's AC line protection - the incoming path. Outgoing path can be a computer's (and AP's) ethernet port. Damage is often on the outgoing path - not on an incoming one. Surge current continues into a modem's ethernet port. And destructively out via its coax connection.

A direct lighting strike maybe far down the street was incoming to a protector, computer, and AP. Destructively via modem to earth via its properly installed cable. Damage was on outgoing paths (ie NIC and modem's cable connection)

Unfortunately many 'know' by ignoring superior protection installed for free by the cable company. And by not learning that damage is often on the outgoing path. The most often source of destructive currents is a utility not required to have protection - AC electric.

Lightning is not funny or odd. Odd are so many humans who ignore or deny facts and numbers. Most common reason for surge damage is human mistakes.

Protection from lightning is easy. Trying to get a human to read specifications and learn facts sometimes seems impossible.

Another mistake assumes one earth ground rod is the best one can do. Equipotential and conductivity are the 'art' of protection. Simple techniques to improve earthing (including and not limited to more rods) significantly improves protection. Protection is defined mostly by that earthing - not by a protector. Upgrading earthing is easy - if one ignores

Another myth: a warranty indicates quality. If true, then GM products are many times more reliable than Toyota and Honda. Reality. Good luck getting a $25,000 warranty honored. Read its fine print. Exemptions are so numerous that to get a claim honored is virtually impossible. So many have learned this the hard way. No reason to quote them.

Why would they honor a $25,000 warranty when their protector does not even claim to protect from destructive surges? Fine print exemptions and near zero joules mean that warranty targets naive consumers.

If MOVs do not protect from lightning, then why do datasheets define MOVs in terms of lightning parameters (ie the 8/20 usec transient)? MOV are best devices to protect from lightning - when in a properly designed and sufficiently sized 'whole house' protectors.

Unfortunately, most only see near zero MOVs inside obscenely overpriced plug-in protectors that fail catastrophically. Fail because those protectors are so grossly undersized to increase profits. Not because it uses MOVs.

UPS and power strip protectors also need protection provided by a proven and properly earthed 'whole house' protection.

 

[westom]

The problem is that many of you are saying that there isnt really any proper protection out there and that all the brands are just making bogus claims and fear marketing.

Does he read what is actually written? Earlier post never said, "a fuse lets 300 of milliseconds of damage". That phrase is nonsense.

The phrase was simple. 3oo consecutive surges could pass through that fuse before it even thought about blowing.

Nobody said, "there isnt really any proper protection". A proven solution was defined, with numbers, to protect from direct lightning strikes. This proven solution costs about $1 per protected appliance. Proven for over 100 years. Anyone reading to learn (rather than "babble") would have learned what is relevant - where hundreds of thousands of joules are harmlessly absorbed.

How does a millimeters gap in a circuit breaker or other disconnecting part stop a surge? How does a millimeters gap block what three miles of sky could not? When confronted by damning examples, then the naive use words such as "babble" to ignore reality. To achieve any sufficient gap (in microseconds) means contacts (disconnections) must open at supersonic speeds. Obviously that will happen when pigs fly.

More examples. Never earth a victim. Always earth the surge. Earthing a PSU means a best path to earth is destructively via that PSU and computer. What kind of protection is that?

Contacts open at supersonic speeds. Miracle 250 volt fuses block thousands of volts. PSU can earth direct lighting strikes without damage. Millimeter gaps stop miles of lightning. Cherry picking: surge protectors must work because other appliances without surge protectors were undamaged. Or did those appliances have invisible protectors? More bad science fiction?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

This is comparing apples to buffalo wings to napkins. A unit that has problems due to software failures has no relationship to another that has hardware failures. Both symptoms must be discussed separately. Especially since a power strip protector is only for hardware protection whereas a UPS is only for software protection.

Furthermore, UPS here refers to a plug-in adjacent unit - not building wide or 3000 watt rack mounted UPS that is electrically different - that performs different functions - that contains other functions.

.

It is not comparing apples to buffalo wings (although I'd eat all the buffalo wings..huge fan of super hot ones).
Ever notice that slight dips in power on a computer can cause it to hang, hard lock, blue screen? It's not very different with network gear. They have a CPU, they have RAM, they have a basic operating system. Add to the mix...they are (especially residential grade ones) made on the cheapest hardware platforms possible. Including power supplies. And super cheap capacitors, and other electronics. There's no comparing the stability of one of those under fluctuating power conditions to network hardware/computer hardware. And I specifically mentioned the small "workstation class" UPS units, I mentioned the 350 or 550 sized units are ideal for this, not the large 3000 units I put in server racks. I only mentioned those as the only cases where I saw battery damage.

