Battery Backup or Surge Protector?

[alarsen77]

Where was a debate? Posted were recommendations based upon feelings. Verses recommendation based in experience, science, manufacturer specifications, and other numbers.

Recommendation based in how reality works are obvious. Said with numbers. Any recommendation that does not include 'facts that say why' is best filtered out - ignored.

Somehow you have confused a surge protector with UPS. Those are for two completely and unrelated anomalies. Posts without numbers and reasons why associate a UPS same as a surge protector. Even the manufacturer says it is near zero protection. Read its numbers. Ignore hearsay.

Which anomaly concerns you? Long before accepting recommendations; define a problem. Well, only posts with number and reasons why defined the various anomalies. Do you need operations even during a blackout? Then a UPS is needed. Do you need to protect hardware from transients that can overwhelm protection inside appliances? Then a properly earthed 'whole house' solution is needed. Do you need protection from completely different transients that typically cause no hardware damage? Then a plug-in protector is recommended.

Where is the debate? All this was defined with reasons why. Which anomaly caused you angst? For example, which anomaly is causing clock, dishwasher, smoke detector, recharging mobile phone, refrigerator, and GFCI damage daily? Or do you want protection from something that actually does damage - maybe once every seven years? Only useful recommendations provide recommendations with numbers.

How often each day do you replace various appliances (ie GFCIs, smoke detectors) due to no UPS or surge protector? Computers are typically more robust than many other appliance. Appreciate why facilities that cannot have damage always earth the many times les expensive 'whole house' solution. And why a UPS (with near zero protection) or a plug-in surge protector is not permitted in many such facilities.

Many reasons that also said why (found only in some posts) made that distinction. Is it not yet obvious?

Once again I don't pretend to understand half of the terminology or scientific reasoning just looking for specific recommendations of battery back ups or surge protectors to use not a lesson on what it is or how it works which should somehow help me figure out what that means to me.

Apparently that wasn't too clear in my original or last post


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[westom]

Once again I don't pretend to understand half of the terminology or scientific reasoning just looking for specific recommendations of battery back ups or surge protectors to use not a lesson on what it is or how it works which should somehow help me figure out what that means to me.

There is no scientific reasoning. It was all layman simple. Maybe read fourth and fifth paragraphs below to understand more.

1) Do blackouts cause concern? Solution is a UPS to only protect data. Why is that not obvious?

2) Do transients, that cause no damage, cause you fear? Then a plug-in protector is recommended.

3) Do transients, that can damage any appliance, concern you? These occur maybe once every seven years. Are only avert by properly earthing a 'whole house' solution. Why is that difficult?

Adults that can be scammed only await someone to tell then how to think. Which is you? Above is the executive summary. Repeats only what was said how many times - with numbers? If anything is new, then it makes no sense until read at least three times. We all learned that in school.

Nobody can help if you do not ask specific questions. That last post implies you are waiting for someone to tell you how to think - are awaiting brainwashing. A proactive solution means learning each paragraph one at a time by - if necessary - asking questions. Any post that says "I do not understand - and nothing more" says that one does not want to learn. One must ask questions.

Posted were layman simple answers -once you delete every post that does not say why and that is missing numbers. As every layman was suppose to learn in school: if it is new, then at least three rereads are required to understand.

 

[System Error Message]

did anyone even bother to read the link i posted? Most of you are still spewing conflicting facts as if you never even bother to read it. I think the link is important since it compares various different surge protectors, differences, and a bit on materials, energy absorption and the lifespan of a surge protector. You can quote numbers all you like but theres no point if you dont understand it especially the drawbacks between them i.e. high energy absorption doesnt lower the voltage much comparing between surges.

The simple thing with surge protection is, when lightning hits, circuit breaks but the extra energy is absorbed by surge protector and any extra the surge protector cannot take ends up being passed to equipment. Some surge protectors include smoothing of electricity/noise filtering.

A UPS switches between mains and battery when power is lost but there is a gap when no energy is supplied so tiny that it is seen as a screen flicker if you have a monitor plugged in. Not all UPS has surge protection so it is really up to you to do the research so i suggest that either stop arguing and start giving advice about how different numbers affect performance and how to for surge protection or close this thread.

Go read up tests that has been done on these things. I know a few sites already scientifically tests desktop PSUs so there are the same for these things too.

 

[coxhaus]

There is probably a different need for a rack full of equipment and a single machine and maybe a switch or so. Only you can decide what you need. What I always did is figure the amps and add a little. To figure the watts for a machine, is I look up the CPU power draw, add the hard drive or drives, add the memory and motherboard. If it is a game machine then add the video card which never goes in my rack. All of the watts are published. Then look up each device. I never add a laser printer to a UPS. The power draw is too high, not worth in my mind. So I think you have all the basics you just need to calculate and decide.

PS
I don't add the monitor to my UPS in my server rack because the servers automatically shut down.

 

[RMerlin]

I think what the OP meant is he just asked for a recommendation, and he received an engineering discussion that is so long and so complicated that it's not really helping him in any way in taking a decision. He's a home user, not a system administrator working in a datacenter and trying to build a business case for a board meeting. Things could have been summed up quite simply:

If you can afford it, spend a bit more on an UPS, it will provide better protection. Otherwise, a quality surge protector will still be better than no protection at all if budget is an issue.

A lot of people tend to skip posts that are too long to read.

 

[coxhaus]

You have to admit the title for the thread was very broad.

 

[alarsen77]

I think what the OP meant is he just asked for a recommendation, and he received an engineering discussion that is so long and so complicated that it's not really helping him in any way in taking a decision. He's a home user, not a system administrator working in a datacenter and trying to build a business case for a board meeting. Things could have been summed up quite simply:

If you can afford it, spend a bit more on an UPS, it will provide better protection. Otherwise, a quality surge protector will still be better than no protection at all if budget is an issue.

A lot of people tend to skip posts that are too long to read.

Exactly!!!! Thank you for understanding. I'm most likely going to go the UPS route and am ok spending $100-$150 so any recommendations on specific models?


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[alarsen77]

You have to admit the title for the thread was very broad.

I thought titles are supposed to broad that's what the first post is for right? I figured by my first post saying it will just be a couple of items people would understand this is for home use and not an elaborate business use.


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[thiggins]

I thought titles are supposed to broad that's what the first post is for right? I figured by my first post saying it will just be a couple of items people would understand this is for home use and not an elaborate business use.

Your title was fine. Some of our members like to display their technical chops a tad too often...
Such is life on internet forums.

 

[alarsen77]

Your title was fine. Some of our members like to display their technical chops a tad too often...
Such is life on internet forums.

I know it happens a lot on the internet but I hadn't checked in on the thread in a day or so and come back to all sorts of technical details when I was just looking for suggestions on specific battery backup or surge protectors.


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[sfx2000]

Your title was fine. Some of our members like to display their technical chops a tad too often..

Slow weekend I guess

 

[RMerlin]

Exactly!!!! Thank you for understanding. I'm most likely going to go the UPS route and am ok spending $100-$150 so any recommendations on specific models?


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No specific model as I haven't researched them, but with that budget I would look for a reputable brand such as APC. They also have good Linux support for monitoring.

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[htismaqe]

I have a couple of APC Back-UPS, one's a 550 and the other is a 750. We have frequent 2-3 second blackouts here so I have the 550W supporting my iMac and one small ethernet switch in my office. The 750 protects the main hub in the house, which contains my fiber NID, wireless router, a couple of switches, and my NAS. They serve their purpose and weren't very expensive in the grand scheme of things.

 

[CaptainSTX]

I know it happens a lot on the internet but I hadn't checked in on the thread in a day or so and come back to all sorts of technical details when I was just looking for suggestions on specific battery backup or surge protectors.


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One feature to look for is the ability to switch off the main power off alert beeper. Nothing worse than a wife with good hearing waking you up in the middle of the night complaining about the incessant beeping from the UPS when the power is out.

My wife isn't the only person to complain about the beeping. In other UPS forums it is a key feature people are looking for. The alert can't easily be silenced on some/many UPS so check the specs carefully. As much as I tried to modify the first UPS I had with foam, cotton, etc. it still made enough noise for my wife to hear so I had to replace it.

 

[alarsen77]

One feature to look for is the ability to switch off the main power off alert beeper. Nothing worse than a wife with good hearing waking you up in the middle of the night complaining about the incessant beeping from the UPS when the power is out.

My wife isn't the only person to complain about the beeping. In other UPS forums it is a key feature people are looking for. The alert can't easily be silenced on some/many UPS so check the specs carefully. As much as I tried to modify the first UPS I had with foam, cotton, etc. it still made enough noise for my wife to hear so I had to replace it.

That is definitely something I will be looking for.

 

[coxhaus]

One feature to look for is the ability to switch off the main power off alert beeper. Nothing worse than a wife with good hearing waking you up in the middle of the night complaining about the incessant beeping from the UPS when the power is out.

My wife isn't the only person to complain about the beeping. In other UPS forums it is a key feature people are looking for. The alert can't easily be silenced on some/many UPS so check the specs carefully. As much as I tried to modify the first UPS I had with foam, cotton, etc. it still made enough noise for my wife to hear so I had to replace it.

I don't know, as I like to know if there is a power outage. I would rather hear it than not know. I am not one for setting up a log and having to check it every day. Sounds like work.

 

[alarsen77]

I don't know, as I like to know if there is a power outage. I would rather hear it than not know. I am not one for setting up a log and having to check it every day. Sounds like work.

Well considering the rest of the house won't be on a battery backup, I am pretty sure I would know that power is out if I am awake due to the lights being out. But if I were sleeping and it was just running my router and modem I wouldn't want to hear a beeping either.

 

[coxhaus]

I have 1 of my 3 wireless WAPs around the house and some other equipment which is not on battery backup that needs to be reset. Two of my wireless units are POE and run off my main UPS but the far one is not yet on battery so it needs to be rebooted. Once I get my CAT5e cable run then it will be on the same main battery backup.

I live in a small town that is growing lately and the power company has been down a lot lately and several for hours at a time. Lately since I have retired and not running all the extra servers and routers, I get about 2 hours of run time out of my APC Smart UPS and it has been off probably 3 times in the last 2 years.

If the power is flickering then I like to unplug stuff like my tube stereo, maybe the refrigerator and freezer. I even turn the AC off so all these devices do not get hammered by the power company and burn out.

So I like knowing.

 

[stevech]

confusing a surge protector with a UPS is what the plug strip marketeers want.
I define a surge as a power glitch that you can SEE in the lighting of the home. It's usually reverse-surge, a decline in voltage for 1/10th of a second or so.
A plug strip has no energy storage, so it is of no help for such a glitch.

 

[coxhaus]

Maybe it is called inrush. Compressors do not like to be started and stopped lot quickly.