"Conclusion based on observation" as you say...yes I can claim quite a bit of that, as I've been building and supporting networks for almost 20 years, as a living. Not just a home hobbyist that only has experience with a couple of router changes in his/her own home. I also have training over the nearly 2 decades which has taught me a lot of "best practices", as well as some education in the "science behind it" from various battery backup manufacturers (a decent amount when APC was headquartered 45 minutes from my house and I'd be there often and work close with sales reps)

 

[System Error Message]

im pretty sure from various different experiences of others where surges had happened that the surge protector protected the devices behind while the ones that werent got taken out (if you read the forums you will find posts of people looking for new routers to replace the ones that werent protected). So at times a company will quote numbers in order to sell at a higher price but all you have to do is really just compare the spec sheet such as the materials used for the fuse and the grades, the sensitivity of the circuit breaker, the delay in switching and so on based on what protection features it has and such. When you buy a PC PSU and look at the protection features you would have to look at the spec sheet too to see how is it implemented (some use an active circuit with a chip, some use a passive component, etc). For example a PSU to charge phones has a very fast switching circuit to convert AC to DC and other components in them so some have extra components, some dont and is often the difference between prices and why peoples phones explode or that someone actually died from a cheap one. So there are various stages in electrical protection.

YeOldeStonecat has a point about cheaply made PSUs because a desktop PSU that has more stuff in it or basically higher grade include additional protection and stabilising the electricity. So disregarding the amount of posts that are saying that the manufacturers use fear mongering or such, and while there are numbers, for the same protection there are various grades, various materials all used for different places. Regarding earth protection from a desktop PSU, in the past have you noticed laptops with metal bodies getting charged? If you look at the PSU of it you'll see that it is actually not earth (has 2 pins only) and this allows a build up of current around the device while earthing it would discharge it.

Although there are standards for electricity, all countries have different standards and different qualities. Power distribution outside the US can be bad. I really hate it when people only localise themselves to the US instead of thinking how it works globally. Surge protectors, UPS and such all have an actual usefulness and the the main point is to buy the right type of protection you need, to look properly at the product and to see if it actually does have the right grade of protection.

Regarding 300ms of surge statement, if such a fuse was designed for that (fuses really have different materials and grades that respond differently to things) than the difference is between a 300ms damage and the whole current. Protection usually has multiple stages that can sometimes work together. The most important part of protection was to prevent harm to a person, not the device itself but because of how some devices are important to keep working so they invented even more protection for that. Some really bulky surge protectors that look like PSUs really do have stabilisation in them so they are a cheaper alternative to a UPS when you want the power to be stabilised. Unless a UPS is actually built to keep the electricity stable and filter out noise all it would do is switch between battery and mains but in the case where there is unstable power (gaps and such) a UPS with a really fast switching time will actually help or a surge protector with a that in mind.

This may be relevant and an interesting read. http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-surge-protector/
So while some may lie about numbers (which is why im usually uninterested in numbers and go to the low level details such as materials and such.) Looking for a test helps. We should change SNB to SCB.

 

[stevech]

Surge protector plug strips are IMO as a veteran engineer, marketing B.S.
A UPS is valuable.

 

[westom]

"Conclusion based on observation" as you say...yes I can claim quite a bit of that, as I've been building and supporting networks for almost 20 years, as a living. Not just a home hobbyist that only has experience with a couple of router changes in his/her own home. I also have training over the nearly 2 decades which has taught me a lot of "best practices", as well as some education in the "science behind it" ...

With double your experience as a hardware engineer (long predating PCs), properly designed computers (even home PC and older technologies) have circuits that detect "voltage too low". Then its power controller responds accordingly.

Servers have additional protection to make software lockups impossible. An IC that does that costs tens of pennies. Is routine in servers and in real-time hardware. If your hardware does not do that, then defective hardware was selected.

Without that knowledge, then observation cannot make an informed decision. Useful conclusions means observation must be combined with that hardware knowledge.

None of that discussion addresses the OP's request. Did power dips cause hardware damage? No. Twenty years experience should know the different between software crashes and hardware damage. As noted from the beginning, UPS is for protecting unsaved data (home PCs) or maintaining power during a blackout (server farm). UPS does not do or claim to do hardware protection.

Subjective and deceptive claims from System Error Message, et al claim low voltage causes hardware damage. Yes to motorized appliances. So they should be recommending a UPS for every refrigerator, dishwasher, etc. Their recommendations were made without numbers. A first indication that those recommendations are best ignored.

The OP asked about a surge protector or battery backup for hardware protection. Those are for two completely different and unrelated anomalies. UPS does not provide hardware protection. Low voltage does not damage properly designed electronics. UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved. It does nothing for hardware protection - a completely different topic.

Surge protector that actually does surge protection is for hardware protection. This proven solution typically costs about $1 per protected appliance. Necessary to even protect a UPS and plug-in protector. Neither a UPS nor plug-in protector does nor claims to do what the OP has asked for. Your observations do not contradict that.

Again a relevant number. Bulbs must dim to less than 50% intensity. If voltage does not drop that low, then properly designed electronics work uninterrupted. A recommendation supported by many relevant numbers - from someone who actually knows how hardware really works - and why it can be damaged.

 

[coxhaus]

There must be some difference in quality since some of the UPS cost $100 and some of the APC Smart UPS cost $1000.

 

[azazel1024]

So...on the UPS front, get small. You don't need a 600w UPS unless you are planning to plug something like a full up computer in to it (and heck, even them my i5-3570+GTX750 only pulls about 160w max, add in 25w for the monitor and I am still below half the rating).

I would suggest a more basic 250/350w Cyberpower unit. I have a 350w Cyberpower for my (lightweight) server and switches and I can get about 90 minutes of runtime on it with the server idling along. It was $45 and has served me well the last 2 years of only semi-reliable grid power.

 

[westom]

There must be some difference in quality since some of the UPS cost $100 and some of the APC Smart UPS cost $1000.

Added features of the Smart UPS do not do anything more for a residential computer. For example, reducing harmonics in the so called 'pure sine wave' means tens of pound of heavy and expensive filters that also means a battery must be larger (due to losses created by that filter and other reasons).

Another feature is an internal UPS computer that can talk to the USB port to tell an attached computer to shutdown. More hardware and additional software increases costs.

A more expensive UPS might also have a better battery recharge system so that the battery lasts more than 3 years. But that may not be in an inexpensive $1000 UPS.

A homeowner only needs temporary and 'dirty' power for a rare blackout. To save unsaved data. Such blackouts are rare. And occur even less often when some document is not yet saved.

Electric companies now have outage maps. Some consumers still have internet during a blackout. So a UPS does what is already inside every laptop - provide access to the internet and outage map to know that a power company knows of your outage, how many consumers are involved, and when power will be restored. Maybe another reasons to have a UPS - because a laptop is not available.

But again, a $1000 UPS is not needed to do what what a $100 UPS does just as well.

 

[coxhaus]

I like my 70 pound UPS. It will shutdown my Windows server when I am not at home. I have an expansion box which will shutdown multiple servers not just one.

As long as I don't overload my UPS I get about 5 years out of a set of batteries. I have owned my APC 1400 Smart UPS rack mount for 10 years without any problems other than replacing batteries. The UPS is on a 3 wire plug on a dedicated 20 amp circuit to my outside breaker box which is connected to a 8 foot copper ground rod. This seems to handle anything I put in my rack at home.

 

[alarsen77]

I didn't mean to start a crazy debate. I was just looking for a suggestion on which way to go and what units are recommended. I honestly don't understand half of the scientific part behind it that you guys are explaining and really don't care to. I just wanted a suggestion of what would be a good solution without spending a crazy amount of money. I've always liked having a UPS system but wasn't sure if it was necessary for my router and modem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[westom]

I didn't mean to start a crazy debate. I was just looking for a suggestion on which way to go and what units are recommended.

Where was a debate? Posted were recommendations based upon feelings. Verses recommendation based in experience, science, manufacturer specifications, and other numbers.

Recommendation based in how reality works are obvious. Said with numbers. Any recommendation that does not include 'facts that say why' is best filtered out - ignored.

Somehow you have confused a surge protector with UPS. Those are for two completely and unrelated anomalies. Posts without numbers and reasons why associate a UPS same as a surge protector. Even the manufacturer says it is near zero protection. Read its numbers. Ignore hearsay.

Which anomaly concerns you? Long before accepting recommendations; define a problem. Well, only posts with number and reasons why defined the various anomalies. Do you need operations even during a blackout? Then a UPS is needed. Do you need to protect hardware from transients that can overwhelm protection inside appliances? Then a properly earthed 'whole house' solution is needed. Do you need protection from completely different transients that typically cause no hardware damage? Then a plug-in protector is recommended.

Where is the debate? All this was defined with reasons why. Which anomaly caused you angst? For example, which anomaly is causing clock, dishwasher, smoke detector, recharging mobile phone, refrigerator, and GFCI damage daily? Or do you want protection from something that actually does damage - maybe once every seven years? Only useful recommendations provide recommendations with numbers.

How often each day do you replace various appliances (ie GFCIs, smoke detectors) due to no UPS or surge protector? Computers are typically more robust than many other appliance. Appreciate why facilities that cannot have damage always earth the many times les expensive 'whole house' solution. And why a UPS (with near zero protection) or a plug-in surge protector is not permitted in many such facilities.

Many reasons that also said why (found only in some posts) made that distinction. Is it not yet obvious?